Active ATC speakers - Opinions please

[MUSICRAFT]

nolitan:

the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.

How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.

Hi nolitan

I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.

If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

MUSICRAFT:nolitan:

the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.

How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.

Hi nolitan

I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.

If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick Thanks for the inputs. The SCM50s are on the shortlist as per se.

I will have to listen to the 19s before i plunge into the active 50s.

when using the 50s with pre-amp, does the balance interconnect have to be off really good quality.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

nolitan:MUSICRAFT:nolitan:

the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.

How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.

Hi nolitan

I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.

If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick Thanks for the inputs. The SCM50s are on the shortlist as per se.

I will have to listen to the 19s before i plunge into the active 50s.

when using the 50s with pre-amp, does the balance interconnect have to be off really good quality.

Hi nolitan

Thanks for your post.

No, the balanced cables do not really have to be top notch. For example i often use standard XLR's from RS Components to connect ATC/Chord Electronics pre amps to active ATC speakers and Chord Electronics power amps.

If you really need a more specialist cable than i would not go any further than Van Den Hul's the Integration Hybrid (which is been my favourite interconnect cable for nearly ten years).

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

dim_span:have a close look at the AVI 9.1 active speakers.... a lot cheaper and although I have not heard them, I have read many good reviews from owners ....

Sorry dim_span, but as good as the AVI's might be, the ATC actives aren't only in another league, they're in another world compared to the AVI's.

I don't deny that, but as mentioned, the OP asked for recommendations for active speakers, and clearly stated that he did not wish to spend a lot of money ....

he never stated his budget, but £1100 is a lot cheaper than the ATC setup ... obviously, if one were to spend that sort of money, it would be wise to audition before comitting ....

 

[Anonymous]

Does retail price always indicate the quality of the sound?

I read elsewhere that Ashley James says the ADM9 speakers to be much better than the ATC 100.

They do sell direct, which might explain the value for money.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

dim_span:have a close look at the AVI 9.1 active speakers.... a lot cheaper and although I have not heard them, I have read many good reviews from owners ....

Sorry dim_span, but as good as the AVI's might be, the ATC actives aren't only in another league, they're in another world compared to the AVI's.

Hi, Frank. Have you got a link to this comparison review?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Taylor74:I read elsewhere that Ashley James says the ADM9 speakers to be much better than the ATC 100.

What would you expect him to say?

 

[Anonymous]

I wasn't sure, Andrew. I did Google the company before deciding to buy the Neutrons and read that Ashley sold ATC and AVI together, but the webpage was quite dated.

Is a comparison available in your magazine? I will be moving the Neutrons to another room when the extension is built and need something else for the lounge - probably larger. However I want built-in amplifiers to save shelf space.

 

[Andrew Everard]

The gentleman in question used to be with ATC, but now runs AVI.

And no, we haven't done the comparison: we've tested the previous model of AVI actives, the ADM9, and the review is here, but AVI chooses not to supply its ADM9.1s to magazines for review.

 

[Frank Harvey]

dim_span:I don't deny that, but as mentioned, the OP asked for recommendations for active speakers, and clearly stated that he did not wish to spend a lot of money ....

he never stated his budget, but £1100 is a lot cheaper than the ATC setup ... obviously, if one were to spend that sort of money, it would be wise to audition before comitting ....

It was the OP that asked about SCM20's and SCM50's......

 

[Frank Harvey]

Taylor74: Does retail price always indicate the quality of the sound?

Not always, but it's a fair judge.

I read elsewhere that Ashley James says the ADM9 speakers to be much better than the ATC 100.

Sorry, there was no smiley rolling around on the floor wetting itself.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Taylor74:Hi, Frank. Have you got a link to this comparison review?

It's David

As far as I know, there's never been a comparison in the hi-fi press - you don't generally see Supertests between £1k speakers and £10k speakers. I'd love to be able to produce a link for you, as it would be an interesting read.....

 

[Anonymous]

MUSICRAFT:nolitan:

the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.

How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.

Hi nolitan

I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.

If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick,

Do you know how the 50's would sound if one was positioned right in a corner, and the other against a wall? I know they're ported, so positioning is a bit more important...... I could always get the house extended by a few foot

I'm sure the she'd love that!!

I think the active 20's would be perfect, because of my room and space constraints, but would I miss the mid driver??

Rick, would you be able to offer a comparison of the active 20's and 50's?

 

[chebby]

The owner of AVI has publicly stated that the midrange on his ADM9.1 active speakers is one million times better than the midrange from ATC SCM speakers.

Quote from the owner of AVI (from 19th December 2009)....

"As someone who's very familiar with the ATC sound, I'd say that the mid
range on the ADMs is a million times better. One of our customers, an
ex BBC sound man used to use SCM100ASLs for all his work and a pair of
NuNeutrons when he wanted accurate mid range or stereo information
because it wasn't on the ATCs."

I will not provide the link because of WHF house rules but the website is very closely associated with AVI and it's owner and was a direct quote.

Putting aside the - obviously - partisan bias of AVI for their own product for one moment, the owner has worked for ATC, so should be familiar enough with all aspects of their sound to comment with some authority.

The 'million' could be (probably was) playful hyperbole, but there is no doubt in the quote (using the example of the ex-BBC sound man) that some people clearly feel the AVI speakers have far better midrange than ATC even including models up to the level of SCM100ASL's!

We also have the non-biased opinions of good WHF forum members who have - in one or two cases at least - sold some extremely expensive gear and replaced with ADM9.1s.

Dave, have you done a direct ATC/AVI comparison?

I would not ask normally, but Andrew did note that Dim-Span had given advice based on not having made such a comparison himself. I therefore assume you have.

 

[MattSPL]

dazzler9000:MUSICRAFT:nolitan:

the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.

How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.

Hi nolitan

I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.

If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick,

Do you know how the 50's would sound if one was positioned right in a corner, and the other against a wall? I know they're ported, so positioning is a bit more important...... I could always get the house extended by a few foot

I'm sure the she'd love that!!

I think the active 20's would be perfect, because of my room and space constraints, but would I miss the mid driver??

Rick, would you be able to offer a comparison of the active 20's and 50's?

The 20's contain the 6inch SL driver like the 19's do. Although they are only a 2 way design, they have a 75mm mid driver fused into the middle of the bass driver creating a mid/bass. So even though they aren't a 3 way and aren't going to provide all the sonics of a 3 way, they do give a very good performance better than most 2 ways and in my experience, better than B&W Nautilus 803's which are a 3 way design.

 

[Frank Harvey]

chebby: Putting aside the - obviously - partisan bias of AVI for their own product for one moment, the owner has worked for ATC, so should be familiar enough with all aspects of their sound to comment with some authority.

Well he must be right then.......

It does worry me sometimes when people who are non the wiser (not specifically you Chebby) will end up believing people outright just because they have been associated with a product/company. In the same vein, that gives me license to comment on the way Sevenoaks and Superfi do business. I could now say anything I liked about those companies and people would believe it to be truth. How do we know that the split from ATC was amicable?

Dave, have you done a direct ATC/AVI comparison?

I would not ask normally, but Andrew did note that Dim-Span had given advice based on not having made such a comparison himself. I therefore assume you have.

No, I haven't Chebby, but 20 years in this trade you sort of get to know what is possible at a price point, whether it's a direct selling company or not. Other forums have pushed direct selling companies with their forums with wild claims, and it seems they're not all they're cracked up to be. I've had many conversations as to the merits of said products on these forums, and it's been argued against me that I'd not heard them. After recent comments, it looks like I was right all along......

Even if these little standmounts have the best midrange at the £1k price point, there will be models around at £2k that will outperform them. And then there's £10k active ATC's......

I'm sure if they're that good, AVI will put them forward for a supertest with the WHF team. I'll put myself forward for a blind test for this. Then again, I already know the answer, so no need.

 

[Anonymous]

Even if these little standmounts have the best midrange at the £1k price point, there will be models around at £2k that will outperform them. And then there's £10k active ATC's......

Frank,

What does the extra money buy at each price points? Is it better materials, or something else?

Also, if a speaker is sold through a shop would it compare to a speaker that is half the price but sold direct?

On a sale of a £10k pair of speakers, for example, you must earn yourself about £5k?

 

[Frank Harvey]

It's David

What we make from it will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer - usually the better stuff has less margin.

What does the extra money buy at each price points? Is it better materials, or something else?

R&D, build quality, driver quality, crossover quality, all of which will apply to the speakers and the amplification.

Also, if a speaker is sold through a shop would it compare to a speaker that is half the price but sold direct?

I can't give you concrete evidence, but from what I have gathered from direct sellers, and what they have sold their products for on auction sites, they make the same sort of margin other manufacturers/retailers do - maybe even more because there is no retailer to take his cut. A foreign speaker manufacturer has a dirtibutor over here, and the prices are the same as when they were selling direct - that tells me the manufacturer was making both manufacturer and retailer profit margins....

 

[Anonymous]

The 20's contain the 6inch SL driver like the 19's do. Although they
are only a 2 way design, they have a 75mm mid driver fused into the
middle of the bass driver creating a mid/bass. So even though they
aren't a 3 way and aren't going to provide all the sonics of a 3 way,
they do give a very good performance better than most 2 ways and in my
experience, better than B&W Nautilus 803's which are a 3 way design.

Quote from mattspl

Yes, I noticed they use that driver arrangement. I guess I'll have to have a listen at some point, but I can't see them sounding as sweet as the 50's 3 way layout.

Matt, have you heard the 20's?

 

[MattSPL]

dazzler9000:

The 20's contain the 6inch SL driver like the 19's do. Although they are only a 2 way design, they have a 75mm mid driver fused into the middle of the bass driver creating a mid/bass. So even though they aren't a 3 way and aren't going to provide all the sonics of a 3 way, they do give a very good performance better than most 2 ways and in my experience, better than B&W Nautilus 803's which are a 3 way design.

Quote from mattspl

Yes, I noticed they use that driver arrangement. I guess I'll have to have a listen at some point, but I can't see them sounding as sweet as the 50's 3 way layout.

Matt, have you heard the 20's?

Ive never heard any other ATC's but heard the Active speakers are serious stuff. Even the passive 40's are supposed to stunning.

Its all down to space and money i suppose. But if the 19's are anything to go by then i guess the larger models will be mind blowing.

My upgrade plan for the distant future is to buy a Wadia cd player and use its volume control direct into the Kav 300i's power amp section, then eventually buy some active ATC's and run the Wadia direct into them.

I can only imagine a Wadia 781i direct into some SCM 150A's or even SCM300A's

 

[Anonymous]

I've been following this thread with interest and amusement!

Currently enjoying my SCM40's I have a mid term plan to look into getting a pair of SCM 50's (for the right price of course). I was rather hoping for more informed discussion but sadly few have heard them for themselves. If you're in the market for £5-10k speakers I think you're probably better served by listening to the counsel of your own ears rather than what some-one says on a forum. Especially when you get recommendations from people who haven't heard them for themselves and don't own/ have experience of equipment in that class - priceless! I'm sure there are retailers on here who could help you with an audition. You could also contact ATC themselves.

The AVI comparison is a red herring. Very good for the money but out of their league against ATC I'm afraid. It's as valid as comparing a Sinclair C5 with a Ferrari F40..

 

[Craig M.]

given that ashley claimed on this very forum that there is no difference between 128 mp3 and cd, i would take anything he says with a full shovelful of salt. if he said it was raining i'd have to look outside, certainly wouldn't take his word for it.

 

[Messiah]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
What does the extra money buy at each price points? Is it better materials, or something else?

R&D, build quality, driver quality, crossover quality, all of which will apply to the speakers and the amplification.

However, that does not mean we are guaranteed better sound quality does it??

And just because some costs 10 times more does not guarantee a much greater product. Just ask Lexicon BD player owners

But lets not turn this into another AVI are the Holy Grail thread.

As far as Active Speakers in general are concerned though I have been impressed with those I have heard and have seen very little if anything negative written about them.

 

[Anonymous]

lots of 'hype' with these AVI's ... not just on this forum, but on several ... can say that one only rarely reads a bad review

I was in touch with Ashley, and he stated that the AVI 9.1's would be better than my current main system, so I will be interested to audition later in the year (when I have funds for a 2nd system which will be purely used to link spotify)

am not comparing them to the ATC as they are in a totally different price range...

I know that Ashley refuses to loan a pair for review, but would be nice if whathifi bought a pair (instead of loaned a pair) , and reviewed them and informed us all of their findings?

 

[Andrew Everard]

As Clare has said before, we have limited funds to buy products for review, and thus prioritise those we in which we think the greater number of readers would be interested.

And in mass-market terms, £1100 active loudspeakers are a very minority interest.