But as I have said before, we did give a five-star review to the ADM9s, so I am really at a loss to understand the company's reluctance to supply a pair of ADM9.1s for review. I gather it's something to do with us not reviewing the original pair solely with Apple computers or something similar, though I have only been told that secondhand.
My personal view is that it seems they would be a very good 'fit' for the Gramophone readers, as well as the WHFSV readership, and I'd very much like to review them, but I'm afraid my product buying budget for Gramo reviews is even smaller than WHFSV. In fact it's non-existent.
My personal view is that it seems they would be a very good 'fit' for the Gramophone readers, as well as the WHFSV readership, and I'd very much like to review them, but I'm afraid my product buying budget for Gramo reviews is even smaller than WHFSV. In fact it's non-existent.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
crimsondonkey: If you're in the market for £5-10k speakers I think you're probably better served by listening to the counsel of your own ears rather than what some-one says on a forum. Especially when you get recommendations from people who haven't heard them for themselves and don't own/ have experience of equipment in that class - priceless!
I've tried to make that point many times , but I don't think people grasp the fact that the majority of people on a forum are only familiar with their own system. If we all made recommendations based on what we've been told, or what we've read on other forums, there'd pretty much be no genuine information of any use.
Anybody spending £10k, £5k, or even £2k on speakers without hearing them or hearing them in comparison to anything else need their head seen to. I've tried to stress this ever since joining forums, but it never seems to sink in.
I've tried to make that point many times , but I don't think people grasp the fact that the majority of people on a forum are only familiar with their own system. If we all made recommendations based on what we've been told, or what we've read on other forums, there'd pretty much be no genuine information of any use.
Anybody spending £10k, £5k, or even £2k on speakers without hearing them or hearing them in comparison to anything else need their head seen to. I've tried to stress this ever since joining forums, but it never seems to sink in.
FrankHarveyHiFi:
crimsondonkey: If you're in the market for £5-10k speakers I think you're probably better served by listening to the counsel of your own ears rather than what some-one says on a forum. Especially when you get recommendations from people who haven't heard them for themselves and don't own/ have experience of equipment in that class - priceless!
I've tried to make that point many times , but I don't think people grasp the fact that the majority of people on a forum are only familiar with their own system. If we all made recommendations based on what we've been told, or what we've read on other forums, there'd pretty much be no genuine information of any use.
Anybody spending £10k, £5k, or even £2k on speakers without hearing them or hearing them in comparison to anything else need their head seen to. I've tried to stress this ever since joining forums, but it never seems to sink in.
very good point ... however, many people who are new to forums have little or no idea as what to buy so they seek advice ... some have fairly large budgets
many on these forums have been reading and posting for a long time and some read several forums and magazines, so they get to read and learn what other people who own the equipment have to say ...
even though we have not heard or own a specific item, we can pass that info to the OP ... and it's up to the OP to research further and audition before buying
crimsondonkey: If you're in the market for £5-10k speakers I think you're probably better served by listening to the counsel of your own ears rather than what some-one says on a forum. Especially when you get recommendations from people who haven't heard them for themselves and don't own/ have experience of equipment in that class - priceless!
I've tried to make that point many times , but I don't think people grasp the fact that the majority of people on a forum are only familiar with their own system. If we all made recommendations based on what we've been told, or what we've read on other forums, there'd pretty much be no genuine information of any use.
Anybody spending £10k, £5k, or even £2k on speakers without hearing them or hearing them in comparison to anything else need their head seen to. I've tried to stress this ever since joining forums, but it never seems to sink in.
very good point ... however, many people who are new to forums have little or no idea as what to buy so they seek advice ... some have fairly large budgets
many on these forums have been reading and posting for a long time and some read several forums and magazines, so they get to read and learn what other people who own the equipment have to say ...
even though we have not heard or own a specific item, we can pass that info to the OP ... and it's up to the OP to research further and audition before buying
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Messiah:However, that does mean we are guaranteed better sound quality does it??
I assume you mean 'doesn't'.
Usually, yes. A speaker's cabinet plays a huge part in how a speaker is going to sound - many manufacturers have used relatively cheap drivers in well made, solid cabinets, and to pretty good effect too. Driver quality is paramount. A driver should have a pure, pistonic movement, any deviation from this will affect it's performance. Crossovers are 'quality killers', very inefficient. It doesn't matter how good your cabinet or speakers are, stick a badly designed or low quality crossover in and you'll get tat out the other end. Also, you can design as much as you like on computer, but it's only when you actually sit down and listen to the finished product that you can really see what appreciate whether everything has worked or not. Some manufacturers use a lot of man hours listening and tweaking their speakers by ear. KEF will build and tweak each one to be within close tolerances of a "Reference" pair of speakers - hence the name Reference.
As with everything, the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and a product that's twice the price isn't necessarily twice as good.
I assume you mean 'doesn't'.
Usually, yes. A speaker's cabinet plays a huge part in how a speaker is going to sound - many manufacturers have used relatively cheap drivers in well made, solid cabinets, and to pretty good effect too. Driver quality is paramount. A driver should have a pure, pistonic movement, any deviation from this will affect it's performance. Crossovers are 'quality killers', very inefficient. It doesn't matter how good your cabinet or speakers are, stick a badly designed or low quality crossover in and you'll get tat out the other end. Also, you can design as much as you like on computer, but it's only when you actually sit down and listen to the finished product that you can really see what appreciate whether everything has worked or not. Some manufacturers use a lot of man hours listening and tweaking their speakers by ear. KEF will build and tweak each one to be within close tolerances of a "Reference" pair of speakers - hence the name Reference.
As with everything, the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and a product that's twice the price isn't necessarily twice as good.
Messiah
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi:Messiah:However, that does mean we are guaranteed better sound quality does it??
I assume you mean 'doesn't'.
Usually, yes.
Ooops, corrected!
Usually - fair enough.
I assume you mean 'doesn't'.
Usually, yes.
Ooops, corrected!
Usually - fair enough.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
dim_span:I know that Ashley refuses to loan a pair for review, but would be nice if whathifi bought a pair (instead of loaned a pair) , and reviewed them and informed us all of their findings?
Why should they?!! It's in the manufacturer's best interests to market the product and get it reviewed. If it' turns out it's a bad review, that's a kick up the rear to make a better product. If it's a good review, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Then again, a few manufacturers know they won't be very well reviewed, so rely on forum "recommendations" by people who've heard very little else.
Why should WHF have to pay for a product in order to review it? If this was the case with all manufacturers, it'd probably end up pushing the price of the mag up, and end up diluting the real pages of interest with more adverts.
Why should they?!! It's in the manufacturer's best interests to market the product and get it reviewed. If it' turns out it's a bad review, that's a kick up the rear to make a better product. If it's a good review, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Then again, a few manufacturers know they won't be very well reviewed, so rely on forum "recommendations" by people who've heard very little else.
Why should WHF have to pay for a product in order to review it? If this was the case with all manufacturers, it'd probably end up pushing the price of the mag up, and end up diluting the real pages of interest with more adverts.
Interesting responses, good post David (or Frank as some would have it )
The AVI debate is a little tiring, if you like them buy them, if you not then don't! In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
With regard to the price vs quality angle, there's a point at which steeply diminishing returns kicks in and you can get only marginal improvements - its never about multiples. Dunno at what £ this happens but I would hazard a guess at about £5k total system price is where it starts and over £15k it really kicks in
The AVI debate is a little tiring, if you like them buy them, if you not then don't! In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
With regard to the price vs quality angle, there's a point at which steeply diminishing returns kicks in and you can get only marginal improvements - its never about multiples. Dunno at what £ this happens but I would hazard a guess at about £5k total system price is where it starts and over £15k it really kicks in
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
crimsondonkey:In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
FrankHarveyHiFi:
crimsondonkey:In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
but Frank .... you have not even heard them yet? ... how can you comment???
just winding you David
crimsondonkey:In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
but Frank .... you have not even heard them yet? ... how can you comment???
just winding you David
Back to the knitting ladies!
Right, anyone actually got a pair of SCM 50's who can comment or even better offer an audition?
Right, anyone actually got a pair of SCM 50's who can comment or even better offer an audition?
chebby
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi:
crimsondonkey:In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
"Sorry" ...is the only response normally accepted by AVI for any 'dissent' *
* Dissent = Any use/manufacture/sale/reviewing/distribution/advertising of 'legacy' hifi equipment (or 'audiophoolery or 'Foo' as it is known) or use of any non-Apple computer without a darned good reason.
crimsondonkey:In a rush of blood to the head, one of Ashley's apprentice sycophants once reckoned that the 9.1's would blow my 'mix & match hotch-potch' system as he put it (see signature) out of the water! What can you say to some-one like that?
I know exactly what I'd say, but it's not printable here.....
"Sorry" ...is the only response normally accepted by AVI for any 'dissent' *
* Dissent = Any use/manufacture/sale/reviewing/distribution/advertising of 'legacy' hifi equipment (or 'audiophoolery or 'Foo' as it is known) or use of any non-Apple computer without a darned good reason.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
dazzler9000:MUSICRAFT:nolitan:
the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.
How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?
Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.
Hi nolitan
I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.
If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick,
Do you know how the 50's would sound if one was positioned right in a corner, and the other against a wall? I know they're ported, so positioning is a bit more important...... I could always get the house extended by a few foot
I'm sure the she'd love that!!
I think the active 20's would be perfect, because of my room and space constraints, but would I miss the mid driver??
Rick, would you be able to offer a comparison of the active 20's and 50's?
Hi dazzler9000
Although the active SCM50's are better than the active SCM20's however in your room the active SCM20's will be the ideal solution. The passive/active SCM50's do need some room to breathe.
As you have asked and (i hope this is within the rules) if you wish to pursue this further than a comparison between the active SCM20 and active SCM50's can be arranged.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
the active 50 SL for example is close to the price of the wilson speakers.
How would one compare the active to the likes of say the Wilson Sophia or the Wilson Watt Puppies ?
Looking forward to hearing opinions on this matter.
Hi nolitan
I have extensively used SCM20, SCM50, SCM100 and SCM150 (all active) over the years with ATC, Chord Electronics, NAD, Bryston, Naim etc. pre amps.
If it is to be kept simple (no power amp/s, speaker cables etc.) than i believe you won't look back with a pair of active SCM50's.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick,
Do you know how the 50's would sound if one was positioned right in a corner, and the other against a wall? I know they're ported, so positioning is a bit more important...... I could always get the house extended by a few foot
I think the active 20's would be perfect, because of my room and space constraints, but would I miss the mid driver??
Rick, would you be able to offer a comparison of the active 20's and 50's?
Hi dazzler9000
Although the active SCM50's are better than the active SCM20's however in your room the active SCM20's will be the ideal solution. The passive/active SCM50's do need some room to breathe.
As you have asked and (i hope this is within the rules) if you wish to pursue this further than a comparison between the active SCM20 and active SCM50's can be arranged.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick, It's good to hear from you again.
Yes that's what I thought. I'll have to get around to arranging a demo.
Would you say the 20's give say 70% of the performance of the 50's, or are they really in another league.
I can't help but think I'd be doing half a job by getting the 20's - Yes I'm nuts.......... As I said I want to get something I'm never going to want to upgrade........
Yes that's what I thought. I'll have to get around to arranging a demo.
Would you say the 20's give say 70% of the performance of the 50's, or are they really in another league.
I can't help but think I'd be doing half a job by getting the 20's - Yes I'm nuts.......... As I said I want to get something I'm never going to want to upgrade........
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
dazzler9000:
Hi Rick, It's good to hear from you again.
Yes that's what I thought. I'll have to get around to arranging a demo.
Would you say the 20's give say 70% of the performance of the 50's, or are they really in another league.
I can't help but think I'd be doing half a job by getting the 20's - Yes I'm nuts.......... As I said I want to get something I'm never going to want to upgrade........
Hi dazzler9000
Yes, i would say that the SCM20's give around two thirds of the performance of the SCM50's.
If you do not wish to upgrade again than i suppose the speaker choice has been made (although in time try and give them some room). The SCM50's.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick, It's good to hear from you again.
Yes that's what I thought. I'll have to get around to arranging a demo.
Would you say the 20's give say 70% of the performance of the 50's, or are they really in another league.
I can't help but think I'd be doing half a job by getting the 20's - Yes I'm nuts.......... As I said I want to get something I'm never going to want to upgrade........
Hi dazzler9000
Yes, i would say that the SCM20's give around two thirds of the performance of the SCM50's.
If you do not wish to upgrade again than i suppose the speaker choice has been made (although in time try and give them some room). The SCM50's.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
about how big of a room do you need for the active 50 ?
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
nolitan:
about how big of a room do you need for the active 50 ?
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
Hi nolitan
If the room is not heavily furnished than you should just get away with the active SCM50's. Although to be on the safe side try them first.
Btw, in the mean time i hope you will enjoy the performance of your new SCM19's.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
about how big of a room do you need for the active 50 ?
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
Hi nolitan
If the room is not heavily furnished than you should just get away with the active SCM50's. Although to be on the safe side try them first.
Btw, in the mean time i hope you will enjoy the performance of your new SCM19's.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT:nolitan:
about how big of a room do you need for the active 50 ?
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
Hi nolitan
If the room is not heavily furnished than you should just get away with the active SCM50's. Although to be on the safe side try them first.
Btw, in the mean time i hope you will enjoy the performance of your new SCM19's.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick, Thanks! In other words, the scm50s doesnt require too big of a room ? My room is well treated. It has carpet and some curtains.
I also have some small wall treatments.
What am afraid is the 50s bass might be too much for my room.
Nonetheless, i'll await my scm19s. They should be here soon.
Noli
about how big of a room do you need for the active 50 ?
my room is approx 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, 9 feet ceiling.
I'm hoping in the future, that the active 50s can be placed about 6 feet away from the rear walls so the imaging and soundstage is quite spaced out from each other.
8 to 9 feet spread would be good for me.
what you think ? (this is still far in the future as I have the 19s coming soon.)
Hi nolitan
If the room is not heavily furnished than you should just get away with the active SCM50's. Although to be on the safe side try them first.
Btw, in the mean time i hope you will enjoy the performance of your new SCM19's.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Rick, Thanks! In other words, the scm50s doesnt require too big of a room ? My room is well treated. It has carpet and some curtains.
I also have some small wall treatments.
What am afraid is the 50s bass might be too much for my room.
Nonetheless, i'll await my scm19s. They should be here soon.
Noli
It's good to read that no-one's problems are the 1st. I have passive ATC SCM20s coupled with AVI power amps. AVI pre-amp, AVI tuner & AVI CD player. I like my system enormously. We also have an old CRT TV, which we have decided to replace (probably with a Panasonic TX-P42GT30 which will be connected to the internet & my workstation). It occured to me that if I had some active speakers (like the active ATC SCM20s) connected to my TV & my workstation, I wouldn't need any of my power amps. pre-amp, tuner or CD player? I could listed to various sources of radio from the TV, the internet or my workstation & I could listen to my CDs from my workstation. At worst, I could connect my laptop to the speakers & play my CDs directly from that? I wouldn't then need a pre-amp, nor DAC. Or is all that just too simplistic? :help:
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