Adding a P38

SteveR750

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Toying with the idea of adding a P38, but am hugely sceptical of bi-amping - every time I have demoed it (all of a couple of times) I noticed no difference, well, nothing more than faffing about with cables etc. I'm intrigued, but then *only* because Cno suggested it worked very well (compared to what though?) and you know how financially dangerous his advice is.

Worth going to the trouble / petrol expense of a demo? I'd probably be more interested in opinions of bi-amping sceptics than comitted disciples since I am far from cnvinced from what I have heard thus far.
 

FennerMachine

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£20.00 of fuel and a couple of hours of driving/testing to potentially save over £1000.00

If it does the job, great, problem solved, £1000.00 lighter.

If not, at least you have ruled out one of many options to fix your problem and the £1000.00 can go towards a different solution.
 

SteveR750

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nads said:
It depends on your speakers and if they will benefit from it.

ProAc D18 per sig, and don't know, not tried it with them

FennerMachine said:
£20.00 of fuel and a couple of hours of driving/testing to potentially save over £1000.00

If it does the job, great, problem solved, £1000.00 lighter.

If not, at least you have ruled out one of many options to fix your problem and the £1000.00 can go towards a different solution.

Not sure how that works?

But I don't have a *problem*, I was just thinking about improvements. I'm waiting for Cno to tell me to get a Linn DS.....
 

FennerMachine

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Reading that back it does look odd what I wrote. I tried to keep the post brief and obviously didn't make sense!

I meant as in wasting £1000.00. If it doesn't make a difference during a demo don't spend the money, you save £1000.00
 

6th.replicant

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Bi-amp'ed A38/P38 worked for me - more depth/imaging/separation and punch, but still refined. To date, my most tangible upgrade.

And I'm always a sceptic, 'til I've heard it for myself.

A38 + P38 is well worth a home demo, IMHO, especially with a pair of D18s... :)

EDIT: you could order online, get the P38 delivered, and if it doesn't hit the spot, then return/claim refund in accordance with distance-selling regs... :shifty:
 

SteveR750

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6th.replicant said:
Bi-amp'ed A38/P38 worked for me - more depth/imaging/separation and punch, but still refined. To date, my most tangible upgrade.

And I'm always a sceptic, 'til I've heard it for myself.

A38 + P38 is well worth a home demo, IMHO, especially with a pair of D18s... :)

EDIT: you could order online, get the P38 delivered, and if it doesn't hit the spot, then return/claim refund in accordance with distance-selling regs... :shifty:

I could, but that's not how I do things.

Now what I need is a retailer / manufacturer who can post me a demo (I'll willingly give my CC details beforehand) model for a 14 day home trial. P&P at my cost (but a hungry seller might absorb this if you buy). I don't mind paying for a demo, just not in someone elses sparsely furnished idea of a lounge.

Back to what is ethically possible, do you want to lend me yours Mr 6th?
 

Crocodile

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Arcam power amps are always in demand so if you have the cash to spare, buying used to demo at home at your leisure is an option. Trial it as long as you like & then decide if it's worth what you paid or resell it. Hopefully you could use one of the free classifieds to resell (if necessary) avoid losing Ebay/Paypal fees.
 
A

Anonymous

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If you are going to the trouble of demoing an extra amp in bi-amp config, you could try demoing three different configurations which all potentially provide an "upgrade" path:

- additional identical amp in bi-amp config

- not sure if your current amp does it, but try a similarly priced amp - actually a pair - in bridged mode. I listened to a pair of bridged amps once and they sounded horrid. Ruled that option out for me.

- Then listen to a more powerful amp at twice the price. This is the route I ended up going down.

The above should give you a good idea of the configuration that sounds best to you given an doubling in price - biamp, 2 amps bridged or a single amp that's twice the price and more powerful.
 

Womaz

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SteveR750 said:
Toying with the idea of adding a P38, but am hugely sceptical of bi-amping - every time I have demoed it (all of a couple of times) I noticed no difference, well, nothing more than faffing about with cables etc. I'm intrigued, but then *only* because Cno suggested it worked very well (compared to what though?) and you know how financially dangerous his advice is.

Worth going to the trouble / petrol expense of a demo? I'd probably be more interested in opinions of bi-amping sceptics than comitted disciples since I am far from cnvinced from what I have heard thus far.

I added a P85 a few months ago after a recommendation on here. I got it second hand so was very good value.

It made a big difference to the sound.....the seperation of the music especially. It was an excellent purchase in my opinion.
 

visionary

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thread title confused me no end :)

images
 

CnoEvil

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I can feel my ears burning (from inside the junk box!). :shifty:

You have an interesting conundrum, as to where to turn for the best....Whether the money is best spent going down the Arcam route, depends on how much you like the "Arcam Sound" compared to say MF, Sugden or Electrocompaniet.

A far more difficult question to answer (at least for me), is whether a good source (Sneaky), in your case, would be money better spent than the P38. :?

There seems to be good evidence that the P38 will have a worthwhile, beneficial effect on your D18s (I agree with Mr. R's assessment).....so you should try and borrow one, provided you are sure you want to stick with the A38.

If I had the same dilemma it would be a much easier decision, as I don't like the Dacmagic.
 

SteveR750

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CnoEvil said:
I can feel my ears burning (from inside the junk box!). :shifty: You have an interesting conundrum, as to where to turn for the best....Whether the money is best spent going down the Arcam route, depends on how much you like the "Arcam Sound" compared to say MF, Sugden or Electrocompaniet. A far more difficult question to answer (at least for me), is whether a good source (Sneaky), in your case, would be money better spent than the P38. :? There seems to be good evidence that the P38 will have a worthwhile, beneficial effect on your D18s (I agree with Mr. R's assessment).....so you should try and borrow one, provided you are sure you want to stick with the A38. If I had the same dilemma it would be a much easier decision, as I don't like the Dacmagic.

Which would be?

I've decided I am not going to try bi-amping unless a bargain appeared on the bay.

My M2 is attracting as much interest on ebay as an MP at a rave, so am going to unbox it and try it out again. If I can live with it in the new house, then I may be forced to get rid of the A38 which might be easier to sell in these cash strapped days. If I do this, then perhaps I can tame the aggressive top end with a change to the DAC.....
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
CnoEvil said:
If I had the same dilemma it would be a much easier decision, as I don't like the Dacmagic.

Which would be?

I've decided I am not going to try bi-amping unless a bargain appeared on the bay.

My M2 is attracting as much interest on ebay as an MP at a rave, so am going to unbox it and try it out again. If I can live with it in the new house, then I may be forced to get rid of the A38 which might be easier to sell in these cash strapped days. If I do this, then perhaps I can tame the aggressive top end with a change to the DAC.....

My decision, if I owned an A38, would have been to buy a DS first (bet that came as a surprise!)......which sounds great with Arcam.

I don't think you can make the right decision on amplification until you get the source sorted out.....and then your M2 may well give you the sound you're searching for .

If I was buying an amp for the D18s at half sensible money, it would be a Sugden or a Pathos.
 

SteveR750

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CnoEvil said:
SteveR750 said:
CnoEvil said:
If I had the same dilemma it would be a much easier decision, as I don't like the Dacmagic.

Which would be?

I've decided I am not going to try bi-amping unless a bargain appeared on the bay.

My M2 is attracting as much interest on ebay as an MP at a rave, so am going to unbox it and try it out again. If I can live with it in the new house, then I may be forced to get rid of the A38 which might be easier to sell in these cash strapped days. If I do this, then perhaps I can tame the aggressive top end with a change to the DAC.....

My decision, if I owned an A38, would have been to buy a DS first (bet that came as a surprise!)......which sounds great with Arcam.

I don't think you can make the right decision on amplification until you get the source sorted out.....and then your M2 may well give you the sound you're searching for .

If I was buying an amp for the D18s at half sensible money, it would be a Sugden or a Pathos.

A decently powered Sugden isn't in my category of sensible money, and I listen too loud for anything less than 60Wpc, in fact I think the M2 was running out of steam at times, noweher near clipping, but just starting to strain a little hence the shoutiness perhaps.

Do you think a Sneaky is that much better than a well sorted PC+DAC? MC17 is pretty good, it's noticeably better than itunes or WMP etc.

Bear in mind my system has *only* cost £2100 excluding the PC, but I bought that to be a computer first. I doubt I could buy the same standard using a more conventional full system approach, plus I'm not really interested in upgrading/spending more than this performance level.
 

CnoEvil

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Helmut80 said:
are you not a fan of the MF- Proac marriage Cno? I've heard D18s on the end of an M6i and thought it was great.

Yes.....I think the AMS35i + Proac would sound incredible, but I prefer the sound of Sugden and Pathos over the M series.

What I recommend for other people, would not necessarily be my own first choice; I try to match brands that I consider musical, to their taste.

In Steve's case, the M6i could well give a happy medium between the Roksan and the Arcam.....but the Masterclass would still be my top choice, if the funds could be scraped together.
 

6th.replicant

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SteveR750 said:
6th.replicant said:
Bi-amp'ed A38/P38 worked for me - more depth/imaging/separation and punch, but still refined. To date, my most tangible upgrade.

And I'm always a sceptic, 'til I've heard it for myself.

A38 + P38 is well worth a home demo, IMHO, especially with a pair of D18s... :)

EDIT: you could order online, get the P38 delivered, and if it doesn't hit the spot, then return/claim refund in accordance with distance-selling regs... :shifty:

I could, but that's not how I do things.

Now what I need is a retailer / manufacturer who can post me a demo (I'll willingly give my CC details beforehand) model for a 14 day home trial. P&P at my cost (but a hungry seller might absorb this if you buy). I don't mind paying for a demo, just not in someone elses sparsely furnished idea of a lounge.

Back to what is ethically possible, do you want to lend me yours Mr 6th?

I'd love to, but there's a reason for my post's use of past-tense...
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
A decently powered Sugden isn't in my category of sensible money, and I listen too loud for anything less than 60Wpc, in fact I think the M2 was running out of steam at times, noweher near clipping, but just starting to strain a little hence the shoutiness perhaps.

Do you think a Sneaky is that much better than a well sorted PC+DAC? MC17 is pretty good, it's noticeably better than itunes or WMP etc.

Bear in mind my system has *only* cost £2100 excluding the PC, but I bought that to be a computer first. I doubt I could buy the same standard using a more conventional full system approach, plus I'm not really interested in upgrading/spending more than this performance level.

Re the cheaper Sugden, it was only in response to what I might do.....I'd rather have an A21/Classic 1 at that sort of money, but that's me.

IMO The Sneaky is substantially better than the Dacs below it (this is a view that is often challenged, but often by people who haven't heard it), but to be fair, I haven't heard the new Audiolab Dac, which one of my dealers is raving about....I usually find Audiolab too clinical for my taste.

I keep banging on about the Linn because I think it's a bargain for how it sounds, but it doesn't mean that you wouldn't prefer Dacs from Arcam, MF, Rega or Audioab.....you need to demo some different alternatives and see what effect it has.
 

SteveR750

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Oh boy! I have swapped the A38 for the M2 and oh man, I love it again. The top end aggression is there, but it's sooo much more tuneful and full of impact. The top end is alos more detailed, it's just a more forward presentation, but the fundamentals of rhythm and pace are better. The bottome end though is where it wins, it's so much tighter and easier to follwo the notes, and has better slam and depth. So, on balance I think I prefer the basis of the M2, i need to fix the top end which is probably as Cno says source driven.

I don't have the cash right now for a sneaky, though will keep my eyes on the bay for a used / ex em one as ever.

So the fog is clearing slightly, and know where to go next.
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
Oh boy! I have swapped the A38 for the M2 and oh man, I love it again. The top end aggression is there, but it's sooo much more tuneful and full of impact. The top end is alos more detailed, it's just a more forward presentation, but the fundamentals of rhythm and pace are better. The bottome end though is where it wins, it's so much tighter and easier to follwo the notes, and has better slam and depth. So, on balance I think I prefer the basis of the M2, i need to fix the top end which is probably as Cno says source driven.

I don't have the cash right now for a sneaky, though will keep my eyes on the bay for a used / ex em one as ever.

So the fog is clearing slightly, and know where to go next.

This is the cheapest new price:
http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3935-linn-sneaky-ds-networked-media-player.aspx?gclid=CLL915HRyq4CFQ1lfAodVivh_w

or even better:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINN-MAJIK-DS-/220965618464?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item337293c320#ht_500wt_1282 >)
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
SteveR750 said:
Oh boy! I have swapped the A38 for the M2 and oh man, I love it again. The top end aggression is there, but it's sooo much more tuneful and full of impact. The top end is alos more detailed, it's just a more forward presentation, but the fundamentals of rhythm and pace are better. The bottome end though is where it wins, it's so much tighter and easier to follwo the notes, and has better slam and depth. So, on balance I think I prefer the basis of the M2, i need to fix the top end which is probably as Cno says source driven.

I don't have the cash right now for a sneaky, though will keep my eyes on the bay for a used / ex em one as ever.

So the fog is clearing slightly, and know where to go next.

This is the cheapest new price: http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3935-linn-sneaky-ds-networked-media-player.aspx?gclid=CLL915HRyq4CFQ1lfAodVivh_w

Stop stoppit!!

I found that already, none on ebay tho.

What about the "terribloe software / control" issues? Are they fixed in later updates. I read a 2008 review and it got slated for that.

I lke the look of the majik, but it's a long way to Hull. That will keep the price donw though!
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
Stop stoppit!!

I found that already, none on ebay tho.

What about the "terribloe software / control" issues? Are they fixed in later updates. I read a 2008 review and it got slated for that.

I lke the look of the majik, but it's a long way to Hull. That will keep the price donw though!

There has been constant improvement to the point where it isn't an issue.

The Majik is a good step up from the Sneaky, so if the price doesn't go up too much, there will be little better for around that money.....IMO you would be amazed at the difference it would make (but I'm biassed). Just make sure it has the Dynamik power supply, if interested.

I think I better shut up now! :shifty:
 

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