Amp with USB port

[mitadoc]

Hi there,

I am in a search of amp with USB capabilities.I found Denon DM39 but it`s too weak for me with its 30w per channel.Any idea if I can connect an USB hub to an amp?

The music will come from my PC but the soundcard is mediocre and I prefer to use the USB socket.

Thanks in advance.

Dim

 

[davedotco]

The Denon DM39 does not have a usb input for a computer, few budget components do.

What are you prepared to pay, and other than the usb input, what functions do you need?

 

[MajorFubar]

As above, but also:

Denon DM39 but it`s too weak for me with its 30w per channel

Unlikely to be the case unless you're trying to fill the Royal Albert Hall. The amount of misinformation out there about watts and power is astonishing, but take it from me that with half-decent medium or hi-sensitivity speakers in an average living room, 30W RMS per channel is very easily enough to go uncomfortably loud. Even 10W is.

 

[mitadoc]

Thanks for the inputs,mates. Actually, I wanted to have the best sound for £ 200ish ( amp + speakers + cables).

My first choice was Denon DM-39 paired with some Tannoy Mercury V1 or Mission MX1 .

I want to use the USB feature for playing files from the stick and of course - the DAB.

The 2nd option i to get some Topaz AM1 connected with my PC and to avoid the mediocre soundcard by using the Foobar2000. What do you think?

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the inputs,mates. Actually, I wanted to have the best sound for £ 200ish ( amp + speakers + cables).

My first choice was Denon DM-39 paired with some Tannoy Mercury V1 or Mission MX1 .

I want to use the USB feature for playing files from the stick and of course - the DAB.

The 2nd option i to get some Topaz AM1 connected with my PC and to avoid the mediocre soundcard by using the Foobar2000. What do you think?

I am now a little confused. The DM-39 has a Type A usb input, fine for suitably formated hard drives and memory sticks but unsuited for connection to a PC or laptop. This was your original requirement, or has that changed?

It seems to me that you really want the DM-39 and are doing whatever you can to accomodate it, If you want to use it with the computer add the Behringer UCA202 usb dac at just £25.

You were also concerned about power output, the DM-39 is around 20 watts/channel, fine for some, but nothing like enough if you want to play a bit louder. The UCA202 mentioned above will drive the Seiwin ST 5a or the bigger more powerful ST 6a, the latter has 80 + 40 watts in an active bi-amp configuration, so louder, punchier and far more control than any of the combos you mention and well under £200, leaving some change for cables.

 

[MajorFubar]

The DM-39 is around 20 watts/channel, fine for some, but nothing like enough if you want to play a bit louder.

While we generally agree on nearly everything ralating to HiFi, this is probably one of the few areas where we don't. In so far as I'd love to see what kind of living room it would take for a 20W RMS amp to be 'nothing like enough'. I've heard 10W RMS valve amps that easily went loud enough to make my ears ring, and my old 25W Cyrus One would have easily gone loud enough to cause permanent ear damage in a domestic environment. I've not done the maths but sitting three meters from a pair of 90dB speakers being fed 10W RMS p/c is probably akin to standing about six feet from a pneumatic drill.

 

[davedotco]

The DM-39 is around 20 watts/channel, fine for some, but nothing like enough if you want to play a bit louder.

While we generally agree on nearly everything ralating to HiFi, this is probably one of the few areas where we don't. In so far as I'd love to see what kind of living room it would take for a 20W RMS amp to be 'nothing like enough'. I've heard 10W RMS valve amps that easily went loud enough to make my ears ring, and my old 25W Cyrus One would have easily gone loud enough to cause permanent ear damage in a domestic environment. I've not done the maths but sitting three meters from a pair of 90dB speakers being fed 10W RMS p/c is probably akin to standing about six feet from a pneumatic drill.

For 'sensible' chaps like you and me you might well be right though your maths are over simplistic. There is so much more to this than you make out as I am sure you know.

Music has a dynamic range, reasonably decent modern recordings may have about 20dB, which we will take as a 'for instance'.

Assuming the Denon can produce 30watts peak (1.414 x rms at 8 ohms), on such music the maximum rms output, avoiding clipping is 3 watts, still pretty loud I grant you.

However if the speakers are less sensitive, say the budget average of 87dB, and maybe the listener likes a little bass boost, not uncommon on smaller speakers, we are beginning to run out of power. The Denon's power supply is pretty modest, so current capabilities are not huge and this makes a difference, particularly if, like most budget speakers they have a low impedence 'dip' around bass resonance.

And this is before we even begin to think about the matter of control, amps that are having to work hard seem to lose control of the speakers very quickly, boom and woofle becomes dominant, sure it might be quite loud but the quality will be appalling.

 

[davedotco]

Useless website....!

 

[mitadoc]

Sorry fot he confusion I made.i said that I have couple of options I believe :

1. Denon MD39 (which has an USB socket) + pair of Tannoy mercury V1 or Mission MX1

or

2. My old laptop ( with Foobar2000 installed to avoid the bad sound card) + Cambridge Topaz AM1 + the same choice of loudspeakers or some others up to £ 100

or

3. Again the old laptop + Denon PMA520E + the same choice of speakers

or

4. TEACAG790 + the same choice of speakers but no USB unfortunatley...

or

5. Maybe your suggestion?

USB is a really nice feature that I appreciate the most.

Thank you again for your help and comments. HAGWE

 

[spiny norman]

1. Denon MD39 (which has an USB socket) + pair of Tannoy mercury V1 or Mission MX1

As already mentioned, the DM39's USB socket is a Type-A, for the hook-up of iPods, iPads and the like, or USB memory devices; it's not suitable for the output from a computer's USB socket, which is what you want to do.

You'll need to use an external DAC between the computer and the DM39, as indeed you will with the PMA-520E amp you mention as a further option, the Cambridge Topaz AM1 and, as you note, the TEAC.

One other point: Foobar 2000 doesn't avoid the computer's soundcard, but is merely an audio player: to bypass the computer's onboard sound hardware you need an offboard soundcard or a USB DAC, which the computer will 'see' as a soundcard.

 

[mitadoc]

1. Denon MD39 (which has an USB socket) + pair of Tannoy mercury V1 or Mission MX1

As already mentioned, the DM39's USB socket is a Type-A, for the hook-up of iPods, iPads and the like, or USB memory devices; it's not suitable for the output from a computer's USB socket, which is what you want to do.

You'll need to use an external DAC between the computer and the DM39, as indeed you will with the PMA-520E amp you mention as a further option, the Cambridge Topaz AM1 and, as you note, the TEAC.

One other point: Foobar 2000 doesn't avoid the computer's soundcard, but is merely an audio player: to bypass the computer's onboard sound hardware you need an offboard soundcard or a USB DAC, which the computer will 'see' as a soundcard.

No, I wanted to say that this option is for playing the files on the Denon via USB stick or DAB or CD.

The other options are for my PC which will be the player actually. Is that clear,now?

And, can you recommend me some nice and decent bookshelf speakers up to £70 for DM-39?

I usually listen to rock&roll , drum'n'bass , pop , classic seldom.

10x.Dim

 

[tinkywinkydipsylalapo]

Is that clear,now?

No, not really. OK, so the Denon would be fine for just playing files from a USB stick, though having to copy stuff every time you want to play music coiuld rapidly become a pain, but I'm not sure what you mean by

The other options are for my PC which will be the player actually

If you wish to connect your computer to any of the other amps, you're either going to have to put up with the poor, and potentially interference-ridden, sound when connecting via the computer's headphone socket, or use a DAC between the computer's USB outout and any of the amps you mention.

And, can you recommend me some nice and decent bookshelf speakers up to £70 for DM-39?

Up to £70 might be pushing it for nice and decent speakers, unless you're prepared to consider secondhand. Buying new, the Roth OLi RA1 speakers are pretty good, and you can find them at around the £90 mark.

 

[davedotco]

Is that clear,now?

No, not really. OK, so the Denon would be fine for just playing files from a USB stick, though having to copy stuff every time you want to play music coiuld rapidly become a pain, but I'm not sure what you mean by

The other options are for my PC which will be the player actually

If you wish to connect your computer to any of the other amps, you're either going to have to put up with the poor, and potentially interference-ridden, sound when connecting via the computer's headphone socket, or use a DAC between the computer's USB outout and any of the amps you mention.

And, can you recommend me some nice and decent bookshelf speakers up to £70 for DM-39?

Up to £70 might be pushing it for nice and decent speakers, unless you're prepared to consider secondhand. Buying new, the Roth OLi RA1 speakers are pretty good, and you can find them at around the £90 mark.

Nice they may be but they are very inefficiant, The Denon will struggle at anything much above background level.

 

[tinkywinkydipsylalapo]

Nice they may be but they are very inefficiant, The Denon will struggle at anything much above background level.

Having tried the combination (which I wouldn't have suggested if I hadn't) when a friend asked my advice and subsequently bought the Roths to go with the Denon after we'd had a listen in the shop, I beg to differ: the DM-39/OLi RA1 combination is more than up the task of filling a modern new-build-proportioned living room with music as loud as most would ever want it, and without any signs of distortion or distress.

 

[davedotco]

Nice they may be but they are very inefficiant, The Denon will struggle at anything much above background level.

Having tried the combination (which I wouldn't have suggested if I hadn't) when a friend asked my advice and subsequently bought the Roths to go with the Denon after we'd had a listen in the shop, I beg to differ: the DM-39/OLi RA1 combination is more than up the task of filling a modern new-build-proportioned living room with music as loud as most would ever want it, and without any signs of distortion or distress.

Experience beats theory every time.

Low powered amps and 82dB/1w/1m speakers really should not work that well, but if they do....*good*

 

[spiny norman]

Experience beats theory every time.

Low powered amps and 82dB/1w/1m speakers really should not work that well, but if they do....*good*

Well, neither my friend nor I are great fans of neighbour-troubling 'front row of a Motörhead concert' levels in a domestic environment, as there's a time and a place for everything, and modern homes still don't seem to be built with anything much more than the output from a weedy iPod dock in mind when it comes to sound insulation.

However, within her requirements, the Marantz/Roth combination seems to go more than loud enough, and do so while retaining sufficient composure.

 

[davedotco]

The OP's opening post expresses concern about the power capabilities of the DM-39, that suggests, to me at least, that a bit of volume may be required, drum 'n' bass music is favoured too.

*unknw*

 

[MajorFubar]

For 'sensible' chaps like you and me you might well be right though your maths are over simplistic. There is so much more to this than you make out as I am sure you know.

Music has a dynamic range, reasonably decent modern recordings may have about 20dB, which we will take as a 'for instance'.

Assuming the Denon can produce 30watts peak (1.414 x rms at 8 ohms), on such music the maximum rms output, avoiding clipping is 3 watts, still pretty loud I grant you.

However if the speakers are less sensitive, say the budget average of 87dB, and maybe the listener likes a little bass boost, not uncommon on smaller speakers, we are beginning to run out of power. The Denon's power supply is pretty modest, so current capabilities are not huge and this makes a difference, particularly if, like most budget speakers they have a low impedence 'dip' around bass resonance.

And this is before we even begin to think about the matter of control, amps that are having to work hard seem to lose control of the speakers very quickly, boom and woofle becomes dominant, sure it might be quite loud but the quality will be appalling.

Guess I'm sort of with you. Of course when I talk about 20W amps I mean those with a decent beefy power supply behind them like the Cyrus One which has no problem delivering high current at low power. Sorry if I took it O/T; I just felt on this occasion the O/P was dismissing a product he'd never heard based on how loud he perceived a 30W amp was going to sound, without realising tha in fact 30W delivered cleanly through the right speakers is in fact freakin' loud in an average room. The long and the short of my argument was that it's not as simplistic as just looking at the numbers; don't just dismiss it because of it's perceived low output. But truth is it doesn't suit his requirements anyway: lack of USB.

 

[davedotco]

When it comes to 20/25 watt amplifiers, I don't think the DM-39 is any match for this......

 

[MajorFubar]

lol! No probably not!