Amp servicing

[chris_bates1974]

So, have seen mention on here a few times with regard to servicing amps. Mine is now 16 years old, and despite faultess perfromace so far, it'll be another 18 months to 2 years before it gets replaced.

I'm wondering then, whether it is worth having mine serviced? And, if it would be possible to do myself (!). What's actually involved, and what kind of difference should it make?

Thanks very much everyone....

 

[Vladimir]

In parts:

Labor could be 5-10 times more.

DIY isn't hard for the Cyrus 5 (presuming no SMD work needed). One simple board, dozen caps. No pots and switches to clean, just two relays.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Can I assume that by "caps" you mean capacitors? Are they easy to take out and replace?

Will it make a massive difference?

 

[super]

Naim audio service their amps and one of the main things they change are the capacitors. But if you're going to replace yours anyway within a couple of years i wouldn't bother.

 

[Vladimir]

Can I assume that by "caps" you mean capacitors? Are they easy to take out and replace?

Will it make a massive difference?

What you need to do is watch A LOT of repair videos of amps and receivers on Youtube first. Or save up 200 quid (worst case scenario) and have a tech do it.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Thanks very much Vlad.... I'll certainly have a look.... Bearing in mind that from what I can tell, mine is worth around £150, I may well keep it once the upgrade happens and use it to experiment!

 

[drummerman]

Thanks very much Vlad.... I'll certainly have a look.... Bearing in mind that from what I can tell, mine is worth around £150, I may well keep it once the upgrade happens and use it to experiment!

I'd say you would have to spend around 600 quid to get anything that is even slightly better and would base a decision on that.

If you plan to definitively get shot of it soon I wouldn't bother though if all is functioning well.

By the way, use an invisible marker on all the caps if you get it done. That way you can tell what has been changed.

 

[Vladimir]

Thanks very much Vlad.... I'll certainly have a look.... Bearing in mind that from what I can tell, mine is worth around £150, I may well keep it once the upgrade happens and use it to experiment!

I'd say you would have to spend around 600 quid to get anything that is even slightly better and would base a decision on that.

If you plan to definitively get shot of it soon I wouldn't bother though if all is functioning well.

By the way, use an invisible marker on all the caps if you get it done. That way you can tell what has been changed.

I wouldn't touch it untill it reaches at least 30 y/o. It uses decent japanese caps, they will last long.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Thanks very much everyone....

The plan is to spend around £2000-£2500 when I do upgrade. I will want that one to last 20 years too!!!

Really had no clue as to how long these thngs should last when I bought it, and certainly I have been more than happy with it, it has served me very well whilst I have changed every other component!

 

[Vladimir]

I have a Technics SU-7700 amp from 1978 and only work done on it is changing electrolytic capacitors (caps) and cleaning the relay. That's it! And it still rocks.

 

[Oldphrt]

So, have seen mention on here a few times with regard to servicing amps. Mine is now 16 years old, and despite faultess perfromace so far, it'll be another 18 months to 2 years before it gets replaced.

I'm wondering then, whether it is worth having mine serviced? And, if it would be possible to do myself (!). What's actually involved, and what kind of difference should it make?

Thanks very much everyone....

Just leave it alone until a fault becomes apparent.

 

[nopiano]

Naim audio service their amps and one of the main things they change are the capacitors. But if you're going to replace yours anyway within a couple of years i wouldn't bother.

I can't decide if this is just a chance to extract money from gullible customers, or if it really improves an aging amp. If the latter, why do they fit such inferior components?

There are plenty on Naim forums who testify how marvellous their amp sounded when it comes back. But my amp sounds marvellous after I've been away on holiday!

 

[drummerman]

Naim audio service their amps and one of the main things they change are the capacitors. But if you're going to replace yours anyway within a couple of years i wouldn't bother.

I can't decide if this is just a chance to extract money from gullible customers, or if it really improves an aging amp. If the latter, why do they fit such inferior components?

There are plenty on Naim forums who testify how marvellous their amp sounded when it comes back. But my amp sounds marvellous after I've been away on holiday!

They don't usually fit inferior components per se but there is clearly a choice of vfm parts for manufacturers.

A lot has to do with how folks use the amps.

I know a guy that still uses his Olive Naims and never had anything done to them.

Having said that, a japanese made Nichicon may well be better, longer lasting than a chinese made counterpart. I wouldn't know.

Its also not always the electrolytes that most people think about (the main ones) that fail. In my CDP (cyrus) one of the small panasonic SFM which act to regulate power supply to the transport failed.

They could even have been damaged/compromised by a solder machine which has not been maintained or heated to much at point of hand soldering.

So many variables.

What is indesputable is that a well ventilated chassis and a lot of space between parts can only be a good thing. This makes Cyrus and other tightly packed products suspect in theory but there are plenty of those out there that have been going for 20+ years without problems.

I guess its a bit like going out and being run over by a bus ... or not.

A bit of luck of the draw.

Happy Easter x

 

[Vladimir]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

 

[drummerman]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense. 

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

 

[jjbomber]

There are plenty on Naim forums who testify how marvellous their amp sounded when it comes back. But my amp sounds marvellous after I've been away on holiday!

But it's cheaper to have an amp serviced than to go away on holiday.

 

[Vladimir]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market.

 

[drummerman]

There are plenty on Naim forums who testify how marvellous their amp sounded when it comes back. But my amp sounds marvellous after I've been away on holiday!

But it's cheaper to have an amp serviced than to go away on holiday.

 

[drummerman]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market.

Quite a few Rega amps hum. Quite a few Exposure amps hum, Some Densen ones hum.

Perhaps its the humming that makes them more musical ... ?

SS amps that rarely ever hum are from the Far East. Make of that what you will.

 

[insider9]

Just leave it alone until a fault becomes apparent.

You wouldn't do that to a car, so why would you do it to an amp?

If OP decides to sell it in the near future most if not all of the money put towards service would be recouped. If he decides to keep it it'll be fine for years to come.

As long as the service is done by an authorised repair centre or simply someone reputable it's a win-win imho.

 

[Vladimir]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market.

Quite a few Rega amps hum. Quite a few Exposure amps hum, Some Densen ones hum.

Perhaps its the humming that makes them more musical ... ?

SS amps that rarely ever hum are from the Far East. Make of that what you will.

I don't think it's that big of a deal really. But people generally freak out when they hear the hum/buzz for the first time. Naim, Rega and Exposure all use top quality transformer brands. It's not due to cost cutting, but IMO simply faulty designs that prevail in the UK cottage industry. Different sells.

 

[drummerman]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market.

Quite a few Rega amps hum. Quite a few Exposure amps hum, Some Densen ones hum.

Perhaps its the humming that makes them more musical ... ?

SS amps that rarely ever hum are from the Far East. Make of that what you will.

I don't think it's that big of a deal really. But people generally freak out when they hear the hum/buzz for the first time. Naim, Rega and Exposure all use top quality transformer brands. It's not due to cost cutting, but IMO simply faulty designs that prevail in the UK cottage industry. Different sells.

I think a persistent buzz/hum would annoy me. I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) which buzzed in tune with screen brightness. Annoyed the hell out of me.

Anyway, picking up my Sony Receiver from storage this afternoon. Will insert that one instead of my cyrus stuff for an afternoon. See if that makes me want to listen to music a bit more lately. No hum from either one I must mention

 

[Vladimir]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense. 

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market. 

Quite a few Rega amps hum. Quite a few Exposure amps hum, Some Densen ones hum.

Perhaps its the humming that makes them more musical ... ?

SS amps that rarely ever hum are from the Far East. Make of that what you will.

I don't think it's that big of a deal really. But people generally freak out when they hear the hum/buzz for the first time. Naim, Rega and Exposure all use top quality transformer brands. It's not due to cost cutting, but IMO simply faulty designs that prevail in the UK cottage industry. Different sells.

I think a persistent buzz/hum would annoy me. I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) which buzzed in tune with screen brightness. Annoyed the hell out of me.

Anyway, picking up my Sony Receiver from storage this afternoon. Will insert that one instead of my cyrus stuff for an afternoon. See if that makes me want to listen to music a bit more lately. No hum from either one I must mention  

Lay off politics and news for a while. No one ever felt good after watching that.

Enjoy the Takashi Kanai high-end budget goodness.

 

[drummerman]

It's not a scam. Naim amplification topology is such primitive rubbish, it has to completely rely on components quality, precision and matching to work at all. This is why they handpick everything at the factory. Problem with those tantalum caps they use is that they drift from their values over time and even explode sensationaly. I'm sure the new Kemet SMD ones are not as bad as the old ones, but still it is their thing they do. They still use them because they have much tighter tolerances than electrolytics. The Class B circuitry is always on the edge of working and not working, balancing act of such magnitude that hearing washing machine or transformer hum is deemed acceptable compromise.

Naim amps need regular maintanance to check and keep everything withing design tolerances. Again, it's not as bad as in the early days when components were generaly of lower performance than today and when Naim was a cottage industry business with significantly lower build quality than big corporations.

Why do the customers tolerate it? I think they even welcome it. It's a business model and a culture buble. I wont say a cult, but narrower interest niche in our hobby. Naim can build spectacular amps if they want to, but the customers want the whift of Julian's cottage industry days. They want the good and the bad. None of that flat, neutral, smooth or warm nonsense.

Perhaps it's because customers like the Naim sound?

I know it's almost unthinkable ... .

Naim even developed their own output transistors for their newer amps.

I would certainly not call Naim unreliable. No more than other brands.

I'd call it more unrealiable than other brands. Hum and noise matter to the normal musical enthusiast.

However, if you like what they are selling (the sound, the culture) nothing else will do. The formula for success in any niche market.

Quite a few Rega amps hum. Quite a few Exposure amps hum, Some Densen ones hum.

Perhaps its the humming that makes them more musical ... ?

SS amps that rarely ever hum are from the Far East. Make of that what you will.

I don't think it's that big of a deal really. But people generally freak out when they hear the hum/buzz for the first time. Naim, Rega and Exposure all use top quality transformer brands. It's not due to cost cutting, but IMO simply faulty designs that prevail in the UK cottage industry. Different sells.

I think a persistent buzz/hum would annoy me. I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) which buzzed in tune with screen brightness. Annoyed the hell out of me.

Anyway, picking up my Sony Receiver from storage this afternoon. Will insert that one instead of my cyrus stuff for an afternoon. See if that makes me want to listen to music a bit more lately. No hum from either one I must mention

Lay off politics and news for a while. No one ever felt good after watching that.

Enjoy the Takashi Kanai high-end budget goodness.

 

[insider9]

Anyway, picking up my Sony Receiver from storage this afternoon. Will insert that one instead of my cyrus stuff for an afternoon. See if that makes me want to listen to music a bit more lately. No hum from either one I must mention

I think I know which one this is I've been listening to mine for the last 2 weeks. Granted with room correction applied but will be interesting to see once I go back to listening without and how it compares to Primare after a few weeks of listening.

Let us know how you get on.