Arguments for and against calibration

[strapped for cash]

Yep. My Philips 32pd9731d got a line mark down the screen, and my Pioneer 5090 got a big black mark down the right of the screen! My Panasonic actually has a little bit of that going on too, but you can only see it when the screen is off! I did take a photo of it the other day, I will have to upload it sometime, because the Pioneer one was twice as big and even blacker! I am now wondering what exactly it is? It was definitely screen burn on the Pioneer because I had two people inspect it! My Panasonic has a tiny bit of image retention but nothing too bad.

TVs definitely develop faults. (Or have faults out if the box). I know this from bitter experience, though I don't need to fill you in on the story.

In my view, calibration isn't so prohibitively expensive that it'd be too risky with any TV. As long as you've given the TV enough time to bed in and are satisfied that any issues are marginal and tolerable, you might as well get the best from it.

Better not tell me any more about a vertical line on your GT50, Gel! I bought my GT50 after you advised that your set was perfectly uniform! :O Luckily I got my money back and moved on, so no harm done, aside from several months of stress.

 

[strapped for cash]

I posted a while back regarding blue tint in really dark scene's. I'm not entirely convinced my set is set to it's full potential, so it become's an annoying itch where I'm constantly on the quest to tweak and paranoid on the blue tint (haven't really managed to get rid on really dark scene's).

I don't know what calibration options your Sony has. Sony typically doesn't include ISF modes that allow fine manipulation of greyscale, gamma, and colour. I'm therefore not sure what a calibrator could achieve without accessing the service menu. Even then, extensive calibration controls may not be available.

It might be worth having a chat with a calibrator to see what they think is possible.

 

[BenLaw]

I don't think you'll exactly find an argument against calibration, as it's clearly a positive. However, IME I have kind of been with BB on this one. I've only ever owned one proper flat screen TV (more recently a cheapish and cheerful LCD in the bedroom also). I bought the best one available, my only mistake being going in one year too early. Both my gf and I were blown away by how amazing it was. Such a feeling lasted many years, and I still think that with a decent blu ray. I hadn't come across calibration when I first bought it. When I first heard about calibration, I would have at the back of my mind (i) the prospect of of my gf saying 'why on earth are you paying £x00 for some guy to play with the setting when it already looks bloody marvellous and you could play with the settings yourself anyway', and (ii) the fact that I would probably agree with those sentiments.

But I say all of this from a position of ignorance. To my knowledge, I've never seen a professionally calibrated TV, certainly never side by side with the same TV but non-calibrated. Only then, I suppose, would I be able to make a rational assessment of performance increase v price v risk of waste if the TV develops a fault.

Obviously I will not be getting my Kuro calibrated so long into its life. Other financial commitments mean a new TV is a distant speck on the horizon, so it looks as though this will be only a theoretical conundrum for me :?

 

[bigboss]

So is price the biggest barrier for many forum members? That seems a common concern, because people are anxious it'd be wasted money if their TV goes kaput, or simply believe calibration is generally too expensive.

Another reason: I'm moving to a new place next year, will most probably have a new TV. No point in calibrating at this point.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'm happy with the settings you posted a few months ago Strapped, so I'm not that bothered about getting my GT50 professionally calibrated.

I've recently been working with an old school friend, who is now an av installer. One of the first things I asked him was "Do you do tv calibration", and his reply was, that no-one wants it done anymore, because the out of box settings are so good on more recent tvs.

Maybe he was avoiding the question, or more likely, he was telling the truth, people really don't bother with calibration anymore.

I understand spending £200 on calibration if you have spent £3000-£4000 on a tv, and if I had bought the ZT, or maybe even the VT, I would too, but to me, spending 20% of the cost price on something that will only have small performance benefits, seems like money badly spent.

I understand why you have done it Strapped, but for me, with my little old GT, it's not necessary.

Saying that, if you have some more up to date settings for the GT50, I'm more than happy to try them out.

 

[strapped for cash]

Ben and BB, I possibly wouldn't calibrate a TV for the first time several years into its life, either.

Nevertheless, I stick by my original point that it's the best value upgrade I've made. I was a little anxious as to whether it would be worthwhile, but any doubts I had proved entirely unfounded.

Sorry to sound like an evangelist, but I suspect many forum members have never seen a calibrated high-end TV and therefore don't realise what an appreciable difference calibration makes.

 

[BenLaw]

I agree I haven't and therefore I probably don't. Whether the difference is a worthwhile one to me I just couldn't say until I've seen it. TBF neither BB nor I is an inveterate tweaker. If you found someone who was spending £100+ on hdmi cables or whatever then the point 'you'd get better value by calibrating' would be a fair one. With my first proper tv I was very happy with it as it was. With my second I may want to squeeze out the last few drops of performance, but until I have one I won't know for sure!

 

[strapped for cash]

spending 20% of the cost price on something that will only have small performance benefits, seems like money badly spent.

I understand where you're coming from BBB, but I'd argue that the performance benefits are far from small. I decided to go for it out of general interest and felt far from confident it'd be money well spent. I only now realise how far off my previous TVs' settings were.

Take gamma, for instance. If you look at gamma readings from any Panasonic plasma out of the box, they look like a hill. Getting gamma flat changes the picture entirely. Contrast and shadow detail improve markedly. As a result, images are punchier with greater appreciable depth.

You also learn a great deal from spending a day with a professional calibrator. I'd now have a far better sense of what I'm doing if I ever went the DIY calibration route. If the calibrator is sociable and you're feeling observant, you'll gain a basic grasp of how the different settings interact. In fact, I'd love to give it a try now...

 

[strapped for cash]

With my second I may want to squeeze out the last few drops of performance, but until I have one I won't know for sure!

As above, I'd argue that you gain more than "squeezing the last few drops of performance" implies. Unfortunately, you can only appreciate this by viewing your calibrated TV in your own home. Without this experience, I can understand why many would question the benefits and value. That's really why I started this thread.

 

[BenLaw]

Poor phrasing perhaps. Although in absolute terms for my old 14" CRT v uncalibrated top of the range plasma v calibrated plasma, probably accurate. As I said, only with some experience could I judge whether the inprovement, however one might describe it, is worthwhile. From all I've read on calibrating over the years I suspect I would find it worthwhile but who knows.

 

[strapped for cash]

From all I've read on calibrating over the years I suspect I would find it worthwhile but who knows.

That paradox perhaps accounts for the small minority of calibrated TVs in people's homes.

If you don't know how appreciable the benefits are, you question the value of spending the money. If you don't spend the money, you'll never know how appreciable the benefits are.

You have to take a leap of faith. If the cost of my calibration had been more, I'd likely never have taken that leap.

 

[bigboss]

I have no doubt in my mind that calibration helps, and can make a significant difference to the picture. Very few people go for it, because:

1) Most people (who don't visit forums) do not know such a thing exists.

2) A lot of people who know about calibration will hesitate because of exactly what BenLaw says. You're paying for a service, and not a physical entity. They don't mind paying £100 for an HDMI cable instead of calibration (which is foolish in my opinion).

3) There are cheaper options in the name of calibration, like THX, calibration discs etc. There's nothing out there directly comparing the different options. Benefits of professional calibration is mainly word of mouth.

To be honest, even I did not know much about calibration when I bought my TV in 2009, and I had assumed that Sevenoaks would calibrate my TV during installation. I realised there was something known as "professional calibration" which costs a few hundred quid only few months later. If you don't decide on professional calibration at the time of purchase, you're less likely to do it later.

 

[BenLaw]

Well I have to (a) have a new tv and (b) have a spare c£200 for an 'upgrade', neither of which is on the cards for a while so I guess I'm not your target market for this thread. Sorry

 

[BenLaw]

Hey BB, you can call me by just my first name, I think we've known each other long enough

 

[bigboss]

Hey BB, you can call me by just my first name, I think we've known each other long enough

Just used to calling people by their forum name Ben. I usually cut short if the name is too long, like strapped, BBB etc.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Hey BB, you can call me by just my first name, I think we've known each other long enough

Just used to calling people by their forum name Ben. I usually cut short if the name is too long, like strapped, BBB etc.

I'd prefer it if you called me by my full name please?

Or Bernard.

 

[strapped for cash]

And I'd prefer people capitalise my first name, even though I failed to do so myself.

Glad we got that all out in the open. The simmering tension would have boiled over eventually.

 

[strapped for cash]

Well I have to (a) have a new tv and (b) have a spare c£200 for an 'upgrade', neither of which is on the cards for a while so I guess I'm not your target market for this thread. Sorry

I'm not sure I had a target market. I was primarily interested in reading people's views, whether they've had a TV calibrated, or indeed never had a TV calibrated and/or never plan to.

Your contributions are therefore as valid and valuable as anyone else's.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

There's something public school, and a little kinky about the name Strapped, don't you think?

Maybe I should call you Mr Cash?

I have no idea why I like the name Bernard, but both my phone and laptop are named Bernard, and I love Mr Bresslaw, as his magical tune, " Mad Passionate Love", was the first dance at our wedding reception.

Goodnight Mr Cash.

 

[strapped for cash]

1) Most people (who don't visit forums) do not know such a thing exists.

I think that's to a large extent dependent on the forum.

Contributions to this thread come from a small pool of forumites, which suggests most WHF forum members have no interest in the subject at all.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

And it's now officially my birthday, and as much as I wanted the day off, I'm obligated to go to work, so goodnight all.

 

[strapped for cash]

There's something public school, and a little kinky about the name Strapped, don't you think?

Maybe I should call you Mr Cash?

I realised this soon after signing up. There's something Mosleyan about "Strapped" that in no way reflects my personal habits or interests. Unfortunately there's no forum deed poll equivalent, so I'm stuck with it.

Mr "Cash" suggests I'm rich, which I'm certainly not. (Though rich is a relative term.) "For" would be a silly name, which means we're out of options.

Given the choices, I'll stick with Strapped. Anything else would feel strange now.

G'night...

 

[strapped for cash]

And it's now officially my birthday, and as much as I wanted the day off, I'm obligated to go to work, so goodnight all.

Then Happy Birthday Bernard, too!

:cheers:

 

[bigboss]

And it's now officially my birthday, and as much as I wanted the day off, I'm obligated to go to work, so goodnight all.

Happy Birthday, BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW!

 

[GSB]

Happy Birthday, BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW! :beer:

I plan on getting my humble gt30 calibrated,probably next year now(just had to book a rather expensive holiday :roll: )