Adding a subwoofer to two channel music system

[SteveR750]

I love my 800ne. Which Elac speakers do you have? I think Elac speakers are great.

DFSR62s. What a find they are! I'm sufficiently impressed with the Denon, I'm already thinking of bigger. The model lineup though doesn't have a conventional tiered approach, as in some features are added, and others dropped as you move up the range. A 900ne is quite different from the 800ne, and so on.

 

[robdmarsh]

Good to know that the Denon has enough juice to power the debut reference floorstanders. I know what you mean about the Denon range of amps. The 800ne is fantastic to my ears and beats out other more expensive offerings such as Audiolab 6000a and Rotel A11 Tribute. I tried both here in my house and for me the Denon wins. The 900hne, though looking like a great value proposition on paper, would be one to avoid in my opinion. And that is because I think you could do better with an off board streaming solution than the one this offers. Heos has pretty mixed reviews as an interface and I think you could do better DAC wise. In fact I'm not bothered about having a separate streamer at all as the SQ through bluetooth with the ifi Zen One signature is just wonderful. I may try a cheap streamer to plug into this in the future but at the moment I'm very happy.

On a side note I wouldn't worry about losing a sub out if you go further up the range. I've just ordered a Rel t5i sub which connects best with the normal speaker terminals and their high level connection on the sub.

 

[robdmarsh]

DFSR62s. What a find they are! I'm sufficiently impressed with the Denon, I'm already thinking of bigger. The model lineup though doesn't have a conventional tiered approach, as in some features are added, and others dropped as you move up the range. A 900ne is quite different from the 800ne, and so on.

Did you try any other floorstanders before you got the Elacs?

 

[SteveR750]

Did you try any other floorstanders before you got the Elacs?

No, I wanted standmounts. I bought some Diamond 9.1s initially for £99, but didn't like them. Bought the Elacs on the basis of ASR review and then several net reviews. The context of this is I'm absolutely not a subjectivist, if it measures well, then it is well. The big caveats are of course room response and HRTF, both of which are unique, but the solution for me lies in solving them directly, not in trying to second guess or worse use others subjective reviews to match hardware to the environment. I'm no longer obsessed with nth amount of detail or nuance, more that a component is low distortion, and sufficient power. Get those right, and with room caveats above, a system should sound good, enough to get excited by the music you enjoy. I'm thinking about upgrading the Denon, only because more power would be good, plus there are additional connectivity features that would be useful to have.

 

[robdmarsh]

No, I wanted standmounts. I bought some Diamond 9.1s initially for £99, but didn't like them. Bought the Elacs on the basis of ASR review and then several net reviews. The context of this is I'm absolutely not a subjectivist, if it measures well, then it is well. The big caveats are of course room response and HRTF, both of which are unique, but the solution for me lies in solving them directly, not in trying to second guess or worse use others subjective reviews to match hardware to the environment. I'm no longer obsessed with nth amount of detail or nuance, more that a component is low distortion, and sufficient power. Get those right, and with room caveats above, a system should sound good, enough to get excited by the music you enjoy. I'm thinking about upgrading the Denon, only because more power would be good, plus there are additional connectivity features that would be useful to have.

You're the opposite to me I pay no attention to measurements. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration but there are plenty of examples of speakers that measure "poorly" that sound very good. I had the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 many years ago and thought they were awful, but then again every modern Diamond speaker I've heard sounded awful.

 

[SteveR750]

You're the opposite to me I pay no attention to measurements. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration but there are plenty of examples of speakers that measure "poorly" that sound very good. I had the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 many years ago and thought they were awful, but then again every modern Diamond speaker I've heard sounded awful.

I'm an engineer, so I'm used to using reliable data in my day job! I'd challenge the authenticity that components that measure poorly sound good, by whose definition, by using what standard? A more appropriate description might be that you like the sound, not that it's good. This is the problem with subjective assessments, they are rarely reliably transferable.

 

[robdmarsh]

I'm an engineer, so I'm used to using reliable data in my day job! I'd challenge the authenticity that components that measure poorly sound good, by whose definition, by using what standard? A more appropriate description might be that you like the sound, not that it's good. This is the problem with subjective assessments, they are rarely reliably transferable.

It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.

 

[Al ears]

It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.

Again very subjective, I think I would prefer vinyl to a lossy mp3 file.....

 

[SteveR750]

It cannot be denied that measurements are of course important. But we don't listen to measurements, we listen to tone, timbre and voicing of a speaker and these are affected by the design of the speakers and the materials used in their design and it's much harder to pin down why we prefer one of these designs or materials over another. If good measurements were the be all and end all of audio then we wouldn't (or at least some us) still be listening to vinyl which measures so badly.

This is true, it's OK to enjoy sound that isn't the truth, or even claim to hear a difference where none exists, so long as that isn't accepted and communicated as truth.. Without measurement none of this stuff would be manufactured in the first place.
A good speaker engineer will know exactly the effect of different materials, construction; plenty of interviews with designers like Andrew Jones to prove that. It really is a science, not an art to engineering good products.

 

[mcsweej]

Adding a subwoofer for me has been one of the greatest sound improvements, unless you have full range speakers a good sub will take the sound down to 20 htz. I held off myself due to concerns regarding integration & positioning. However I’ve really found that it adds a foundation to the sound, just making everything sound fuller with an expanded sound stage.

Depending on the make / model of sub you can always use a high level connection directly off the amps speaker terminals as recommended by REL or if the amp has a pre out use the low level connection using an appropriate length interconnect.

Worth thinking about what type of floor you might consider using the REL t5i with as it is down firing modal, which whilst rel claims that this boosts base relative to the size of the woofer may not be so suited to a suspended floor. Iam using SVS sb 1000 subs which have been great to my ears.

Hello, I'm brand new here, and pretty new to hifi in general.

I currently connect my powered sub using parallel connections with speaker wire. From my integrated amp, I’m sending 2 sets of wires from each 8 ohm output. 1 set to the front speakers, and one set to each side of the sub. From what I’ve read, this is not the best way. The sub does have left/right Line level RCA in/out, but I’m not sure how to connect and don’t want to harm anything. My amp has L/R pre-amp outputs. Can I use RCA cables to send to the subwoofer? And if so, will this bypass the EQ and volume capability when using the front controls of my amp?
Equipment: McIntosh intergraded MA6900, SVS SB-1000.

 

[AJM1981]

Hello, I'm brand new here, and pretty new to hifi in general.

I currently connect my powered sub using parallel connections with speaker wire. From my integrated amp, I’m sending 2 sets of wires from each 8 ohm output. 1 set to the front speakers, and one set to each side of the sub. From what I’ve read, this is not the best way. The sub does have left/right Line level RCA in/out, but I’m not sure how to connect and don’t want to harm anything. My amp has L/R pre-amp outputs. Can I use RCA cables to send to the subwoofer? And if so, will this bypass the EQ and volume capability when using the front controls of my amp?
Equipment: McIntosh intergraded MA6900, SVS SB-1000.

McIntosh stuff is always a plus.

But indeed, for a sub to work best a dedicated sub out port on the amp is better. That gives control over the cut-off point and eventual extra settings on the sub.

With speaker wire attached the whole frequency spectrum of the sub is used. And while this can be practical when you have those type of miniature satellite speakers (which are mostly treble) you are going to have a lot of frequencies overlap with your main speakers.

The ideal setup (for when an amp has a sub out) is..
-check what the bass extension frequency of your main speakers are in the manual
- dial the cut of point to that freq on the sub
-put your sub in "a quarter past.." in volume (according to sub guides)

And you are ready to go.

Speaker wire can be ok for films if doubling frequencies is not a problem, for music it is not that ideal.

If you dont want an amp with sub out, there might also be devices that can to in between the sub and the amp and deal with that but from what ive seen they are not that ideal.

 

[mcsweej]

Thank you, I'll give it a try!

 

[AJM1981]

Thank you, I'll give it a try!

Cool.

Keeping speaker wire and keeping the frequency overlap might also not be a huge problem by the way. No, It does not meet 'audiophile standards' , but having a good pair of mains and a good sub, it gives this atmosphere of a smokey club or, when you play a film, the average cinema.