Avi ADM 9.1 - how good are they? Really...

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.
T

the record spot

Guest
the_lhc:
It just boggles my mind how anyone can offer an opinion on something they have no experience of. There's thousands of hi-fi products I've never heard or have only heard fleetingly at the Bristol Show once a year, I wouldn't dream of telling anyone which one of those products to buy. At best I might point someone at WHF's reviews of said kit but in this case that's not an option as the AVIs haven't been reviewed.

I just find it completely illogical to offer advice on something you know nothing whatsoever about.

Happens all the time and I do it often on here, but I never tell anyone what to buy. Are you saying that opinions can't be offered on the apparent (note, "apparent") merits of a piece of hifi? How many people do you think could offer an opinion based on knowledge? Do you think it's likely that many people hear a wide enough combination of kit to speak with confidence on the topic? I have my doubts.

No, opinions are offered based on the relative experience of the person offering the opinion in the first place. Some will be based on elements of fact, others assumptions, others on prejudices for/against and yet others on a collective of all three and quite probably more.

It's why I could suggest that someone might find Q Acoustics speakers a good fit for their requirements having never heard most of that company's product line, but merely based on two people who have bought the 1050i on here, the Hi Fi World review and award for the speaker and the WHFS&V review. There's enough in that to glean an informed insight into the product, when really, my experience is no more valid or of any more use given we all hear things differently.

As a consequence, if someone asks on here for a suggestion or two, I'll offer it and very often it'll be based on a secondhand account from elsewhere. No issue with that as I'll openly admit to it and will have a liberal sprinkling of "apparently", "might be a good option" and "by all accounts" and the like.

For a cinema reviewer, yeah, I want a qualified film journo seeing the movie and giving me the benefit of a critical opinion but I don't think this compares to combinations of different kit.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Good post Mr Spot
emotion-1.gif
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think that if most of us here had to only post on what we have heard, we will be all posting on the 'what are you listening to' thread

as with many of my posts, if I have not owned or auditioned a specific product, but have read good reports from several owners, on several forums, I always state that the person involved should have a closer look at the specific item ....
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
chebby: FrankHarveyHiFi:And for the record, I think the B&O speakers are well overpriced. They sound ok, but nothing special, and when you push them they become ragged and harsh. Lifestyle product only.

That does not tally with my recent experience of Beolab 3 and 5 active speakers when I heard them last month (or other B&O equipment I have listened to in the past.)

Just passing on my personal thoughts. I've dealt with B&O at two different dealers now, and came to the same conclusion both times. Play it with their own CD's it sounds ok, play something 'normal', different results.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,253
26
19,220
Visit site
I'm afraid your experience as a dealer will never 'trump' my own ears in my own opinion of what something sounds like. The same would be true even if you were a manufacturer, designer or the recording engineer on the music I listen to.

Although - as a mere 'punter' - I have less exposure to less brands than you, my impressions of the B&O sound are not skewed by design or clever engineering or 'Sunday Supplement' lifestyle product type aspirations.

'For the record', the CDs used were everyday material available down the road in HMV or from Amazon and not B&O demo material. (Mint Juleps, George Thoroughgood & the Destroyers, Tom Tom Club, Benny Golson, and conversation between Simon Russell Beale and Geoffrey Palmer from this BBC production on CD for speech.)

I think there might be more to B&O than the hackneyed 'all flash, no go' opinions of them that you espouse.

2500 + workers in two countries in state-of-the-art premises (that could swallow the whole of the UK hifi industry and still have excess capacity) could not still be thriving after 85 years if they were only making 'posh tat' for the chattering classes as you seem to imply.

Yes you pay a premium for good engineering and design. So what?
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
the record spot:the_lhc:It just boggles my mind how anyone can offer an opinion on something they have no experience of. There's thousands of hi-fi products I've never heard or have only heard fleetingly at the Bristol Show once a year, I wouldn't dream of telling anyone which one of those products to buy. At best I might point someone at WHF's reviews of said kit but in this case that's not an option as the AVIs haven't been reviewed. I just find it completely illogical to offer advice on something you know nothing whatsoever about.

Happens all the time and I do it often on here, but I never tell anyone what to buy. Are you saying that opinions can't be offered on the apparent (note, "apparent") merits of a piece of hifi? How many people do you think could offer an opinion based on knowledge? Do you think it's likely that many people hear a wide enough combination of kit to speak with confidence on the topic? I have my doubts.

So do I, that's why I take most recommendations here with a handful of salt, unless it's coming from either the WHF team or a retailer who will have heard the products in question.

No, opinions are offered based on the relative experience of the person offering the opinion in the first place. Some will be based on elements of fact, others assumptions, others on prejudices for/against and yet others on a collective of all three and quite probably more. It's why I could suggest that someone might find Q Acoustics speakers a good fit for their requirements having never heard most of that company's product line, but merely based on two people who have bought the 1050i on here, the Hi Fi World review and award for the speaker and the WHFS&V review. There's enough in that to glean an informed insight into the product,

And I said that much myself, when I said I might point someone at a review of a product, however that's not what Grottyash did, he dismissed a product outright, despite no experience of it and in the face of pretty much every owner-review that's been seen here. That's what I have my beef with.

when really, my experience is no more valid or of any more use given we all hear things differently. As a consequence, if someone asks on here for a suggestion or two, I'll offer it and very often it'll be based on a secondhand account from elsewhere. No issue with that as I'll openly admit to it and will have a liberal sprinkling of "apparently", "might be a good option" and "by all accounts" and the like. For a cinema reviewer, yeah, I want a qualified film journo seeing the movie and giving me the benefit of a critical opinion but I don't think this compares to combinations of different kit.

As you say, it depends how you couch your recommendation and collating the available information for someone is fine but stating a product cannot compete with another in absolute terms when you haven't listened to both products is pretty pointless, in my opinion.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,253
26
19,220
Visit site
the_lhc:So do I, that's why I take most recommendations here with a handful of salt, unless it's coming from either the WHF team or a retailer who will have heard the products in question.

I take retailer opinions with a gritter lorry full of salt!

They only want to sell and offering advice on forums like this provide another means of potentially increasing their customer base. (This is understandable - they have to make a living - so not really a criticism before any of our 'tame' dealers take offence.)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the_lhc:And I said that much myself, when I said I might point someone at a review of a product, however that's not what Grottyash did, he dismissed a product outright, despite no experience of it and in the face of pretty much every owner-review that's been seen here. That's what I have my beef with. Regretfully I have to say you're paltering with the truth.I suggest you re-read and try to understand what I said. You'll see that nothing was dismissed outright, except in your imagination.
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
Grottyash:the_lhc:And I said that much myself, when I said I might point someone at a review of a product, however that's not what Grottyash did, he dismissed a product outright, despite no experience of it and in the face of pretty much every owner-review that's been seen here. That's what I have my beef with. Regretfully I have to say you're paltering with the truth.I suggest you re-read and try to understand what I said. You'll see that nothing was dismissed outright, except in your imagination.

"Just listened to some B&O active gear which sounded fabulous. I wouldn't think the AVIs would be of the same standard."

That's what you said. What exactly is there to mis-understand about that? You haven't heard the AVIs and yet you're saying they're not going to be as good as the B&Os. And using the phrase "I wouldn't think" doesn't make any difference, that's the opinion you're offering and it's based on nothing.
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
chebby:the_lhc:So do I, that's why I take most recommendations here with a handful of salt, unless it's coming from either the WHF team or a retailer who will have heard the products in question.
I take retailer opinions with a gritter lorry full of salt!

They only want to sell and offering advice on forums like this provide another means of potentially increasing their customer base. (This is understandable - they have to make a living - so not really a criticism before any of our 'tame' dealers take offence.)

Of course, but it's in no dealer's best interest to offer a combination that doesn't work together, so when a dealer says here "I'd be more inclined to go with speaker A, rather than speaker B with Amp Z", I'm inclined to believe them.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
chebby: I'm afraid your experience as a dealer will never 'trump' my own ears in my own opinion of what something sounds like. The same would be true even if you were a manufacturer, designer or the recording engineer on the music I listen to.

Hence the words "personal thoughts" in my description
emotion-2.gif


As you will note from my posts, I don't force any one single brand on anyone, and many times you'll see me quoting "personal preference". Everyone's different.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,253
26
19,220
Visit site
the_lhc:Of course, but it's in no dealer's best interest to offer a combination that doesn't work together....

Like the Naim dealer who recently advised a forum member (as predicted) that his unhappiness with the sound of his expensive new Naim XS/Neat system could be 'cured' with the purchase of a Naim Flatcap XS power supply?

(Luckily the unhappy user phoned Naim themselves who gave sound set-up advice without trying to punt another expensive box to him!)
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,253
26
19,220
Visit site
FrankHarveyHiFi:As you will note from my posts, I don't force any one single brand on anyone, and many times you'll see me quoting "personal preference".

But how many of those brands are NOT on sale in the FHH/hifix company?

And what about ATC? I don't have time to tell from the 21 pages of search results for Frankharveyhifi and ATC how many contain direct recommendations but I am willing to bet modestly that there are an awful lot more than for any other speaker manufacturer. (I would expect a similar result for Rick from Musicraft and ATC too.)

In fact there have been days sometimes when it seems like half the threads are related to ATC products in some way and you and Rick are invariably in there doing your stuff.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
chebby: They only want to sell and offering advice on forums like this provide another means of potentially increasing their customer base. (This is understandable - they have to make a living - so not really a criticism before any of our 'tame' dealers take offence.)

Take a look at TV advertising. What sort of products do you see on there? Food, cars, furniture etc. All these industries can afford to advertise on TV due to their profit margins. Hi-fi retailers can't do that. Radio advertising is pointless, as is newspaper advertising. What are we left with? How do we get our name out there without spending what we make in a week? I don't think too many people would moan about dealers on forums as long s they're not taking blatant liberties....

emotion-1.gif
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
chebby: Like the Naim dealer who recently advised a forum member (as predicted) that his unhappiness with the sound of his expensive new Naim XS/Neat system could be 'cured' with the purchase of a Naim Flatcap XS power supply?

Wasn't me....
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
chebby: FrankHarveyHiFi:As you will note from my posts, I don't force any one single brand on anyone, and many times you'll see me quoting "personal preference".

But how many of those brands are NOT on sale in the FHH/hifix company?I'll give opinions on any brand that I've heard, even if we don't sell them. We keep a huge range of products in store, and even more on the website. People are free to take or leave my recommendations.

And what about ATC? I don't have time to tell from the 21 pages of search results for Frankharveyhifi and ATC how many contain direct recommendations but I am willing to bet modestly that there are an awful lot more than for any other speaker manufacturer. (I would expect a similar result for Rick from Musicraft and ATC too.)

In fact there have been days sometimes when it seems like half the threads are related to ATC products in some way and you and Rick are invariably in there doing your stuff.

I have recommended the ATC SCM11's a lot, admittedly, that's because they're excellent speakers. But you'll also find in the majority of those posts also recommend other speakers too. The only ones where I've not recommended others are those where people have needed a speaker that works against a wall. 95% of the time I will give options. I can only make recommendations, I can't make people's minds up for them.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,253
26
19,220
Visit site
jakja83:I am in the market for a stereosetup. I was looking to get myself an amp, dac and speakers, but then I discovered the ADM9.1s and the seem to offer it "all" in one package.
But how good are these babies really, say compared to ATC SCM11s on a decent 1K£ amplifier with a decent dac?

My only experience of these two set-ups is of my friend's Primare i30 + DacMagic + iMac + ATC SCM11s system. It is extremely positive and I get to hear an awful lot of it. (About 7 hours a fortnight approx).

However, I have never heard the ADM9.1s with which to compare.

"ATC SCM11s on a decent 1K£ amplifier with a decent dac" are going to cost you over £2k and the AVI ADM9.1s are going to cost you £1125 plus some postage so you are going to want the seperates to sound twice as good to get value.

Perhaps a dealer who has heard the ADM9.1s and the SCM11s with a decent £1k amp can comment?

Another active option could be the Dynaudio Focus 110A active speakers with a Beresford Caiman DAC (using its volume control and variable output) if you only have digital sources. Still much more expensive than ADM9.1s and the ADMs have remote control and (one) analogue input as well as digital inputs. You would need to be looking at something like the Benchmark DAC1 HDR to get those facilities (a DAC with remote control and an analogue input) but then the price starts to go a bit 'stratospheric'!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the_lhc:
Grottyash:the_lhc:And I said that much myself, when I said I might point someone at a review of a product, however that's not what Grottyash did, he dismissed a product outright, despite no experience of it and in the face of pretty much every owner-review that's been seen here. That's what I have my beef with. Regretfully I have to say you're paltering with the truth.I suggest you re-read and try to understand what I said. You'll see that nothing was dismissed outright, except in your imagination.

"Just listened to some B&O active gear which sounded fabulous. I wouldn't think the AVIs would be of the same standard."

That's what you said. What exactly is there to mis-understand about that? You haven't heard the AVIs and yet you're saying they're not going to be as good as the B&Os. And using the phrase "I wouldn't think" doesn't make any difference, that's the opinion you're offering and it's based on nothing.
IA night course in English beckons, methinks. Of course you are completely wrong, but, hey-ho, it's your misinterpretation
emotion-2.gif
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
Grottyash:the_lhc:
Grottyash:the_lhc:And I said that much myself, when I said I might point someone at a review of a product, however that's not what Grottyash did, he dismissed a product outright, despite no experience of it and in the face of pretty much every owner-review that's been seen here. That's what I have my beef with. Regretfully I have to say you're paltering with the truth.I suggest you re-read and try to understand what I said. You'll see that nothing was dismissed outright, except in your imagination.

"Just listened to some B&O active gear which sounded fabulous. I wouldn't think the AVIs would be of the same standard."

That's what you said. What exactly is there to mis-understand about that? You haven't heard the AVIs and yet you're saying they're not going to be as good as the B&Os. And using the phrase "I wouldn't think" doesn't make any difference, that's the opinion you're offering and it's based on nothing.

IA night course in English beckons, methinks. Of course you are completely wrong, but, hey-ho, it's your misinterpretation
emotion-2.gif


Ok, so what bizarre interpretation of your words did you ACTUALLY mean then?

Oh and just using words like "methinks" and "hey-ho" doesn't make you look educated...
 
T

the record spot

Guest
the_lhc:

So do I, that's why I take most recommendations here with a handful of salt, unless it's coming from either the WHF team or a retailer who will have heard the products in question

I just think that's a limitation on the basis that most dealers might not hear combinations beyond that which they stock, which is great if you want to shortlist from that combination, but no good if you want to draw from a wider list than they have (and hence their view is only as good as anyone's on here arguably).
 

Thaiman

New member
Jul 28, 2007
360
2
0
Visit site
Andrew Everard:Can we make the vaguest of attempts to keep this on topic, please?

Keep it out of topic and we might not get another 20 pages of Avi thread!

This products get more mentioned than any other products that I know of! Not a bad advertising for James. I heard them and for the price, is good rather than outstanding but people have to learn to trust their own ears.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts