Adding a power amplifier

wilro15

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I have a NAD C390DD which has a stereo RCA pre-out connection on the back. This would allow me to add a power amplifier.

My PMC FB1i's can be bi-amped, so I am toying with the idea of adding a power amp. I guess I would use the C390DD to drive the woofer input and another power amp for the tweeter input.

My question is, do I have to match the power rating of the power amp to that of the NAD? In other words do they both have to be 150 watts? If the power amp does not have the same power output as the NAD then won't that unbalance the levels between the tweeter and woofer in the PMCs?
 

spiny norman

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wilro15 said:
My question is, do I have to match the power rating of the power amp to that of the NAD? In other words do they both have to be 150 watts? If the power amp does not have the same power output as the NAD then won't that unbalance the levels between the tweeter and woofer in the PMCs?

Provided you stick within the NAD family, the power amp should be gain-matched to the C390DD, so there'll be no problem.

The power figure isn't the vital one here, but the amount of gain: in simple terms, that's the factor by which the power amps (ie the one inside the integrated amp and the separate power amp) multiply the level of incoming signal.

Most brands gain-match their integrated amps and power amps (at least those within the same family or range) for just this reason.
 

matt49

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I have no experience of your amp, but on paper it looks easily powerful enough to drive the PMCs, even though PMCs can present a fairly tough load. (I have a pair of their younger siblings, the GB1is.) So I wonder whether there's much to be gained.

Having said that, if it's an itch you need to scratch, why not borrow an amp from a friendly dealer and give it a whirl? The view seems to be that the more powerful amp should drive the bass. What power amp are you thinking of trying?
 

Gazzip

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Spiny Norman,

So what happened on 22 Feb 1966?

All I can find of any note for that date was the launching of the first 2-dog crew in to space by the Soviets. They were called Veterok and Ugolek in case you were interested.
 

wilro15

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I liked the idea of something vintage. I saw a 2nd hand Technics with VU meters on eBay. I guess due to gain matching this is a no go.

Also I want to 'dirty' the sound a bit. I like the NAD but it is a little too clean sometimes.
 

DocG

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Why not try a tube buffer between the Node and the NAD, if you want to add some pleasant distortion? You'll be doing an extra D to A to D too, of course...
 

TrevC

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Biamping in this way is pretty pointless because the total amount of power available will only be equal to that available from the lower powered amplifier on its own and there's no guarantee of a level match even if they are the same make. In short, don't bother.
 

wilro15

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DocG said:
Why not try a tube buffer between the Node and the NAD, if you want to add some pleasant distortion? You'll be doing an extra D to A to D too, of course...

Do you know of any good examples?
 

wilro15

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TrevC said:
Biamping in this way is pretty pointless because the total amount of power available will only be equal to that available from the lower powered amplifier on its own and there's no guarantee of a level match even if they are the same make. In short, don't bother.

Ok understood. I suspected this may be the case.
 

abacus

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While you won’t get a massive improvement in sound (You need proper active speakers for that) there will certainly be a nominal improvement.

Gain matching is the most important, and staying with the same make is usually fine as they are usually gain matched so that they can be used with all their equipment.

Tweeters have considerably reduced power handling compared to bass units, so always use the more powerful amp for the bass. (So long as it is gain matched a lower powered amp for the Tweeter is fine)

Hope this helps

Bill
 

wilro15

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Perhaps I use the NAD as a pre and DAC and get a more analogue sounding amp. Or maybe not bother at all.

The NAD isn't bad, but its not perfect either. Can't seem to find something I am completely happy with.
 

luckylion100

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So what's the point of power amplifers, if any, other than to get the gullible to dig deeper into their pockets? This is a genuine question from a mere novice.

When I added my power amp, it definitely refined the sound to my liking, tightened the bass a little. I remember at the time describing the out of the box sound of the K2 as being a little like a warm wet flannel was placed on top of it making the sound way too warm. The power amp definitely changed the nature of the sound, now the balance to my untrained ears is just right.

TrevC said:
Biamping in this way is pretty pointless because the total amount of power available will only be equal to that available from the lower powered amplifier on its own and there's no guarantee of a level match even if they are the same make. In short, don't bother.
 

strms

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I've recently (last week) dabled with bi amping with two Linn amps, gain matched. IMO there are a number of benefits that I have found such as tighter base, wider soundstage and an all together more coherent overall SQ. Maybe not for everyone but for the price of two secondhand power amps from ebay it's doing it for me.
 

CnoEvil

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luckylion100 said:
So what's the point of power amplifers, if any, other than to get the gullible to dig deeper into their pockets? This is a genuine question from a mere novice.

When I added my power amp, it definitely refined the sound to my liking, tightened the bass a little. I remember at the time describing the out of the box sound of the K2 as being a little like a warm wet flannel was placed on top of it making the sound way too warm. The power amp definitely changed the nature of the sound, now the balance to my untrained ears is just right.

TrevC said:
Biamping in this way is pretty pointless because the total amount of power available will only be equal to that available from the lower powered amplifier on its own and there's no guarantee of a level match even if they are the same make. In short, don't bother.

IMO. Bi-amping can make a difference, but you must be careful not to spend more on two amps, than getting one, that sounds better than both.
 

luckylion100

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Up to a couple of weeks ago I was considering selling the intergrated and power combination and swapping to an Abrahamsen V20 UP. Obviously this would have involved buying without actually hearing it but based on the excellent reviews on here I thought it may be worth a punt. Damn retailers that suddenly lower the prices of certain amps rendering the 2nd hand versions of said amps to be worth peanuts!
 

CnoEvil

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luckylion100 said:
Up to a couple of weeks ago I was considering selling the intergrated and power combination and swapping to an Abrahamsen V20 UP. Obviously this would have involved buying without actually hearing it but based on the excellent reviews on here I thought it may be worth a punt. Damn retailers that suddenly lower the prices of certain amps rendering the 2nd hand versions of said amps to be worth peanuts!

There is a good chance the Abrahamsen would sound better. *diablo*
 

luckylion100

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that will probably need scratching sooner rather than later.

The thing is I want to reinvest in a new quailty vinyl source, having traded my Nottingham Analogue in to part fund the purchase of the PMC's. It's never ending, the urge to upgrade... and this place with endless suggestions doesn't help! ;-)
 

luckylion100

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i didn't know about the lack of phono stage on the Abrahamsen... Eventually though an external quality phono stage would have been on my shopping list as well. As for DAC for the moment the Pioneer N50 serves well enough in that department. Still really tempted though. The comments from IQ Speakers about the poor packaging and lack of UK distributor would cause slight concern though... if it can go t*ts up. it generally will for me! ;-)
 

luckylion100

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coming up I was keeping my eyes peeled for any impossible to refuse deals that may be available. As you're also a vinyl fan I shall indeed keep you informed of any new arrivals be they vinyl or amp related.

And as for the PMCs, I bet those FB1i's are damn good, I had the GB1's previously.
 

DocG

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wilro15 said:
DocG said:
Why not try a tube buffer between the Node and the NAD, if you want to add some pleasant distortion? You'll be doing an extra D to A to D too, of course...

Do you know of any good examples?

I only heard the one built into a Peachtree amp, which IMO was a nice feature (especially since it can be turned on/off at the switch of a button). As for sepatate boxes, Musical Fidelity's X10 got a good press. Decware have tube buffers too, but I'm not sure they're sold in the UK.

If it's something you want to look further into, maybe start a new thread on the subject...
 

SteveR750

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I have thought about adding a K2 power amp to my system when I owned it a few years ago, and didn't hear any real benefit; so personally I don't think biamping brings anything in terms of value. Bridging your power amp (into a "monobloc") and adding another is another thing of course.
 
I'm just answering the original question, the integrated should do the pre amp work+tweeters, the power amp deals with the low and mids. I myself have just changed from a integrated /biamped setup and moved to a nxt level up single amp, Arcam a85 /p85 to Naim xs, well it's different but I think I've lost a wee touch in the low end, but apart from that the xs is digging out detail that the arcams just can't match, oh and it totally fills the room, it just seems so more powerful than the arcams combined heft, and it's only meant to be 60 watts. So adding a power amp to your nad will give you a bit more control and balance to the overall sound, but it ain't going to change in a big way. You might be slightly dissatisfied with the result, I'd save the cash and go for a single box on the next rung of the Hi-fi ladder
 

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