auditioning in store, then buying elsewhere - ethical?

[Anonymous]

unethical yes - but on pure economics worth doing - not that I'd do it

I don't really think real ethics particularly comes into business anyway - so why shouldn't the consumer be savy as well ?

are hifi/av shops really freely able to sell at the prices they'd like to ? or are there minimum prices they have to adhere to ? is that ethical to the consumer ?

it depends on what av/hifi shops you have local as well - this is one of the reasons that I get very annoyed with manufacturers that restrict to you only buying instore, if you are in an area with a good few decent hifi/av shops then prices will probably be competitive, if you're not - they probably won't be. One manufacturer lost a grand of my money last year, because none of my local dealers stocked that manufacturer, yuo couldn't buy the product online, and I wasn't prepared to drive 120 miles each way to go and collect an electrical product.

don't forget distance selling rights these days as well - you have 7 days with the product to make your mind up

 

[The_Lhc]

silly:What will happen is that the good manufactures will tell their dealers and distributors that all prices displayed on the internet must be the same,

Hmm, I think that might constitute a cartel or price fixing, which is illegal in a lot of countries, certainly in the UK at any rate.

 

[Anonymous]

as far as I am aware setting a minimum selling price is not illegal - its not price fixing

price fixing is something completely different

is setting a minimum price un-ethical? well thats a different question - but as said we as a consumer drive the market - so vote with your feet

 

[The_Lhc]

Buckshar:
unethical yes - but on pure economics worth doing - not that I'd do it

I don't really think real ethics particularly comes into business anyway - so why shouldn't the consumer be savy as well ?

are hifi/av shops really freely able to sell at the prices they'd like to ? or are there minimum prices they have to adhere to ?

Yes there is a minimum price, the one that makes them a profit, that's why online is cheaper and briack and mortar stores can't compete, online retailers don't have the same sort of overheads.

is that ethical to the consumer ?

it depends on what av/hifi shops you have local as well - this is one of the reasons that I get very annoyed with manufacturers that restrict to you only buying instore, if you are in an area with a good few decent hifi/av shops then prices will probably be competitive, if you're not - they probably won't be. One manufacturer lost a grand of my money last year, because none of my local dealers stocked that manufacturer, yuo couldn't buy the product online, and I wasn't prepared to drive 120 miles each way to go and collect an electrical product.

Hmm, you're really not seeing the point here are you? If people weren't buying online there'd be more retailers for you to go and look at the product!

don't forget distance selling rights these days as well - you have 7 days with the product to make your mind up

Do people actually do this for something like a TV? Have it delivered, unpack it all, set it all up, try it for a few days then ring the vendor to send it back, pack it all back up again, hang around at home (probably having to have a day off) to wait for the courier. I couldn't been bothered with all that, so I'll audition instead. That seems to be the easier option to me.

 

[Anonymous]

no thats not the minimum price necessarily - manufacturers are allowed to set minimum selling prices - its perfectly legal

makes it a level playing field across both small and larger sellers - and also maintains the "integrity" of their product

you'll find after a certain period of time after release those minimum selling prices are relaxed

 

[The_Lhc]

Buckshar:as far as I am aware setting a minimum selling price is not illegal - its not price fixing

"silly" didn't say a minimum price (that was you), he said the "same price", which is entirely different.

is setting a minimum price un-ethical?

Depends what you mean, the absolute minimum price for a retailer is the wholesale price that they're paying (unless they're selling a loss-leader, which is not something you see much in hi-fi shops, outside of the big stores), if you mean the manufacturer telling retailers they can't sell the product for less than a certain amount (of which the only one I'm aware of that seems to do this is Sonos, although there does appear to be a little more flexibility now) then I don't know.

well thats a different question - but as said we as a consumer drive the market - so vote with your feet

And there's nothing wrong with that, what we're questioning is people who take up a retailer's time with a demo, who have no intention and never had, of buying from that retailer. That's time that costs the retailer money and could have been better spent on a demo for a legitimate customer.

 

[chebby]

silly:What will happen is that the good manufactures will tell their dealers and distributors that all prices displayed on the internet must be the same....

I think what you are suggesting was called 'Resale Price Maintenance' (RPM) and was abolished in 1964.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think its uinethical as such I just think it depends on the situation. This boils down to the point that if you are at the retailer having a demo then they have every opportunity to win your business. Its not an easy question to answer due to all the factors involved, are you price sensitive, do you want it there and then, can you wait, do you have a relationship with the dealer, do you want to try other brands?

Late last year I upgraded my a/v receiver, I went into the store, told them what I wanted, we immediately narrowed it down to 3 models, my budget was £600 (but there was some fleibility for a great deal), I told them it was £500, however we narrowed it down to 2 models, one was £850 and the other £1,000. I re-iterated my budget position and he said lets have a listen anyway, so I demo'd both there and then. Decided the recently released Yamaha 1067 was the one for me and he said lets see what we can do on price. I ended up paying £700 for it.

In this instance at in indipendent store there was no need to go elsewhere, he was happy, I was happy and he'd prevented me going elsewhere. Also the product had only been out a few weeks. So I knew that looking elsewhere would not have been worth my trouble as i could take it away there and then.

If he'd have told me it was £850 after the demo, I'd have been OK about shopping around as I'd set out my budget requirements and he'd have ignored them. So I would have walked. As I said it depends on the factors involved, but if you give he retailer the opportunity and don't have the pressure of I might save £20 if I go on line then you will build up a relationship with your local store, or store of choice and when you go in you'll both know the score. Saves time and effort and keeps me loyal.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm suggesting the prices are displayed the same, you can email the the dealers or online shop for a price but the displayed price should be the same, how else do you level the playing field?

The manufactures also know who is flogging their kit of cheap, now it may well be law to sell at what price you want, but you'll find later that a manufacture may make life a bit harder for you.

 

[Anonymous]

great - well thats ethical isn't it !

 

[Anonymous]

Pulpdiction:I don't think its uinethical as such I just think it depends on the situation. This boils down to the point that if you are at the retailer having a demo then they have every opportunity to win your business. Its not an easy question to answer due to all the factors involved, are you price sensitive, do you want it there and then, can you wait, do you have a relationship with the dealer, do you want to try other brands?

It is purely unethical if you have the sole purpose of using his shop to demo with no intent to buy, that is different of going in to a shop and not liking the place, not liking the service or him/her not giving you a deal you can afford, but to just go in for the sake of a free demo with the intention of knowing you will be buying somewhere is totally wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

Buckshar:
great - well thats ethical isn't it !

Why?

 

[The_Lhc]

Pulpdiction:
I don't think its uinethical as such I just think it depends on the situation. This boils down to the point that if you are at the retailer having a demo then they have every opportunity to win your business. Its not an easy question to answer due to all the factors involved, are you price sensitive, do you want it there and then, can you wait, do you have a relationship with the dealer, do you want to try other brands?

Late last year I upgraded my a/v receiver, I went into the store, told them what I wanted, we immediately narrowed it down to 3 models, my budget was £600 (but there was some fleibility for a great deal), I told them it was £500, however we narrowed it down to 2 models, one was £850 and the other £1,000. I re-iterated my budget position and he said lets have a listen anyway, so I demo'd both there and then. Decided the recently released Yamaha 1067 was the one for me and he said lets see what we can do on price. I ended up paying £700 for it.

In this instance at in indipendent store there was no need to go elsewhere, he was happy, I was happy and he'd prevented me going elsewhere. Also the product had only been out a few weeks. So I knew that looking elsewhere would not have been worth my trouble as i could take it away there and then.

If he'd have told me it was £850 after the demo, I'd have been OK about shopping around as I'd set out my budget requirements and he'd have ignored them. So I would have walked. As I said it depends on the factors involved, but if you give he retailer the opportunity and don't have the pressure of I might save £20 if I go on line then you will build up a relationship with your local store, or store of choice and when you go in you'll both know the score. Saves time and effort and keeps me loyal.

All well and good but it makes no difference to the customer who has no intention of buying in the store at all.

 

[Anonymous]

But I can onyl give you my view and account for how I behave. Which I think is fair.

 

[Anonymous]

But as I say in my post I dont. I can only speak for what I consider reasonable.

I think what's lost in all of this is the fact that demo's are there to show off the various products they have for sale. If dealers really think that every demo will lead to a sale then they are kidding themsleves, I would suggest most don't think like this nd expect some people to just use the facilities. Therefore its up to them to set out there stall with the customer. If dealers had such an issue with this then they would charge for demos, or at least discount the fee off a purchase to weed out the timeswasters.

I view the issue as not about being about helping dealers prevent this issue (but again if they are not demo'ing products then they will have a pretty boring day for the most part and my local dealer loves to just talk about hifi so will gldly just talk to me about it for 30 mins) but how people feel about doing this to a retailer. Lots of people wouldn't give it a second thought, its just about price.

 

[Anonymous]

Pulpdiction: If dealers really think that every demo will lead to a sale then they are kidding themsleves, I would suggest most don't think like this nd expect some people to just use the facilities. Therefore its up to them to set out there stall with the customer. If dealers had such an issue with this then they would charge for demos, or at least discount the fee off a purchase to weed out the timeswasters

That's not what is being discussed, of course a dealer doesn't expect a sale every time, that's unreasonable. What the question is, is it unethical to use his shop knowing full well you will buying on line at a better price, two totally different circumstances.

Maybe manufactures should use tier discounts to dealers where a online dealer gets less discount than a B&M store, I don't know the best and fair answer.

 

[Helmut80]

I think everyone can agree that demo won't always lead to sale, for many reasons. The issue here is having a demo set up and using up several hours of a dealer's time that he could spend selling products to other customers when you know in advance you have absolutely no intention of buying there.

 

[Anonymous]

i think it's a good idea to speak to the dealer about prices before asking for demos, tell him the kind of price you want to pay for whatever item (pending a successful demo), they will know the mark up and can decide whether it's worth their while setting up kit, some may say they can't sell at whatever price but may still give a demo in the hope the punter may want the item/s there and then and decide to spend a bit more.

i think the key thing is being honest with the dealer, let them decide if they want to give a demo or not, but don't make a fool out of them, put the shoe on the other foot..

 

[shooter]

maxflinn:
i think it's a good idea to speak to the dealer about prices before asking for demos, tell him the kind of price you want to pay for whatever item (pending a successful demo), they will know the mark up and can decide whether it's worth their while setting up kit, some may say they can't sell at whatever price but may still give a demo in the hope the punter may want the item/s there and then and decide to spend a bit more.

i think the key thing is being honest with the dealer, let them decide if they want to give a demo or not, but don't make a fool out of them, put the shoe on the other foot..

Couldn't agree more really, and if it's a case of not paying rock bottom on-line prices then so be it. Everyone knows the overheads involved and even if you pay 10/15% more than rock bottom you appreciate the good time you have had at the demo, socialising, drinking tea, laugh's it all adds to make the experience. People still like face to face customer service when paying for expensive item's and on top of that, being able to experience a pair of speaker out of budget is alway's a good one. When you have had good time and invariably bought the item you went for then it's likely you'll go back.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't see how you can get moral advice from a forum of complete strangers... Just ask the question to yourself, or the mrs. Suppose you are listening to the new gear knowing that you saved some $$$ by buying online after extensive demoing with the local guy, do you feel good or bad? Do you dare to go back to the shop next time? What if your children ask advice on a similar issue. Do the right thing bro.

 

[v1c]

There is no ethical dilemma in this situation. The retailer is also the face of the brands sold , it is where you can go and see what you are interested in foremost not to give them business. I'm quite sure that every modern day business is well aware of the internet if they want your business they need to compete as simple as that if they won't price match that's their problem not yours. i've been in situations where i have been made to feel uncomfortable because i'm asking about a better price and been more or less scoffed at with a if you can't afford it don't shop here attitude, we don't need to price cut we can sell them for this much. What these types of retailers fail to realise is that i can get the same product cheaper why would i want to willingly pay more. If the retailer does a good enough job i'm going to buy from them if not i'm going elsewhere. If i want to listen or see a product i'm going to look at the product not necessarily buy if from them. A demo is about information gathering not purchasing. Another reason there is no ethic involved is not every retailer stock the same lines so until you know what you want you can't make a commitment. This subject has no ethics involved.

 

[Anonymous]

v1c:
There is no ethical dilemma in this situation. The retailer is also the face of the brands sold , it is where you can go and see what you are interested in foremost not to give them business. I'm quite sure that every modern day business is well aware of the internet if they want your business they need to compete as simple as that if they won't price match that's their problem not yours. i've been in situations where i have been made to feel uncomfortable because i'm asking about a better price and been more or less scoffed at with a if you can't afford it don't shop here attitude, we don't need to price cut we call sell them for this much. What these types of reatilers fail to realise is that i can get the same product cheaper why would i want to willing pay more. If the retailer does a good enough job i'm going to buy from them if not i'm going elsewhere. If i want to listen or see a product i'm going to look at the product not necessarily buy if from them. A demo is about information gathering not purchasing. Another reason there is no ethic involved is not every retailer stock the same lines so until you know what you want you can't make a commitment. This subject has no ethics involved.

good enough job at what?

 

[v1c]

Selling the product.

 

[Anonymous]

v1c:Selling the product.
yes, but isnt the ethical dillema that a given retailer may do a very good job of demoing and selling the product/s only for the customer to buy it somewhere else cheaper? and in some cases the customer may be certain that he/she is going to buy elswhere irrespective of the service and/or liking the product..

i agree with some of your earlier points, it is up to the seller to be competative on pricing and not to appear put out when a customer mentions prices elswhere, but by the same token i think the customer should be up front and not mislead a retailer into thinking he may have a possible sale when he has no chance..

(not saying that's what you would do btw, obviously, just saying

)

 

[v1c]

I'm not there for the retailer i'm there for the product. If the retailer meets my needs selling the product they get my business. It is not up to me to worry about prices they are charging.