APEX V KEF LS50 5.1

[Supernova 22]

The recent award winning Kef LS50 is getting rave reviews which has got me considering a possible 5.1 AV package upgrade but more interestingly this package is at the same price point as the Monitor Audio Apex package (around £2500) , the LS50 package comes with the HTB2SE Sub but i imagine the Kefs would be better for music?

Any thoughts on this rather interesting match up??

 

[Frank Harvey]

As long as you have a receiver that can take advantage of the LS50's capabilities, it'll certainly be a better package for music (as well as movies).

Officially, there is no LS50 5.1 package, so there is no matching subwoofer, but there are a number of subs that will suit due to their clean presentation, and lower than average distortion.

The HTB2se is a good sub, and it'll certainly work fine with the LS50's, but it is being added to LS50 5.1 sustems to keep the price of the system as low as possible. But, the LS50's are capable of more. I would highly recommend using an R400b subwoofer, as this shares much of the audible benefits of the LS50's, and will compliment them better. If you don't want to stretch that far, the SVS SB12NSD is worth trying out. Again, its clean nature will suit the KEF's. And if you really want to make the most of them, the Ken Kreisel DXD808 will create a better cinema experience with it's greater headroom and detail.

in our main demo room, we're currently running an LS50 5.1 package with the DXD808, and have previously been running it with the HTB2se and R400b. I'm running the DXD12012 with my LS50 5.1 system. Fantastic combination for both movies and music.

The Apex is a great package, but it'll lose out to the LS50 package due to their size. Best thing to do is get a demo and see for yourself, and you can also choose the sub that's right for you.

 

[ric71]

I have the Apex and have demoed the LS50's.The LS50's are indeed very good with movies I did not demo them with music. It was a 5.0 set up with a KK DXD12012. I also think that the Apex are very good with both movies and music,I feel the Apex are not taken seriously enough as proper speakers because they are that good IMO.

Would I upgrade from Apex to LS50's probably not as there isn't enough in it to justify the cost.

What I will say is make sure you get a good sub with either of these speakers. I would recommend you consider either of the DXD subs.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Like the LS50's, the Apex benefit from an inert cabinet, which lets the drivers get on and do what they're supposed do

 

[CraigDS]

Is that price correct? Kef LS50 £800 x 5 = £4000!

 

[cstanwhf]

Is that price correct? Kef LS50 £800 x 5 = £4000!

£800 is for a pair of LS50.

You need 5 pcs. So that is 2.5 pair. Total is about £2000.

Plus a £500 sub-woofer would be around £2500.

 

[jcshutts]

It doesn't appear they can be wall mounted though which is a big negative IMO

 

[RickyDeg]

It doesn't appear they can be wall mounted though which is a big negative IMO

That's where the Apex come in to play! Highly flexible options of placement is one of the benefits.

However, I'm sure one still could mount the LS50's on a wallbracket/wallstand of some kind, although I don't think that would be the optimal way to place those speakers. One also has to remember that the port of the LS50 is on the back of the cabinet, as oppose to the Apex that are on the front.

Now, in terms of how they sound - I had a quick 2-channel demo this weekend and I must say I was impressed. Multi-channel I have no clue of as of yet, but I wouldn't mind a demo. If they would be worth selling my Apex system for I doubt, but you never know...

 

[CraigDS]

I'm an idiot! Obviously they cost £800 per pair. I did wright that about 1am this morning. I'm very interested.

 

[The_Lhc]

If they would be worth selling my Apex system for I doubt, but you never know...

You can't do that, you'd have to start a completely new "The LS50 Club" thread! Think of the work you've put in!

 

[The_Lhc]

It was a 5.0 set up with a KK DXD12012.

Eh? :quest:

 

[Frank Harvey]

It doesn't appear they can be wall mounted though which is a big negative IMO

They've not really been designed for wall mounting. The port is on the back of the speaker for a number of reasons, which outweigh the negatives of it being on the front.

Saying that, my rear left and right are up against a solid wall with only a few inches gap with only the outer bungs in and I've not had any bass issues.

 

[jcshutts]

Could it be done though? I am recreating the room which will involve shaping walls. If it meant creating a space at the back for the port, is there a wall bracket that would work with them???

 

[RickyDeg]

If they would be worth selling my Apex system for I doubt, but you never know...

You can't do that, you'd have to start a completely new "The LS50 Club" thread! Think of the work you've put in!

Putting work into something when it's fun is a good thing

And instead of selling it I could always keep the Apex and use as a bedroom system

 

[Sliced Bread]

It doesn't appear they can be wall mounted though which is a big negative IMO

They've not really been designed for wall mounting. The port is on the back of the speaker for a number of reasons, which outweigh the negatives of it being on the front.

Saying that, my rear left and right are up against a solid wall with only a few inches gap with only the outer bungs in and I've not had any bass issues.

Agreed.

I rear mount my rear cm1's and previously 781's, both of which are also rear ported.

You can get away with it for rears, but the trick is to set the cross over high enough to reduce bass reflections.

I've not tried it on the front though.

 

[RickyDeg]

It doesn't appear they can be wall mounted though which is a big negative IMO

They've not really been designed for wall mounting. The port is on the back of the speaker for a number of reasons, which outweigh the negatives of it being on the front. Saying that, my rear left and right are up against a solid wall with only a few inches gap with only the outer bungs in and I've not had any bass issues.

Agreed. I rear mount my rear cm1's and previously 781's, both of which are also rear ported. You can get away with it for rears, but the trick is to set the cross over high enough to reduce bass reflections. I've not tried it on the front though.

There is also the issue of imaging.

Can't comment on those specific models, but in many cases most speakers perform considerably better a bit away from any room boundary, period, purely for the sake of imaging and that 'airy' presence in the soundfield. Naturally, this can depend on several issues. Most of us without dedicated rooms are often forced to compromise with multi-channel set-up's however. Then there are of course some speaker configurations that are constructed to be placed near a wall to perform at their best.

 

[Frank Harvey]

There is also the issue of imaging.

Can't comment on those specific models, but in many cases most speakers perform considerably better a bit away from any room boundary, period, purely for the sake of imaging and that 'airy' presence in the soundfield. Naturally, this can depend on several issues. Most of us without dedicated rooms are often forced to compromise with multi-channel set-up's however. Then there are of course some speaker configurations that are constructed to be placed near a wall to perform at their best.

Agreed.

But the same could be said about most speakers, even those that have been designed for boundary use. Give any speaker a bit of room and they'll sound better. Maybe the LS50's at the side of me are ok because they have clean output. I don't know, but they work.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Could it be done though? I am recreating the room which will involve shaping walls. If it meant creating a space at the back for the port, is there a wall bracket that would work with them???

There isn't a dedicated bracket for them, and you won't be able to use brackets that grip the bottom of the cabinet because its all curves and no corners. They're quite heavy too, so I'd recommend putting up a shelf for them.

 

[Sliced Bread]

There is also the issue of imaging.

Can't comment on those specific models, but in many cases most speakers perform considerably better a bit away from any room boundary, period, purely for the sake of imaging and that 'airy' presence in the soundfield. Naturally, this can depend on several issues. Most of us without dedicated rooms are often forced to compromise with multi-channel set-up's however. Then there are of course some speaker configurations that are constructed to be placed near a wall to perform at their best.

Agreed.

But the same could be said about most speakers, even those that have been designed for boundary use. Give any speaker a bit of room and they'll sound better. Maybe the LS50's at the side of me are ok because they have clean output. I don't know, but they work.

Again, I agree with David on this.

Speakers desinged to sit close to a wall are not immune to sonic reflections. All speakers are effected one way or the other.

My CM1's are mounted on the side wall, yet I can clearly hear sounds directly behind my head. Good amplification helps with this, but there is no issue with the imaging in this case.

 

[RickyDeg]

There is also the issue of imaging.

Can't comment on those specific models, but in many cases most speakers perform considerably better a bit away from any room boundary, period, purely for the sake of imaging and that 'airy' presence in the soundfield. Naturally, this can depend on several issues. Most of us without dedicated rooms are often forced to compromise with multi-channel set-up's however. Then there are of course some speaker configurations that are constructed to be placed near a wall to perform at their best.

Agreed.

But the same could be said about most speakers, even those that have been designed for boundary use. Give any speaker a bit of room and they'll sound better. Maybe the LS50's at the side of me are ok because they have clean output. I don't know, but they work.

Apart from perhaps a few slimline speaker models I've heard (Def Tech, KEF, Opus). I was at a demo of a bunch of these which could be placed either on table-top stands or on walls. During the test the wall mounted ones sounded better both in terms of imaging and 'fullness' due to the close proximity to the wall. On table-top stands I thought the imaging came off as a tad diffuse, lacking focus. But those kind of speakers must surely be the odd exception in some cases I suppose?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Apart from perhaps a few slimline speaker models I've heard (Def Tech, KEF, Opus). I was at a demo of a bunch of these which could be placed either on table-top stands or on walls. During the test the wall mounted ones sounded better both in terms of imaging and 'fullness' due to the close proximity to the wall. On table-top stands I thought the imaging came off as a tad diffuse, lacking focus. But those kind of speakers must surely be the odd exception in some cases I suppose?

When I say speakers that have been designed to work close to a wall, I'm referring to the likes of normal hi-fi speakers that have a decent cabinet volume. Flat speakers like PMC Wafers and KEF T series which have been designed to be used mounted ON a wall will sound better against a wall.

With demonstrations like these, you have to take into account that preference will be given to the product that is being promoted - so chances are any normal rear ported speakers were probably used without bungs to exaggerate the difference. I don't know the specifics of that demo so I can't really comment in depth about it.

 

[ric71]

It was a 5.0 set up with a KK DXD12012.

Eh? :quest:

i meant that the LS 50's were in a 5.0 configuration with the .1 being the DXD12012. I know what I mean anyway ha ha.

 

[ellisdj]

For similar money to 5 of the LS50 you can get the MA GX's.

I would like to hear them against the Kef's as a direct comparison

 

[draenor]

How about a combination, apex as rears and kefs as fronts, with the center being either another ls50 or the apex a40?

 

[Selby]

The Kef LS50 speakers are lovely. I use them for fronts and rears. Centre being an XQ50c and the subwoofer being an MA FB212 (not for the fainthearted). There is no need for me to upgrade beyond this set up. I worked up through the Kef Eggs back to Kef Q10's and when the Kef LS50's came out then I jumped at them. Electronics being Arcam FMJ AV9 and 3x P35 Amplifiers. Its a nice set up. If you plump for the Kef LS50's you wont be disappointed.