Amplifier house sound (by brand), is there such a thing? If so, how would you describe the house sound and characteristics of your favourite amplifier brand, may it be Devialet, Sugden, Hegel, Rotel, Naim or anything else? Warm, bright, great soundstage, spectacular imaging, blasting control of speakers? What speakers do they tend to pair well with? Feel free to elaborate using your own vocabulary and emotions!
Amplifier house sound
- Thread starter Artoo
- Start date
Not my favorite brand, but I own one and it's currently driving my speakers.....
The brand/amp Rotel ra-1520, not sure this is an example of the house sound but.....
It's 60watt/p/c with an operating power consumption of 300watts. (Arcam 19 is 50wpc with 350watts opc for reference)
How I'd describe it - very clean sounding top end and mid range tittering on the edge (careful interconnect matching should be a consideration) of too sharp many will claim too bright. It is revealing in that regard without distortion or siblance too and it has tone controls which are pretty good for the top end.....but....it'll grate if you're not in the mood for it.
It lacks lower midrange lower bass detail though (careful speaker matching required) - some may conclude the bass is neutral but it's just not there - it robs music of natural timbre (surprised how much detail ref 'space' and 'ambiance' is in this region.)
Don't get me wrong it does bass but it's not the textured 'round' type that rolls through you - my assumption is that operating power figure - the headroom just is not there to 'shift' or deliver the frequency range in the bass. The bass tone control cannot generate what's not there either and tends to smear. But strangely every now and then the bass works really well.... *UNKNOWN*
I do have small coned speakers though and suspect they're really not suited to this amp.
It sounds 'loud' too and will make any music sound loud even if it's equ'd low which is a good and bad thing.
This amp is never cosy - it does not generate a 'liquid soundstage' that one can dive into for an evening or allow to wash over you like a wave.
This amps from 'the wall
of sound' school it'll go down a hoot with rockers though and lovers of bombastically played classical and does a good job of cleaning up poor 'clustered' recordings.
I have to admit if I was having a small house party I'd use this amp it does kick and presents music in a very excited way - definitely a young man's (or womans) amp and definitely not designed for playing music in the background or quietly.
If it had better bass 'presents' it would be the bizniz.
....... :-D
The brand/amp Rotel ra-1520, not sure this is an example of the house sound but.....
It's 60watt/p/c with an operating power consumption of 300watts. (Arcam 19 is 50wpc with 350watts opc for reference)
How I'd describe it - very clean sounding top end and mid range tittering on the edge (careful interconnect matching should be a consideration) of too sharp many will claim too bright. It is revealing in that regard without distortion or siblance too and it has tone controls which are pretty good for the top end.....but....it'll grate if you're not in the mood for it.
It lacks lower midrange lower bass detail though (careful speaker matching required) - some may conclude the bass is neutral but it's just not there - it robs music of natural timbre (surprised how much detail ref 'space' and 'ambiance' is in this region.)
Don't get me wrong it does bass but it's not the textured 'round' type that rolls through you - my assumption is that operating power figure - the headroom just is not there to 'shift' or deliver the frequency range in the bass. The bass tone control cannot generate what's not there either and tends to smear. But strangely every now and then the bass works really well.... *UNKNOWN*
I do have small coned speakers though and suspect they're really not suited to this amp.
It sounds 'loud' too and will make any music sound loud even if it's equ'd low which is a good and bad thing.
This amp is never cosy - it does not generate a 'liquid soundstage' that one can dive into for an evening or allow to wash over you like a wave.
This amps from 'the wall
of sound' school it'll go down a hoot with rockers though and lovers of bombastically played classical and does a good job of cleaning up poor 'clustered' recordings.
I have to admit if I was having a small house party I'd use this amp it does kick and presents music in a very excited way - definitely a young man's (or womans) amp and definitely not designed for playing music in the background or quietly.
If it had better bass 'presents' it would be the bizniz.
....... :-D
Infiniteloop
Well-known member
The two Amps I have are very different to each other.
The Devialet 200 is very neutral and squeaky clean but is not, in any way, sterile or boring. It's the sort of Amp where you can forget about the HiFi and just enjoy the music. In fact, switching speakers reveals much more about what each speaker pair is doing, or how the source material really sounds, rather than any sound signature coming from the Amp itself. For a small, shiny thing no bigger than a Pizza box, the sound it creates is extraordinay. You can crank the volume right up and all that appears to happen is that the soundstage expands and envelopes you. It's not until you try to speak to someone else in the same room that you realise just how loud it is.
The Unison Research S8 is a completely different animal. Warm, euphonic and powerful sounding (you'd be amazed at what 24 watts can achieve!). Vocals and acoustic instruments sound totally sublime and I often find that after a long listening session I really don't want to turn the music off, finding myself listening to 'just one more track' before I reluctantly switch it off and go to bed (usually later than is sensible). Many of my non-HiFi friends (and Mrs Loop) prefer this Amp to the Devialet, but for me, I enjoy the differences.
The Devialet 200 is very neutral and squeaky clean but is not, in any way, sterile or boring. It's the sort of Amp where you can forget about the HiFi and just enjoy the music. In fact, switching speakers reveals much more about what each speaker pair is doing, or how the source material really sounds, rather than any sound signature coming from the Amp itself. For a small, shiny thing no bigger than a Pizza box, the sound it creates is extraordinay. You can crank the volume right up and all that appears to happen is that the soundstage expands and envelopes you. It's not until you try to speak to someone else in the same room that you realise just how loud it is.
The Unison Research S8 is a completely different animal. Warm, euphonic and powerful sounding (you'd be amazed at what 24 watts can achieve!). Vocals and acoustic instruments sound totally sublime and I often find that after a long listening session I really don't want to turn the music off, finding myself listening to 'just one more track' before I reluctantly switch it off and go to bed (usually later than is sensible). Many of my non-HiFi friends (and Mrs Loop) prefer this Amp to the Devialet, but for me, I enjoy the differences.
That's really interesting infinite loop. Must hear a Devialet sometime. - I have got two main amps The Cambridge 840A v2 (unburstable power, transparent and spacious sound) . Can be dry and bass light though.
The Naim unitilite (all in one amp cd and streamer) has a richer, deeper sound. A full extended bass which provides much needed grunt and excitement to to the music. It sounds good at lower volumes too. (the 840A sounded too light weight at lower volumes).
I much prefer the Naim Unitilite
regards tonky
The Naim unitilite (all in one amp cd and streamer) has a richer, deeper sound. A full extended bass which provides much needed grunt and excitement to to the music. It sounds good at lower volumes too. (the 840A sounded too light weight at lower volumes).
I much prefer the Naim Unitilite
regards tonky
Infiniteloop
Well-known member
Nice reading! Of course, it doesn't have to be your favourite brand. Budget, room acoustics, speaker choice, etc come into play when choosing an amp. What I was really in for, is whether you can say that there is such a thing as an amplifier house sound, and if so, how that manifests for different brands. I think this is interesting (especially) for those of us who has not yet listened to too many different amplifiers and brands. Also, I was thinking of whether this sound characteristics normally is retained while walking up the ladder in the brand, just with further refinement, or whether new characteristics tend to come into play. Thompsonuxb, could you (or someone else) please explain what 'operating power consumption' means, and how it relates to 'watts per channel'? Is this a measure often specified for amplifiers, and does it translate to some specific characteristics of the amplifier sound or speaker interaction?
I think there's a house sound with many manufacturers, certainly the ones I've tried. "House sound" could be argued is a euphemism for 'flawed' or 'coloured'. Well maybe it is, there's no such thing as a perfect amp, they're all flawed or coloured to some degree, and if a manufacturer has found a recipe they think keeps bringing customers back for more, they're going to try to stick to it.
chebby
Well-known member
Jota180
Well-known member
Some amp makers boost the bass by a significant amount to make their amps sound 'better' at lower to medium volumes.
TrevC
Well-known member
Jota180
Well-known member
TrevC said:
An amp with 10dB boost in the bass will sound different to one that doesn't have this.
Muscular...big open soundstage....delicate when necessary and robust when needed...my great tank of a amp is a quad!
TrevC
Well-known member
Jota180 said:
An amp with the bass control cranked up to the max will sound different? You don't say. :O)
Covenanter
Well-known member
IMO There is certainly such thing as a house sound. All you have to do is compare:
Arcam vs Cyrus
Bryston vs Audio Analogue
Linn vs Naim
Electrocompaniet vs Chord
Musical Fidelity vs Cambridge Audio
Arcam vs Cyrus
Bryston vs Audio Analogue
Linn vs Naim
Electrocompaniet vs Chord
Musical Fidelity vs Cambridge Audio
I understand what you are saying Cno, the subjective differences between the amplifiers listed would be agreed by many on here and elsewhere.
However, such evidence as exists would strongly suggest that this is not the case. Ignoring nonsense such as amps with 10dB bass boost, then compedent amplifiers such as those listed will all sound very similar indeed when tested rigorously.
Providing the amplifiers are working within their specified output, carefully matched for level and auditioned blind, then I reckon that few on here would be able to pick the differences. I know that is a big assertion and possibly some listeners would be able to pick amps they know very well, but it coincides with my own experiences and the results of other blind tests.
Most of the differences heard in sighted tests are generally accepted to be the product of expectation bias, but I do wonder if there are other factors at work too. Some amplifiers seem to be able to make you play them that touch louder than others, often something as simple as sensitive volume control can make the difference.
Arcam amplifiers have a reputation for sounding smooth and a little 'laid back', and, surprise, surprise, they have sensible 'slow' acting volume controls and are not unduly sensitive, input wise. Compare that to, say, a classic 'exciting' Naim with fast acting volume and highly sensitive inputs.
Without measurements it is impossible to compensate for these differences, and this is just one area where the design of these amplifiers affects the way they are used and therefor percieved.
However, such evidence as exists would strongly suggest that this is not the case. Ignoring nonsense such as amps with 10dB bass boost, then compedent amplifiers such as those listed will all sound very similar indeed when tested rigorously.
Providing the amplifiers are working within their specified output, carefully matched for level and auditioned blind, then I reckon that few on here would be able to pick the differences. I know that is a big assertion and possibly some listeners would be able to pick amps they know very well, but it coincides with my own experiences and the results of other blind tests.
Most of the differences heard in sighted tests are generally accepted to be the product of expectation bias, but I do wonder if there are other factors at work too. Some amplifiers seem to be able to make you play them that touch louder than others, often something as simple as sensitive volume control can make the difference.
Arcam amplifiers have a reputation for sounding smooth and a little 'laid back', and, surprise, surprise, they have sensible 'slow' acting volume controls and are not unduly sensitive, input wise. Compare that to, say, a classic 'exciting' Naim with fast acting volume and highly sensitive inputs.
Without measurements it is impossible to compensate for these differences, and this is just one area where the design of these amplifiers affects the way they are used and therefor percieved.
Gazzip
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
I'm with you on this CnoEvil. The scientific stance that all amplifiers sound the same is always based upon "perfectly working". If an amplifier that is not "perfectly working" produced a different yet palatable sound and is perfectly safe then why not brand it, box it and sell it. This is house sound for me.
ABX as an acoustic identification model is a non-starter for me because the differences are so subtle and our senses are dependent on one another. Ever watched blind folded people trying to identify flavours? They can't.
When I talk about the differences in amps that I've heard, I am only interested in what I have experienced....and always make it clear that it is my opinion.
Any time I've heard Chord amps, I've actually found it an unpleasant experience...this has never happened with Electrocompaniet. Do have I have evidence?...no I don't.....only my subjective perception.
Any time I've heard Chord amps, I've actually found it an unpleasant experience...this has never happened with Electrocompaniet. Do have I have evidence?...no I don't.....only my subjective perception.
CnoEvil said:
Not heard all in that list - but I agree there are subjective differences in sound between amps. The science behind it all interests me - but it's liking what I hear that matters. Life's too short to listen to everything in the search for hi-fi nirvana - and hopefully, it doesn't cost too much carrying out the search.for this nirvana.
I've squandered money before - it taught me a big lesson about the importance of auditioning. (Bought some pre-owned gems too!
regards - tonky
CnoEvil said:
Subjective experiences are very real and important, it helps us identify things that work for us rather than against.
The point being discussed is whether these experiences can be transposed into some kind of objective evidence that allows us to discuss these 'differences' in a way that translates as something meaningfull to another person. This implies the involvement of some kind of scientific methods that allow us to listen to different models and make comparisons that are consistent and repeatable.
The problem is that once such methods are employed the differences that are so obvious in subjective, sighted tests all but disappear. I have made some suggestions as to why I think we react to different models in the way that we do, but then it could all be just expectation bias...*unknw*
I was testing speakers for my k2 years ago. And the chap switched amps to the c356bee and the voices were much better to me than the k2 but the tonal balance was as if the bass had been set to max in comparrison to the k2.
I really like nad so why did it sound worse?
I really like nad so why did it sound worse?
Gazzip
Well-known member
Jota180
Well-known member
TrevC said:
and if they design that into all their amps they will therefore have a "house sound".
Gazzip
Well-known member
I was pondering last night this "house sound vs all amplifiers sound the same" issue and I wondered why manufacturers don't put bass, treble and bypass controls on their equipment anymore. Then a hypothesis slowly dawned on me. What if they took such controls off amplifiers in the first place precisely because all amplifiers in bypass mode do sound the same. What if they took them off and set their amplifier"s tone to a desired spot internally, creating a house sound and ergo a unique spot in the market place for themselves. What better way to manipulate a market than for all the major manufacturers to take the end user control out of the sound they got, making those users gravitate to products in the now differential market.
It would go a long way towards explaining why many will not put these controls back on.
It would go a long way towards explaining why many will not put these controls back on.
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