Advise a new system for TT

[dimebucker]

Hi,

Im going to upgrade my crappy 1990's sony hifi system but need some suggestions (i only listen to vinyl)!

i've been looking at various 5.1 systems but none seem compatible - at least they require an external phono pre-amp, but im not sure doing this will yield a good sound quality, after all, these systems were not desiged for vinyl and most have digital signal processors (surely I might as well convert all my music to mp3?).

So does anyone have a suggestion for a new (or second hand) system, any help would be much appriciated!

P.S. I have quite a large room with double height ceiling.

 

[Captain Duff]

What sort of budget are you looking to spend, and what type of music do you listen to?

Also, as you only listen to vinyl is it definately just a turntable, amp and speakers that you are looking for?

Finally, when it comes to the turntable are you a leave it alone once working straight out of the box or a tweeker type?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi. As you don't specify how much you want to spend on your vinyl only system here are a few tips. The system will only be as good as the deck. The quality of the motor unit is vital for the arm and cartridge to give their best. The amp and speakers are also at the mercy of the deck, rubish in-rubish out. The basic rule is to spend as much of the budget on the turntable first, even if it means buying a cheaper amp and speakers to begin with. If the deck is a good one, when you upgrade the amp and speakers later you will hear more of the decks quality rather than its shortcomings. If you let me know your budget I can be more specific.

 

[dimebucker]

Quite small budget im afraid - about 500 to 600 euro, i've got a feeling you're gonna tell me this is how much i should spend on the turntable itself!

I listen to a wide range of funk, soul, rock, disco and reagae. I am prepared to do a small amount of tweaking (i record music and know a bit about mixing)

Maybe something with some other rca input just in case i need to play other formats...

Thanks guys!

 

[The_Lhc]

Why are you thinking about 5.1 systems?

 

[Sabby]

5.1 systems and turntables don't go together. Turntable is strictly stereo and doesn't need a 5.1 system. You have to decide what you want.

 

[dimebucker]

a safe bet maybe:

http://hifihipster.com/2010/09/an-affordable-hifi-stereo-system-for-vinyl/

but would it be loud enough?

 

[dimebucker]

this would be a cheap route i suppose:

http://hifihipster.com/2010/09/an-affordable-hifi-stereo-system-for-vinyl

Would this be loud enough?

 

[dimebucker]

Ok... i was looking at 5.1 systems because my room is quite large (i thought i would need a speaker in each corner), but i am happy to go with a loud stereo system.

EDIT: Ive just realised that there is no reason i cant have four speakers with a stereo system :doh:

This would be a cheap option i suppose, but would it be loud enough?

http://hifihipster.com/2010/09/an-affordable-hifi-stereo-system-for-vinyl/

 

[Captain Duff]

Right, so working on a budget of around £450 in the UK, I would be tempted to spend around half of it on a turntable. If buying new then a Pro-ject Debut or Rega RP1 are obvious choices at around £200 - £250 and will play well out of the box with minimum set up.

That doesn't leave too much for an amp and speakers - you could perhaps spend the rest on an amp and as a temporary measure use your current sony speakers until money allows you to buy better later, but be aware that some cheaper amps (and even some expensive ones) don't come with a phono stage so that would mean extra for a phono pre-amp. However, the Onkyo A9155 could be a good choice for you as it has a built in phono stage, is rated at a respectable 55 watts and can be got for around £140 if you shop around.

That could leave around £100 for speakers. It is possible to get brands like Eltax floorstanders new for that sort of price (which means you don't have to budget for stands), but a bookshelf for that price would give better quality if you get stands cheap elsewhere (or later), plus make sure you budget for some QED 79 speaker cable (or similar) as it will not break the bank but will make a good difference.

But of course with your budget s/h is the way to go but is harder to advise on - however if you are quoting Euros and are in northern/central Europe then there is a good chance you could pick up an old Thorens turntable reasonably cheaply, as I noticed when I was looking for mine that the German and Dutch ebay sites had a lot more Thorens choice than the UK for obvious reasons. TD-280's and TD-320's are sometimes particularly cheap but for £200 - £250 you should be able to find a 160/165/166 in reasonable condition with an arm that should be an improvement on a new Project or Rega for the same money.

 

[dimebucker]

Thankyou very much you've been very helpful :cheers: , gonna get on it straight away, i live in Ireland by the way!

How do you rate Cambridge Audio amps? (they seem fairly cheap also)

 

[Captain Duff]

The cheap Cambridge amps are great for the money, but they don't have a built-in phono input stage so you would then need to budget for an external one to go with them - so around another £50 upwards, hence the Onkyo being such good value for turntable users (the next budget amp with a phono input would probably be the Marantz 5004, but that may start to stretch your given budget slightly, but it is probably a more rounded amp than the Onkyo - be worth seeing if there was a dealer nearby who had both and was willing to demo).

However, in terms of s/h amps I would recommend an old Nad 3020 which you should be able to get for between £40 and £80 on the bay, and which has (unlike the modern Nad's) a great phono stage. I've only just stopped using my old one after more than 30 years(!) - and for a budget amp it is very smooth with good bass, so good for the music you indicated you like - and it would probably stand up well against a modern new Cambridge or the Onkyo. The only downside with them is they have the push in spring clips rather than proper binding posts for speaker cable, so something thinner than the QED 79 standard would actually be better. Also, don't worry that it is only rated at 20 watts - they do go loud enough for most domestic situations!

 

[shropshire lad]

+ 1 for a NAD 3020 . There are three on mine still working away happily around my house after 30 years .

 

[Captain Duff]

So the choice could come down to whether you get a new TT - the Project or RP1 - or s/h, perhaps a rega Planer 2 for up to £100 or Planer 3 for up to £200 - but if you are unsure about wear and tear, and the issue of probably needing a new stylus for a s/h one, then new could be better for you and peace of mind. The old Nad amps are built like tanks, hence lasting for decades and if you get one of those cheap it could then mean you would have around £150 left for a decent s/h set of floor stander speakers (will fill your large room better with sound, and normally give bigger bass) - just look out for the usual suspects like Tannoy, Kef, Mission, Mordant Short, Monitor Audio etc.

The beauty about buying floorstanders s/h is that they are normally collection only due to size/weight, so that cuts down the bidders considerably and should mean prices stay lower. Just make sure there are no dents in the cones from rug rats and that the main cones move in and out freely when you give them a gentle push and you should be fine.

Oh, and the Projects and Rega's aren't suspended decks so are more prone to being affected by external vibration. Put on a proper shelf or hifi rack of possible, if not then you can make an effective diy isolation platform for them very cheaply - a large thick hardwood cutting board or butchers block big enough for them to sit on that you can stick some rubber isolating feet on, sorbothane is considered best, but can be pricy - people have cut old squash balls in half and stuck those on with good effect in the past! Alternatively, places that do marble kitchen worktops often have off-cuts the right size that are very cheap and work great with some isolating rubber feet added.

But regardless of all that, I'm pretty sure that within your budget you can get a decent budget hifi system that will blow you away compared to the Sony stack you are currently using

 

[CJSF]

So the choice could come down to whether you get a new TT - the Project or RP1 - or s/h, perhaps a rega Planer 2 for up to £100 or Planer 3 for up to £200 - but if you are unsure about wear and tear, and the issue of probably needing a new stylus for a s/h one, then new could be better for you and peace of mind. The old Nad amps are built like tanks, hence lasting for decades and if you get one of those cheap it could then mean you would have around £150 left for a decent s/h set of floor stander speakers (will fill your large room better with sound, and normally give bigger bass) - just look out for the usual suspects like Tannoy, Kef, Mission, Mordant Short, Monitor Audio etc.

The beauty about buying floorstanders s/h is that they are normally collection only due to size/weight, so that cuts down the bidders considerably and should mean prices stay lower. Just make sure there are no dents in the cones from rug rats and that the main cones move in and out freely when you give them a gentle push and you should be fine.

Oh, and the Projects and Rega's aren't suspended decks so are more prone to being affected by external vibration. Put on a proper shelf or hifi rack of possible, if not then you can make an effective diy isolation platform for them very cheaply - a large thick hardwood cutting board or butchers block big enough for them to sit on that you can stick some rubber isolating feet on, sorbothane is considered best, but can be pricy - people have cut old squash balls in half and stuck those on with good effect in the past! Alternatively, places that do marble kitchen worktops often have off-cuts the right size that are very cheap and work great with some isolating rubber feet added.

But regardless of all that, I'm pretty sure that within your budget you can get a decent budget hifi system that will blow you away compared to the Sony stack you are currently using

All that 'heavy, thick wood and marble slab stuff' . . . not always a good thing where turntables are concerned . . . take care???

CJSF

 

[chebby]

All that 'heavy, thick wood and marble slab stuff' . . . not always a good thing where turntables are concerned . . . take care???

CJSF

CJSF is right. Think rigid (very rigid) and light/skeletal.

The best supports - if you were blessed with solid floors - used to be the Sound Organisation tables. (Target and Apollo used to make similar ones.)

Rega themselves have always sold their own welded wall support...

...however, there is no adjustment so it needs to be fixed to a dead plumb wall. (And the 'cups' are aligned just for Rega's arrangement of three feet so it's useless if you change turntable one day.)

Pro-ject make similar wall supports that are adjustable and have a normal platform that will take any turntable.

 

[Captain Duff]

Yes, and I've got a great Target platform that I'm still using after 3 decades (with a few additional tweeks along the way), but the OP has a very imited budget and so will have nothing left for a turntable support costing a hundred or more, hence the DIY pointers...

 

[Captain Duff]

.

 

[CJSF]

Yes, and I've got a great Target platform that I'm still using after 3 decades (with a few additional tweeks along the way), but the OP has a very imited budget and so will have nothing left for a turntable support costing a hundred or more, hence the DIY pointers...

. . . I had a majour problem, small room, lots of doors, bookcases and shelves, no room for a TT floor support, not time to re vamp the room at present, so the unsuspended Rega TT had to go on the 'book case/ draw cupboard'. Feed back was a serious problem.

I went the granite slab rout, it helped but not happy, removed the granite, leaving in its place a half inch MDF board, isolated by the wooden blocks that were drilled and taped to 6mm and dumpy spikes pointing 'up' screwed in, worked a treat. I'm a tweaker so I went a stage further and removed the standard Rega Rubber feet and replaced then with the beautiful rose wood spikes, the improvements were subtle . . . for me worth the £18 I paid on fleBay.

The basic isolation board is a piece of B&Q 12mm 18"x15" MDF off cut, the wooden blocks are some scrape mahogany I had laying around, a 5mm hole drilled and taped to 6mm for level adjustment via the spikes. The whole lot will not cost more than £10 to £15, including a 6mm tap from fleBay. There are other things and the wooden spiked feet that I would not bother with at this level.

The Croft Valve amp is on the shelf above and Rega CDp on the shelf above that, both sit well on sound isolated granite slabs . . .

If I wanted a table, I would visit the local charity shop, cheap coffee tables are always on offer, I have a very light one in my living room, came from the 'Heart Foundation', its earmarked as a possible TT suport one day, re painted or striped, nice table cloth and then the MDF off cut suport on top? . . . or I will make a wall mouted one from finley cut striped oak.

CJSF

 

[shropshire lad]

All this talk of turntable shelves is very interesting but not very helpful to the OP who is still at the stage of looking for something to put on them .

For what it is worth , I am still using my 30 year old NAD3020 and Rega Planar 3 as a second system and they still sound fine . I'm sure the " people who know more than me on the subject " will have some better suggestions , but with some decent modern speakers this little system could be a good way to start into the world of proper HI FI .

Good luck with your search .

 

[chebby]

... but the OP has a very imited budget and so will have nothing left for a turntable support costing a hundred or more, hence the DIY pointers...

He's got 500 - 600 Euros.

 

[dimebucker]

Wow, picked up a NAD3020 for next to nothing yesterday (€60), i can pretty much spend my whole budget on TT and speakers, which is useful as i think i need four speakers due to my room size.

thanks again for the info, looking into floorstanders as we speak!

 

[Lost Angeles]

Wow, picked up a NAD3020 for next to nothing yesterday (€60), i can pretty much spend my whole budget on TT and speakers, which is useful as i think i need four speakers due to my room size.

thanks again for the info, looking into floorstanders as we speak!

Why do you need 4 speakers, do you live in a Cathedral?

 

[CJSF]

All this talk of turntable shelves is very interesting but not very helpful to the OP who is still at the stage of looking for something to put on them .

For what it is worth , I am still using my 30 year old NAD3020 and Rega Planar 3 as a second system and they still sound fine . I'm sure the " people who know more than me on the subject " will have some better suggestions , but with some decent modern speakers this little system could be a good way to start into the world of proper HI FI .

Good luck with your search .

It dont matter at what level, the basics of TT suport has to be observed to extract the best and 'most from the least' . . . otherwise you just end up chasing your tail. My solution cant get much more basic . . . ?

. . . This is where I bow out and let you sort it . . . the simplest basic advise questioned? . . . no thanks, nothing changes.

 

[dimebucker]

not quite a cathedral but a large room 4x8m with a ceiling that goes right up to the apex of the roof (~5m)

Maybe il start off with just two speakers and work from there..

There are some great deals on the bay for Tannoy mercury V4s at the moment :?