Benefit of a streamer?

[iMark]

I am convinced that active, wireless, streaming speakers are the way of the future. Sonos already make them. Actives are already becoming more commonplace.

I am sure there will be post after post from readers about why they will never give up their separates, but there are real advantages in buying a complete solution. The chances of a home user being able to assemble a collection of separates to match a well engineered single box solution are small. When I last bought a car, it came with engine, gearbox and suspension already installed - each designed and optimised to work together.

Why not speakers / amps / dacs / streamers ?

You're probably right. But I went completely the other way. I want to use existing equipment (my stereo) and stream to that. For us the most convenient way is an Airport Express and a DAC. The great thing about the DAC is that it can also be used by our TV with optical out.

Our music is stored on a HDD that is connected to my MacBook. I can use an iPad as a remote control and we can stream Spotify from the iPad as well. Almost all of our CDs have been ripped to ALAC. The music streamed through the Airport Express and the DAC sounds as good or better as the last dedicated CD player I had.

I'm not sure if a Sonos set would sound as good as our stereo setup. It certainly wouldn't play our vinyl.

The Airport Express is a rather nifty device. We have used it in hotels where there was only wired internet to set up a wireless network. I don't think there is competition for that on the market. The only thing I don't like about the Airport Express is that it's limited to 16/48. If it could stream hires files it would be even better.

 

[manicm]

Overdose and andyjm - yes a PC is all very well and good but you did not really address my concerns. Overdose - with the money I spend on a Mac Mini I'd rather put that down to a dedicated streamer. I already have a laptop, a Blu-ray player, a LCD, so what else would I do with another computer? Yes, a Mac Mini could bring me remote control but I don't want the sonic compromises of Airplay etc.

It's not a matter of technical superiority of one option against another, it's down to personal preferences and needs. And I prefer a dedicated streamer or a variation thereof ala Sonos, or Cyrus - who give a myriad of options. Pricey yes, but I'm willing to save up even over a number of years to get the system I want. I just don't see a PC in that system - yet. You could say I've burnt my fingers yes, but I see a good hifi as a long-lasting emotional and lifestyle investment and I'd be willing to spend on something that's right from the get-go.

It's just horses for courses really.

 

[Craig M.]

Yes, a Mac Mini could bring me remote control but I don't want the sonic compromises of Airplay etc.

Store your music on the mini's internal drive and pipe straight into the dac of your choice. No need to use Airplay, nice to have the option to click on a Spotify or Youtube etc. link, for example, on your laptop and stream via Airplay to your hifi at the touch of a button, though.

The only benefit to me of a streamer would be the potential to buy something that matched the rest of my kit visually. But that would mean owning a load of Cyrus, Naim, Linn, etc. :hand:

 

[The_Lhc]

I'm not sure if a Sonos set would sound as good as our stereo setup.

*EMERGENCY DECLOAK*

Get a Sonos Connect, plug it into your DAC, it'll sound the same as your Airport Express.

It certainly wouldn't play our vinyl.

Neither will your Airport Express, what's your point? You could plug an output from your amp into the Connect's line-in, play a record and then send that audio to any other Sonos unit in your house.

 

[steve_1979]

It makes no sense to have a separate streamer. The circuit board real estate is tiny, you end up with an empty box. There are real engineering reasons why it is dumb to have a streamer and DAC in separate boxes. OK, so lets put the streamer and DAC together (DAC's are also empty boxes these days). OK, so you still have a (nearly) empty box, why not put the amp in there as well? Finally, a bit of DSP magic and another amp, and you have a bi amped system. Still not much real estate used up, so why not put the whole lot in the speaker enclosure?

I am convinced that active, wireless, streaming speakers are the way of the future. Sonos already make them. Actives are already becoming more commonplace.

I am sure there will be post after post from readers about why they will never give up their separates, but there are real advantages in buying a complete solution. The chances of a home user being able to assemble a collection of separates to match a well engineered single box solution are small. When I last bought a car, it came with engine, gearbox and suspension already installed - each designed and optimised to work together.

Why not speakers / amps / dacs / streamers ?

What you've described here is my ideal HiFi solution.

 

[manicm]

Ok, and how much would such an active system cost? Not much less than 2k right? I believe ADMs are around 3k? What I'm looking at to save up for is a Cyrus 8 DAC Qx and Stream X - that's 2 boxes with a 70w amp, top notch streamer, top notch DAC for just under 3K. Yes it's not active but it allows for much flexibility. I can even go cheaper if I forego the Qx dac upgrade. Or I could spend 300 quid more and get a X Power amp, and the top-range Stream XP Qx - this allows for immense flexibility still if I want to upgrade amplification - and still 2 boxes.

Yes it's not an active system but this example allows for great upgradeability if I choose. And I get to choose the speakers I want. Ideally I would not want to upgrade for a long time, but at least I know obsolescence would be far away, assuming Ethernet is still the gold standard for high-end streaming.

And equally important to me is being able to choose my music remotely, without Airplay etc etc. I want uncompromised streaming.

 

[Alec]

Ok, and how much would such an active system cost? Not much less than 2k right? I believe ADMs are around 3k?

The floorstaders. The standmounters are less than half that, if I'm up to date.

 

[manicm]

[UNPUBLISHED DUPLICATE]

Well look I'm open to all options, but I don't think it would be feasible for me to import ADMs, since I'm not in the UK. I would have access to the mainstream brands like Dynaudio etc, so I might be able to audition their wireless speakers.

 

[manicm]

Well look I'm open to all options, but I don't think it would be feasible for me to import ADMs, since I'm not in the UK. I would have access to the mainstream brands like Dynaudio etc, so I might be able to audition their wireless speakers.

 

[Alec]

Beg your pardon, I missread and so replied with nonsense. The standmounts would be around 1300, so not that near 2K. Anyway...

 

[iMark]

I'm not sure if a Sonos set would sound as good as our stereo setup.

*EMERGENCY DECLOAK*

Get a Sonos Connect, plug it into your DAC, it'll sound the same as your Airport Express.

It certainly wouldn't play our vinyl.

Neither will your Airport Express, what's your point? You could plug an output from your amp into the Connect's line-in, play a record and then send that audio to any other Sonos unit in your house.

I think I will stick to my stereo system. I'm not going to invest in a Sonos system.

 

[Overdose]

Overdose and andyjm - yes a PC is all very well and good but you did not really address my concerns. Overdose - with the money I spend on a Mac Mini I'd rather put that down to a dedicated streamer. I already have a laptop, a Blu-ray player, a LCD, so what else would I do with another computer? Yes, a Mac Mini could bring me remote control but I don't want the sonic compromises of Airplay etc.

It's not a matter of technical superiority of one option against another, it's down to personal preferences and needs. And I prefer a dedicated streamer or a variation thereof ala Sonos, or Cyrus - who give a myriad of options. Pricey yes, but I'm willing to save up even over a number of years to get the system I want. I just don't see a PC in that system - yet. You could say I've burnt my fingers yes, but I see a good hifi as a long-lasting emotional and lifestyle investment and I'd be willing to spend on something that's right from the get-go.

It's just horses for courses really.

I'm not advocating that you go out and buy a Mac mini, in fact, given that you already have a computer you don't really need much else. You could simply add a Sonos Connect or Apple AEX and you're good to go. Airplay is not a compromise by the way, but the equipment that it is employed within might well be at the moment.

I would say that a good DAC with an AEX/ATV or the Sonos would give you a better solution than a dedicated streamer in all respects. A streamer would just double up on what you already have.

 

[BigH]

Ok, and how much would such an active system cost? Not much less than 2k right? I believe ADMs are around 3k?

The floorstaders. The standmounters are less than half that, if I'm up to date.

The ADM stand mounts are £1,250 which inc. DAC as well as amp/speakers. The floorstanders are about £3,250.

 

[Alec]

Yep, I was talking cobblers, as I said.

 

[MajorFubar]

Very few people mention expandability/upgradability during debates like this. That's where a computer wins hands-down.

I considered buying a streamer, for all of five minutes or so last year, but one major reason why I didn't choose one is they seem very 'closed shop' compared to computers. There's no guarantee that something you buy today can be easily enhanced to embrace technologies which haven't yet been thought of.

Technology is changing and advancing all time time with new functionalities and new ways of enjoying music, such as HD audio downloads and on-demand streaming-services like Spotify. Similar revolutions have occured on the AV side too (on-demand streaming from Netflix etc, online film rentals, HD film downloads), all of which a computer can take advantage of.

Unless you have a hopelessly outdated computer, then no matter what's round the corner, there's nearly always an 'app for that'. Or a free upgrade. Or some kind of downloadable hack or bodge.

 

[nopiano]

Unless you have a hopelessly outdated computer, then no matter what's round the corner, there's nearly always an 'app for that'. Or a free upgrade. Or some kind of downloadable hack or bodge.

Good points, MF, though interestingly my SBT has endless upgrades and hacks available. Apparently something to do with a Linux kernal. I think that is an OS for nerds/experts - which I'm not.

I know people who say that even different server softwares sound different on some streamers... That's a bit beyond me at the mo!

 

[MajorFubar]

I know people who say that even different server softwares sound different on some streamers... That's a bit beyond me at the mo!

That sounds similar to the debates about different 'HiFi' audio players like Amarra, Pure Music, JRiver MC and Foobar2000 (no relation btw) and I agree it is a whole 'interesting' topic (or rather a :help: topic ) in itself.

 

[CnoEvil]

Generally I find in this debate, the views expressed are mostly based on speculation, rather than the actual comparison of a good Streamer vs "Mac 'n Dac".

If someone has actually done a back-to-back comparison of something like a Linn DS vs the alternative, it would be good to hear about it.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Gotta admit, CNO, you're one of the true believers, in the Australian sense. That's a compliment - I doffs my cap!

 

[Kevin Stephens]

Sorry if I've missed a FAQ

Does a streamer offer any SQ or usability benefits over a laptop, with hi res audio files and internet radio connected by USB cable to a good quality DAC?

ALL

Many thanks for the info and comments. This has shown that for me there is no benefit of having a streamer as part of my long planned but still a long time in coming upgrade; which will probably include DAC, amp and speakers (or sub to go with GS10s). For the forseable future I would keep my CDs and player. However a DAC would allow me to benefit from high quality internet radio and to start collecting high resolution downloads via my laptop.

In the long term I can see that a streamer would be a must have if I ever have the time and inclination to rip all my CDs to a NAS

Thread closed?

 

[Kevin Stephens]

Edit: I've been away a while but I see the forum still suffers from duplicate posts/operator error.....:wall:

 

[CnoEvil]

Gotta admit, CNO, you're one of the true believers, in the Australian sense. That's a compliment - I doffs my cap!

What I believe is pretty much irrelevant.....it's just I think sweeping definitive statements should (ideally) have some basis of experience behind them. :shifty:

 

[Craig M.]

Gotta admit, CNO, you're one of the true believers, in the Australian sense. That's a compliment - I doffs my cap!

What I believe is pretty much irrelevant.....it's just I think sweeping definitive statements should (ideally) have some basis of experience behind them. :shifty:

Do any of the Linn streamers have balanced pre-outs? Might consider a comparison if he promises to turn off the Klimax Aktivs before I get there!

 

[CnoEvil]

Do any of the Linn streamers have balanced pre-outs? Might consider a comparison if he promises to turn off the Klimax Aktivs before I get there!

Yes, Akurate and Klimax have them.

FWIW. I will be interested in what you think.....either way.

What are you there to listen to?

 

[Craig M.]

I would be going purely to listen to the streamer. No real point in me listening to the Klimax as it's way out of my price range. Tbh, the Akurate would have to sound like a choir of angels to consider spending that much on a source. I've demoed the Sneaky before, but it was a few years ago - my memory of it was 'nice' and inoffensive, if that's not damning with faint praise, I'd have been happy to own it on SQ but not the control interface. I went in a couple of weeks ago to look at TVs and noticed he had most the Linn range in there, including the Klimax speakers which must be in the running for worst value product ever - I was genuinely shocked at how poor they were. :O

Anyhow, I'll pop in to satisfy curiosity if/when I have a free weekend.