ATC SCM100asl lacking in bass?

[BrianRostron]

I was luck enough to listen to some ATC SCM100asl speakers at the weekend. These have been on my "buy" shortlist for some time and I had very high expectations. In many ways they did not dissapoint. Superb clarity, detail, zero distortion good imaging etc. There was just one issue, there seamed to be a complete lack of meaningfull bass. The bass was there, very low frequencies could be heard, but the whole thing seamed completely out of ballance and very tonally light. Splendid mid range and little else. The demo room was a little small and was fitted with bass traps, so I fugure things would be a little better in my own home (14" by 20" room), no bass traps, however, I would need a massive improvement in the levels of bass to be happy. Has anyone else had similar experiences? The What HI Fi review states massive bass, I got tiny bass!

Any thoughs or direct experience of the same would be of much interest.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't know what you use at home, but maybe you're not used to tight, balanced bass? I don't mean that negatively, but many speakers are unbalanced with regards to bass, or exaggerate bass to some extent, so much so that when you do hear something that is more accurate, it can initially sound like it is bass light.

Of course, we all have our tonal preferences, and what one person will like, another will not, regardless of the system's accuracy.

What demo material was used? What was the rest of the system?

 

[BrianRostron]

I have JBL L100's at home, not the classic US ones but Danish built in the late 90's. (similar the the ATC's in some ways, 3 way design with 12" low range driver) Not the last word in Hi Fi perhaps but a very good listen nonetheless.

The demo used ATC's own pre-amp, we listened to Pixies, Radiohead, Kraftwerk, Underworld, Bowie and so on. I understand your comments regarding what I am used to, but these realy did sound like they had almost no bass, I was really supprised. Could be the small demo room, but would this make such a dramatic difference?

Perhaps these are just not the speakers for me? I am open to suggestions, with a budget of 10 to 15k for speakers and amplification.

Tannoy DC10's look interesting, maybe Triangle Cello's? About the best thing I have heard recently were some PMC PB1i's, they sounded good but those little drivers looked like they were working realy hard!

 

[matt49]

For my taste, the ATC actives are rather dry. As David suggests, it may be (in my case as well as yours) that the ATCs are a bit of a shock after what one's become use to.

Given your budget, I'd recommend you listen to the new Devialet 170. It seems to be able to drive pretty much any speaker under the sun, it produces deep and controlled bass, and it's the most transparent and detailed amp I've ever heard. Then you'd have your pick of any passive speaker you'd care to choose. It also incorporates DSP which will be able to provide room correction in due course.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[lindsayt]

Brian, sounds like you've found the same strengths and weaknesses as me when I've listened to active ATC's. I'd also add the following weaknesses: they need generous volumes to come alive and there's a certain amount of dynamic compression when compared to high efficiency speakers.

Speakers are a personal choice. I can understand why many owners love their ATC's and why they're not the right speakers for other people.

I can suggest a few speakers that you'd prefer the sound of compared to the ATC's that would be well under budget, but they are all bigger than the 100ASL's, which is something that you may or may not be happy with. It's much easier to get bass quantity and quality if you go very large in the bass cone department and use sealed speaker cabinets.

I think that your JBL's are good benchmark speakers with which to compare any other speakers that you might buy and keep. It would be a perfectly valid conclusion for you to decide that you can't find anything better for you than the JBL's.

 

[BrianRostron]

Thanks for the input so far ....
lindsayt - yes please suggest some speakers! And size is not too much of an issue to me.As for the Devialet 170, this looks interesting, I shall do some reasearch when I have time, I had a quick look on line and as this item has digital inputs I presume it is a resonable quality DAC too?

 

[steve_1979]

ATC actives (like many other active speakers) have better controlled bass than passive speakers. If you've not heard them before it does initially seem a bit like they have less bass which they don't. They just don't have the extra 'boom' and 'overhang' that passive speakers do. It does sometimes take a little of time listening before you become accustomed to this extra control but once you do it's hard to go back to passives without noticing the bass lacking a bit of its definition and 'booming'.

 

[matt49]

As for the Devialet 170, this looks interesting, I shall do some reasearch when I have time, I had a quick look on line and as this item has digital inputs I presume it is a resonable quality DAC too?

Yes, the DAC is fully integrated and is superb. The 170 also has an excellent phono stage.

 

[richardw42]

As you're a serious prospective buyer, I'd be surprised if you couldn't swing a home demo. You need to hear them in your own environment to double check, and also to give yourself a chance to adjust to their sound.

Bass isn't all about those wobbly unfocused low frequencies that come out of Citroen Saxos. If you're used to that it can come as a bit of a shock.

FWIW. I'm selling a 12" sub, and getting a 10" one. The bigger the jelly, the longer it wobbles.

Have you heard B&O ? I'm going to listen to some Beolab 9s soon, and there's also the very expensive Beolab 5.

 

[Frank Harvey]

FWIW. I'm selling a 12" sub, and getting a 10" one. The bigger the jelly, the longer it wobbles.

Many variables there 🙂

 

[richardw42]

It has many uses.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

As you're a serious prospective buyer, I'd be surprised if you couldn't swing a home demo. You need to hear them in your own environment to double check, and also to give yourself a chance to adjust to their sound.

Bass isn't all about those wobbly unfocused low frequencies. If you're used to that it can come as a bit of a shock.

Hi richardw42

Fair comments

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BrianRostron]

Thanks to all for the comments so far.

I'm sure I could arrange a home demo, however, the point is that I'm fairly sure the ATC's are not for me. So this leads to the big question, what alternatives should I be listening to? As to the point that the ATC's do have bass but it's just what I am used to, well, I've spent half my life going to live gigs and I know what they sound like. Is hi fi operating to different norms? In part it is I know, but even something big like the ATC's will start to roll off at 40-50Hz, so no, they are not truely flat! Nothing is.

Anyway, enough of the ranting! What I would appreciate is some suggestions of what speakers might be worth auditioning, I guess for someone looking for something at the more gernerous end of the tonal spectrum. Budget? 5 to 10K.

Suggestions welcome

 

[steve_1979]

If you like the ATC's sound but want more bass why not get some SMC50A and use one of the ATC subwoofers with them. This way you can adjust the bass to have as much or as little bass as you like.

 

[steve_1979]

If you like the ATC's sound but want more bass why not get some SMC50A and use one of the ATC subwoofers with them. This way you can adjust the bass to have as much or as little bass as you like.

 

[Electro]

I have JBL L100's at home, not the classic US ones but Danish built in the late 90's. (similar the the ATC's in some ways, 3 way design with 12" low range driver) Not the last word in Hi Fi perhaps but a very good listen nonetheless.

The demo used ATC's own pre-amp, we listened to Pixies, Radiohead, Kraftwerk, Underworld, Bowie and so on. I understand your comments regarding what I am used to, but these realy did sound like they had almost no bass, I was really supprised. Could be the small demo room, but would this make such a dramatic difference?

Perhaps these are just not the speakers for me? I am open to suggestions, with a budget of 10 to 15k for speakers and amplification.

Tannoy DC10's look interesting, maybe Triangle Cello's? About the best thing I have heard recently were some PMC PB1i's, they sounded good but those little drivers looked like they were working realy hard!

If you liked the PB1i's why not go for them 🙂 , Don't be worried about the twin bass driver movement they are designed to allow a very large excursion and have very high power handling .

The drivers may look small but the four bass drivers driving into two 3.5 meter transmission lines pack a serious punch down to a solid 24 Hz with real speed and power but retaining the natural texture and tone of bass instruments , you can actually feel the bass just like you can when listening to live music , they really do move air in conjunction with the transmission line output that exits in phase with the bass drivers .

For amplification and I may be a little biased 😉 Try a pair of Electrocompaniet AW180 monoblocks controlled by an EC4.7 preamp this combination will drive the PB1i's to live music SPL's but sound equally as good a low listening level with a proportionate amount of bass no matter how much you turn it up or down .

This system is capable of playing real live sounding music effortlessly .

Here is some info on the amps if you are not familiar with them .

http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/amplifiers/electrocompaniet-aw-180-m-mono-power-amplifier-each

http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/amplifiers/electrocompaniet-ec-4-7-preamplifier

And the full range .

http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/amplifiers

http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/poweramp/

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Brian

I have recent experience of demoing atcs and I had the same reaction as you initially. The advice to get 50s and sub is very good as it will give you a chance to adjust to more accurate bass - initially you would tend to crank the sub up but you will begin to recognise and enjoy more accurate bass and gradually want to turn it down, eventually keeping only the tuneful (controlled) part of it. From there there is no way back to boom. Try it.

 

[CnoEvil]

Perhaps these are just not the speakers for me? I am open to suggestions, with a budget of 10 to 15k for speakers and amplification.

Tannoy DC10's look interesting, maybe Triangle Cello's? About the best thing I have heard recently were some PMC PB1i's, they sounded good but those little drivers looked like they were working realy hard!

I have heard the DC10s, and the are very good, but I prefer the Kef Reference 205/2, or better still 207/2. The Refs ideally need great amplification from the likes of Electrcompaniet, Plinius, McIntosh and Bryston.

I have heard several Triangle Speakers (eg. Magellan Duetto) , which are very lively, but were too forward for my taste....but you might think different

My Tannoy Dealer said he was very impressed with the Prestige Kensington SE (I think), which he said was a big step up from thr DC10s, and use the Alnico Magnet System. They are due for a substantial price hike, to make way for the revised model....but there are a handful of the old model left. Their very "old school" look is an aquired taste, which one loves or hates. They also mightn't go quite deep enough for you, but they proved to be one of the most enjoyable speakers, out of the many that have been used on their musical evenings. If you want the same tech in a more normal design, it comes in at a lofty £12k for the DC10A.

 

[Macspur]

Hi Brian,

I owned some ATC SCM40's for about 6 months and at first really thought I had found the ideal speaker for me, but as the months went on It soon became apparent I was wrong... excellent with the likes of electronic music, but with my favoured genre acoustic, the SQ was just to lean for me. I will admit that the other components in the set up at the time probably didn't help either.

KEF and PMC both great suggestions and if I might suggest Harbeth 40.1.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

.....and if I might suggest Harbeth 40.1.

Mac

and possibly Spendor SP-100 R2s:

http://www.whathifi.com/review/spendor-sp100r2

 

[Macspur]

.....and if I might suggest Harbeth 40.1.

Mac

and possibly Spendor SP-100 R2s:

http://www.whathifi.com/review/spendor-sp100r2

Yep, or Spendor D7

Mac

 

[crang]

Hi

i am a little taken aback by your findings! I have searched hi & low for a copy of WHF that I had circa 2009 where they did a "best of" all hi-fi at all price points I distinctly remember these speakers being described as " built like a fridge" & the bass being " stunning" hit you with a bang in the chest! Mind you they were the active variety not passive if I remember right the amps totalled 350 watts in each! you may need a beefier amp?

hope this helps?

 

[BrianRostron]

Excellent - Some decent suggestions from you guys. If only there was a dealer who could demo Harbeth, Tannoy, Spendor, PMC, B&W and ATC one afternoon. (Please let me know if there are any dealers out there who could!) It's hard work this Hi Fi lark!

And I still wonder ......

If I had heard those ATC's in a slightly bigger room, might I have been happy with the low end? As I said, it's hard work trying to buy Hi Fi, cars are much easier! (although a faster way to waste money) I might have to log off before I go insane.

 

[BrianRostron]

Crang - I agree. I was taken aback myself! Could the smallish demo space have made this much difference? Or are my expectations just so far out of line with the rest of the planet?

There is probably more bass in my OEM car stereo, poor quality and one-note yes - but there is more to this than me not being used to the boom free "hi fi sound"

 

[BrianRostron]

And Crang - these were actives with ATC pre amp