Amplifiers - PRaT

[insider9]

What amplifiers should I look at other than Naim and Roksan Kandy range when looking for PRaT?

I understand Roksan Caspian would also be good at it.

What else is there please?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi insider9

Makes such as Exposure, Auralic, Linn, Leema.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[insider9]

Will look into it.

 

[Al ears]

What amplifiers should I look at other than Naim and Roksan Kandy range when looking for PRaT?

I understand Roksan Caspian would also be good at it.

What else is there please?

Pretty much depends on your budget.

However, on the 'reasonable' side I'd add Primare to the list. Going back to Musicrafts list note that Auralic do not do an integrated amp.

Which also poses the question are you looking for an integrated?

 

[plastic penguin]

Any amp that makes you toes dance: I can vouch for Leema, Naim, Roksan and a good quality Class A amp. Although I'm not too sure whether PRaT is an actual term or a tool for the industry.

 

[insider9]

Integrated or pre-power. Second hand max £1,000. Likely to be a decent integrated. Budget wouldn't stretch to mono blocks.

Primare A30.1 was ultimately too slow for my taste. Great amp apart from that loved the engagement, timbre, soundstage and everything else about it. I22 was too clean sounding even though faster. I haven't tried other Primare amps. I know you had a pre-power, so it may have been different.

Having listened to Roksan L3 and Naim 5i-2 for a while now I really enjoy their musicality. I wouldn't want to lose that although Nait is just too bright for my speakers and L3 has a certain lack of clarity around vocals. Both can create a decently sized soundstage but I know more can be achieved. I like the detail on Nait and timbre on Roksan. Would love a rich timbre of class A but don't want to sacrifice PRaT.

Typical have a cake and eat it attitude

 

[insider9]

Any amp that makes you toes dance: I can vouch for Leema, Naim, Roksan and a good quality Class A amp. Although I'm not too sure whether PRaT is an actual term or a tool for the industry.

Appreciate PRaT might be Naim term but most people will know what it means.

Yes, reading about Leema and now having experienced some of these qualities makes me interested.

In class A which amp would you suggest?

 

[plastic penguin]

Musical Fidelity but that might be too warm for your taste.

If you find Naim a little bright and the L3 lacking clarity, you need a Leema. You can have my Pulse. *good*

 

[nopiano]

Although Naim and Linn dealers came up with this method of demonstrating their gear, I always considered it something of a hoax. The dealer would jiggle his hands or feet enthusiastically at the product he wanted to sell, and sit sullenly when the rival was played.

Naim amps are widely recognised as being voiced somewhat forwards, which makes them 'enthusiastic'. If that makes them more PRaT them I'm not going to disagree!

Funny that you never see real music reviewed in such terms...

 

[insider9]

Musical Fidelity but that might be too warm for your taste.

If you find Naim a little bright and the L3 lacking clarity, you need a Leema. You can have my Pulse. *good*

I was looking at Musical Fidelity A3.5/A5. I'd rather stay on the warm side if I'm honest. Roksan just isn't as clear as I'd like it to be. In comparison Primare A30.1 was warm but the way it projected vocals was so precise and clear with no artefacts around them. A real treat.

Interesting you haven't sold your Pulse yet.

Although Naim and Linn dealers came up with this method of demonstrating their gear, I always considered it something of a hoax. The dealer would jiggle his hands or feet enthusiastically at the product he wanted to sell, and sit sullenly when the rival was played.

Naim amps are widely recognised as being voiced somewhat forwards, which makes them 'enthusiastic'. If that makes them more PRaT them I'm not going to disagree!

Funny that you never see real music reviewed in such terms...

I understand the scepticism. I favoured timbre and ambiance and didn't really go for fast sounding amps before. The first time I've noticed a difference was between Primare A30.1 and I22. I22 was just quicker and made Rock music this much more enjoyable. But overal didn't deliver in other departments. A30.1 was ok with rhythm and timing just had no pace.

The one that started to change my mind was Roksan KA-1 Mk3 which I then replaced with L3. L3 is fast and agile but at the same time timbre rich. Not the largest soundstage but decent. Having bought Naim I found that it's even faster, aggressive some might say to the point I enjoyed some of the songs I dismissed in the past. It's not just the overal rhythm of the song but overal presentation. More dynamism from horns even if they play background in some big band tracks. Sadly treble is not what I can live with using 5 inch ribbons. Not the quantity but the quality. (Warm sounding Naim might be an answer if there's such a thing)

I still listen to quite a bit of Rock, Metal and these just don't translate well on slower sounding amps. There's this disconnet when music just feels loud but doesn't move you. Is it PRaT or simply what PP said toe-tapping ability makes no difference, really.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Try a nait xs,it is a smooth amp with a less in yer face sound but I wouldn't say overly warm either.but it's the original xs not the second iteration so it would have to be a used buy but they are very reliable amps and a bargain for what they are going for...I just sold mine a couple of months ago for £550...I could probably have got more but I wanted a quick sale and it went within 10 minutes.lol.

 

[insider9]

That's a huge bargain Mark! Thanks will have a look at XS.

 

[Electro]

Having owned a Primare 301 in the past ( for a short period ) I know exactly what you mean, there is no other way to explain the sound it produced as being slow and devoid of any sense of rythmic interplay.

For me Electrocompaniet was the answer, it out PRAT's Naim but also has the complete range of other atributes that you are looking for.

With Electro amps all you notice is how realistic and dynamic the music sounds and the transient power, speed and performance is something to behold.

If you can give an Electrocompaniet amp a try I am sure it will tick all your boxes and more, or if you are anywhere near Essex you are welcome to listen to mine.

 

[insider9]

Thanks for the offer Electro, very kind of you. Probably too far unfortuntely (expect 7 hour return trip in the car).

They've been high on my list but I was kind of thinking you can't have it all. So if I get an emotive preformer with great timbre, involving soundstage and transient power I'll probably lose out in terms of musicality / PRaT.

Your comparison is most helpful, indeed. I kind of got quite excited. I know some of the model can be had in the budget also which is fantastic.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Having owned a Primare 301 in the past ( for a short period ) I know exactly what you mean, there is no other way to explain the sound it produced as being slow and devoid of any sense of rythmic interplay.

For me Electrocompaniet was the answer, it out PRAT's Naim but also has the complete range of other atributes that you are looking for.

With Electro amps all you notice is how realistic and dynamic the music sounds and the transient power, speed and performance is something to behold.

If you can give an Electrocompaniet amp a try I am sure it will tick all your boxes and more, or if you are anywhere near Essex you are welcome to listen to mine.

This makes sense
For me prat means speed or lighting reaction to dynamic shifts
Any Hegel can do this and I only experience this by chance not listening for it.
I've had roksan and that does not come even half way to this in comparison.

But be careful about amps with added distortion for the effect of prat or any salesman giving out makes of amp with prat.

 

[insider9]

It was never my intention to buy either Roksan or Naim looking for PRaT. In fact I bought Roksan as I didn't like K3 under demo conditions. I wanted to see how I'd feel with one of their amps at home as other people opinions didn't quite match my experience. That was KA-1 Mk3 and I actually enjoyed it. I soon replaced it with L3 which is even more enjoyable. That led me to try Naim. Once again quite enjoyable but perhaps too hifi for my taste. I tried 3 different speakers with Naim to get it working. Epos M15.2 were ideal but overal sound signature just wasn't what I was ultimately looking for.

I now find myself with 2 great pairs of speakers and Red Rose can definitely show up shortcomings of an amp.

 

[insider9]

I could try something like a Chord Hugo to see if this would clear up some of Roksans flaws...

 

[nopiano]

I could try something like a Chord Hugo to see if this would clear up some of Roksans flaws...

I'm afraid it sounds like you are chasing your tail a bit. If the amp really isn't right, and it's not something else awry, I'd not look at an expensive DAC as a first move.

Is there a decent dealer you can get to help?

 

[insider9]

I could try something like a Chord Hugo to see if this would clear up some of Roksans flaws...

I'm afraid it sounds like you are chasing your tail a bit. If the amp really isn't right, and it's not something else awry, I'd not look at an expensive DAC as a first move.

Is there a decent dealer you can get to help?

Thanks nopiano. You're probably right. I have one constant at the minute (speakers) from a complete system that delivered what I wanted from it. Dealers are aplenty although I'm aware I'd rather buy second hand so wouldn't want to waste their time. I'm not afraid to experiment and don't expect to get it right first time. Small steps

I've had quite a bit of equipment in the last 18 months so enjoy trying thigs out. Some work out, some don't. Ultimately my experience grows and I know better what I like and dislike. It's all a beauty of this hobby for me.

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest - An explanation of PRaT:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html

 

[Andrewjvt]

In case it's of interest - An explanation of PRaT:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html

An incompetent or stupid person; an idiot.

 

[plastic penguin]

Interesting you haven't sold your Pulse yet.

TBH, I've yet to pu it up for sale. Haven't had the time. It's just sitting here collecting dust.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Will look into it.

Hi insider9

You’re welcome.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Going back to Musicrafts list note that Auralic do not do an integrated amp.

Hi Al ears

Auralic’s relatively new Polaris *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[insider9]

Going back to Musicrafts list note that Auralic do not do an integrated amp.

Hi Al ears

Auralic’s relatively new Polaris *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks again Rick. Looks amazing but not for me. Probably should've mentioned not really interested in class D.