Arcam CD5 CD player cannot do gapless playback (EDIT - software update now available - see post 86)

[SteveH72]

Apologies for going off topic but this thread made me dig out my old Marantz CD63 KI and put it against my Rega Apollo-R/Rega DAC combo. New (ish) vs old.
The Apollo is, to my ears, the best cd player I’ve heard. What amazed me was how little the Marantz gave away to it. The Rega is a little better, but the Marantz still has a little magic to it. You just listen to the music and forget the gear.
Progress? Not much……
The only caveat is the tray mechanism on the Marantz is a bit creaky. Nothing a bit of silicone lubricant won’t cure, I’m sure, but no troubles with the Rega top loading system.
To bring back on topic, if Arcam think it’s ok to release a £700 player that can’t do the basics of simple cd playback, they have either become incompetent or cynical.

 

[matthewpianist]

Apologies for going off topic but this thread made me dig out my old Marantz CD63 KI and put it against my Rega Apollo-R/Rega DAC combo. New (ish) vs old.
The Apollo is, to my ears, the best cd player I’ve heard. What amazed me was how little the Marantz gave away to it. The Rega is a little better, but the Marantz still has a little magic to it. You just listen to the music and forget the gear.
Progress? Not much……
The only caveat is the tray mechanism on the Marantz is a bit creaky. Nothing a bit of silicone lubricant won’t cure, I’m sure, but no troubles with the Rega top loading system.
To bring back on topic, if Arcam think it’s ok to release a £700 player that can’t do the basics of simple cd playback, they have either become incompetent or cynical.

The Rega certainly is a great sounding CD player, but its performance is substantially elevated by the DAC-R. In stock form it perhaps sounds more natural than some players, but I'm not surprised you find a relatively small difference between it and the Marantz.

 

[davidf]

WHF didn’t pick up on it in their review…

 

[davidf]

I would think that that’s an unanswerable question? Certainly in my own very limited experience, this is the first time I’ve heard of this happening.

The Tangent EXEO cd player which was discontinued a couple of years ago also couldn’t play gapless.

 

[bristollinnet]

I'm not at all surprised that Arcam's firmware at launch is flawed and/or incomplete as it has been their Achilles heel for the last few generations of hardware. Are they the only brand/manufacturer to which such criticism applies - of course not. However, whilst in this instance I might swallow the CD5 not supporting SACD, not being able to play gapless is just criminal.

I personally learnt from dealing with hugely frustrating firmware/software problems in their last generation, that despite a long personal history of buying Arcam since the early 1980s, I'm very unlikely to ever consider the brand again. Do so at your own risk.

The real issue now is for What HiFi and its reputation. Having given it such a glowing 5-star review, followed up by shortlisting it for an award, do they have the editorial bottle to update that review? I fear not, and I'll leave it to others to think through why that might be the case.

 

[ScarboroughMark]

Yes. I notice WHF are still promoting this CD player, even though it is clearly not fit for purpose. It does raise the question: when will they stop promoting a defective CD player? And if not, why not? Currently this is a grave disservice to their readers.

 

[Al ears]

One wonders why they would even test this when reviewing a CD player, I cannot think of any CD I currently own that requires gapless playback.....
I am sure, for the majority, it is perfectly adequate.
Just a thought.

 

[matthewpianist]

One wonders why they would even test this when reviewing a CD player, I cannot think of any CD I currently own that requires gapless playback.....
I am sure, for the majority, it is perfectly adequate.
Just a thought.

See my earlier answer. For anyone into classical music and some prog, it's pretty significant.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

See my earlier answer. For anyone into classical music and some prog, it's pretty significant.

DJ mixes too.

 

[Freddy58]

See my earlier answer. For anyone into classical music and some prog, it's pretty significant.

Indeed. The continuity would be ruined.

 

[ScarboroughMark]

One wonders why they would even test this when reviewing a CD player, I cannot think of any CD I currently own that requires gapless playback.....
I am sure, for the majority, it is perfectly adequate.
Just a thought.

Er....? A 'majority' that doesn't include listeners to classical music, prog rock, any album of continuous music divided into tracks?!! How can that be 'perfectly adequate'? I think the majority of this thread above would disagree with you. I think most of us expect any CD player to play any mainstream CDs as the manufacturer intended. Any who can't aren't fit for purpose and shouldn't be sold as a 'top recommendation'.

 

[bristollinnet]

One wonders why they would even test this when reviewing a CD player, I cannot think of any CD I currently own that requires gapless playback.....
I am sure, for the majority, it is perfectly adequate.
Just a thought.

You may just have heard of a popular beat combo from Liverpool called the Beatles. Try listening to Sgt Pepper or Abbey Road with gaps between songs that were programmed as a medley. Or any decent rock live concert album. Or plenty of classical Including lots of opera. Or prog stuff like Dark Side of the Moon, Oxygene, Tubular Bells, etc. I don't know what you listen to, but a CD player (or streamer) should be able to play gapless. I’m happy for you if you just like skipping through TRACKS but for the rest of us we’d also like to listen to ALBUMS the way the ARTISTS intended. Is that such a big ask given that every previous Arcam CD player has managed to do this faultlessly! Just a thought.

 

[ScarboroughMark]

You may just have heard of a popular beat combo from Liverpool called the Beatles. Try listening to Sgt Pepper or Abbey Road with gaps between songs that were programmed as a medley. Or any decent rock live concert album. Or plenty of classical Including lots of opera. Or prog stuff like Dark Side of the Moon, Oxygene, Tubular Bells, etc. I don't know what you listen to, but a CD player (or streamer) should be able to play gapless. I’m happy for you if you just like skipping through TRACKS but for the rest of us we’d also like to listen to ALBUMS the way the ARTISTS intended. Is that such a big ask given that every previous Arcam CD player has managed to do this faultlessly! Just a thought.

Sorry Al ears. But rather than defend this I think you might like to get in touch with WHF and let them know this is a reputational damage issue for WHF, not just Arcam.

 

[davidf]

Are we all forgetting live albums?

 

[davidf]

I have quite a few albums that need gapless playback, just off the top of my head - a number of Pink Floyd albums, and obviously a number of Roger Waters’ solo albums, all Boards Of Canada albums, the whole “first side” (20+ minutes) of Mark King’s Influences, a bunch of live albums, a load of film scores, and the “first side“ of FGTH’s Welcome To The Pleasure Dome. There’ll be more.

 

[Freddy58]

I am sure, for the majority, it is perfectly adequate.
Just a thought.

Oh? Certainly not for me. I would expect it to play as was intended, and how I would like it. Vinyl can manage it, I would expect nothing less.

 

[rainsoothe]

Sorry, but a CD player (or any hi-fi product for that matter) that doesn't do gapless is pathetic and shouldn't exist at any budget.

 

[matthewpianist]

Are we all forgetting live albums?

Very good point, because the audience always falls to silence between songs/pieces...

 

[James105]

Indeed an issue. I do wonder if gapless playback was ever a function required by the Redbook standard. I doubt it.
Obviously, when reviewing a CD P you do so on discs you can reference and those may not necessarily involve gapless.
Is it an issue of the disc creation itself? I have no experience of a CDP inserting gaps by itself.

My first CD player a Sony CDP35 did indeed have a "space" button on it that gave a 3 second gap between songs, and no I don't know why. The track number used to circle around while it was doing it

 

[podknocker]

DJ mixes too.

Many club and dance CDs have seamless transitions between the remixes and I know daft gaps would be annoying at a party etc.

 

[Gray]

My first CD player a Sony CDP35 did indeed have a "space" button on it that gave a 3 second gap between songs, and no I don't know why. The track number used to circle around while it was doing it

That would have been when CD players catered for people recording to tape*.

Some cassette decks had a fast search function - where the play head was close enough to hear the fast scan. They needed enough recognisable silence between tracks to allow them to count / stop / play the selected track.
Your CDP made sure they got enough inter-track silences.

*(On one of my CD Players, you entered the length of cassette you were recording to - e.g. C90, then it would programme only the CD tracks whose total time would most perfectly fit 45 minutes of your tape side A...a calculation I'd previously done on paper 🙂).

 

[James105]

That would have been when CD players catered for people recording to tape*.

Some cassette decks had a fast search function - where the play head was close enough to hear the fast scan. They needed enough recognisable silence between tracks to allow them to count / stop / play the selected track.
Your CDP made sure they got enough inter-track silences.

*(On one of my CD Players, you entered the length of cassette you were recording to - e.g. C90, then it would programme only the CD tracks whose total time would most perfectly fit 45 minutes of your tape side A...a calculation I'd previously done on paper 🙂).

Yes! I hadn't thought of or even remembered the AMS(?) now I remember you could press the play&FF for one song then press the FF for the number of songs you wanted to skip.

As for your feature, what about the fun of looking through the window and guessing

 

[Gray]

As for your feature, what about the fun of looking through the window and guessing

🙂 No chancing for me 🙂
Before recording what was obviously going to be the last track on the side, I would play the blank hiss, timing it until it stopped on the leader tape - also noting the 3-digit count.
(No way could you reply on an exact 30 minute side on a C60).

On the occasions the track needed fading, it was right down just as the leader hit.
Any space was filled with tightly timed / edited compilations of instrumental breaks, (such as the great 30 second guitar break in 'Come Up And See Me ...'/ Cockney Rebel) , jingles and sound effects.

I do realise (too late) that life's too short for most of the things I've ever done 🤨

 

[Al ears]

🙂 No chancing for me 🙂
Before recording what was obviously going to be the last track on the side, I would play the blank hiss, timing it until it stopped on the leader tape - also noting the 3-digit count.
(No way could you reply on an exact 30 minute side on a C60).

On the occasions the track needed fading, it was right down just as the leader hit.
Any space was filled with tightly timed / edited compilations of instrumental breaks, (such as the great 30 second guitar break in 'Come Up And See Me ...'/ Cockney Rebel) , jingles and sound effects.

I do realise (too late) that life's too short for most of the things I've ever done 🤨

I'm with you there....

 

[James105]

🙂 No chancing for me 🙂
Before recording what was obviously going to be the last track on the side, I would play the blank hiss, timing it until it stopped on the leader tape - also noting the 3-digit count.
(No way could you reply on an exact 30 minute side on a C60).

On the occasions the track needed fading, it was right down just as the leader hit.
Any space was filled with tightly timed / edited compilations of instrumental breaks, (such as the great 30 second guitar break in 'Come Up And See Me ...'/ Cockney Rebel) , jingles and sound effects.

I do realise (too late) that life's too short for most of the things I've ever done 🤨

No way, making compilation tapes was great. You spent several hours putting together a C90 changing the play order, stacking discs for what was going on next and you had to hit max tape length and the songs follow together while you listened in real time it was an act of love.

A streaming playlist isn't anything even close.

I think I'm officially "off topic" now