Adding a subwoofer to two channel music system

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SteveR750

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Mar 11, 2005
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I love my 800ne. Which Elac speakers do you have? I think Elac speakers are great.
DFSR62s. What a find they are! I'm sufficiently impressed with the Denon, I'm already thinking of bigger. The model lineup though doesn't have a conventional tiered approach, as in some features are added, and others dropped as you move up the range. A 900ne is quite different from the 800ne, and so on.
 

robdmarsh

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Jun 28, 2015
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Good to know that the Denon has enough juice to power the debut reference floorstanders. I know what you mean about the Denon range of amps. The 800ne is fantastic to my ears and beats out other more expensive offerings such as Audiolab 6000a and Rotel A11 Tribute. I tried both here in my house and for me the Denon wins. The 900hne, though looking like a great value proposition on paper, would be one to avoid in my opinion. And that is because I think you could do better with an off board streaming solution than the one this offers. Heos has pretty mixed reviews as an interface and I think you could do better DAC wise. In fact I'm not bothered about having a separate streamer at all as the SQ through bluetooth with the ifi Zen One signature is just wonderful. I may try a cheap streamer to plug into this in the future but at the moment I'm very happy.

On a side note I wouldn't worry about losing a sub out if you go further up the range. I've just ordered a Rel t5i sub which connects best with the normal speaker terminals and their high level connection on the sub.
 

robdmarsh

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Jun 28, 2015
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DFSR62s. What a find they are! I'm sufficiently impressed with the Denon, I'm already thinking of bigger. The model lineup though doesn't have a conventional tiered approach, as in some features are added, and others dropped as you move up the range. A 900ne is quite different from the 800ne, and so on.
Did you try any other floorstanders before you got the Elacs?
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
694
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Did you try any other floorstanders before you got the Elacs?
No, I wanted standmounts. I bought some Diamond 9.1s initially for £99, but didn't like them. Bought the Elacs on the basis of ASR review and then several net reviews. The context of this is I'm absolutely not a subjectivist, if it measures well, then it is well. The big caveats are of course room response and HRTF, both of which are unique, but the solution for me lies in solving them directly, not in trying to second guess or worse use others subjective reviews to match hardware to the environment. I'm no longer obsessed with nth amount of detail or nuance, more that a component is low distortion, and sufficient power. Get those right, and with room caveats above, a system should sound good, enough to get excited by the music you enjoy. I'm thinking about upgrading the Denon, only because more power would be good, plus there are additional connectivity features that would be useful to have.
 

robdmarsh

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2015
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No, I wanted standmounts. I bought some Diamond 9.1s initially for £99, but didn't like them. Bought the Elacs on the basis of ASR review and then several net reviews. The context of this is I'm absolutely not a subjectivist, if it measures well, then it is well. The big caveats are of course room response and HRTF, both of which are unique, but the solution for me lies in solving them directly, not in trying to second guess or worse use others subjective reviews to match hardware to the environment. I'm no longer obsessed with nth amount of detail or nuance, more that a component is low distortion, and sufficient power. Get those right, and with room caveats above, a system should sound good, enough to get excited by the music you enjoy. I'm thinking about upgrading the Denon, only because more power would be good, plus there are additional connectivity features that would be useful to have.
You're the opposite to me I pay no attention to measurements. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration but there are plenty of examples of speakers that measure "poorly" that sound very good. I had the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 many years ago and thought they were awful, but then again every modern Diamond speaker I've heard sounded awful.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
694
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You're the opposite to me I pay no attention to measurements. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration but there are plenty of examples of speakers that measure "poorly" that sound very good. I had the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 many years ago and thought they were awful, but then again every modern Diamond speaker I've heard sounded awful.
I'm an engineer, so I'm used to using reliable data in my day job! I'd challenge the authenticity that components that measure poorly sound good, by whose definition, by using what standard? A more appropriate description might be that you like the sound, not that it's good. This is the problem with subjective assessments, they are rarely reliably transferable.
 

robdmarsh

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2015
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I'm an engineer, so I'm used to using reliable data in my day job! I'd challenge the authenticity that components that measure poorly sound good, by whose definition, by using what standard? A more appropriate description might be that you like the sound, not that it's good. This is the problem with subjective assessments, they are rarely reliably transferable.
It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.
 
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It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.
Again very subjective, I think I would prefer vinyl to a lossy mp3 file..... :)
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
694
108
19,070
It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.
This is true, it's OK to enjoy sound that isn't the truth, or even claim to hear a difference where none exists, so long as that isn't accepted and communicated as truth.. Without measurement none of this stuff would be manufactured in the first place.
A good speaker engineer will know exactly the effect of different materials, construction; plenty of interviews with designers like Andrew Jones to prove that. It really is a science, not an art to engineering good products.
 

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