Good question. I can't think of many instances. Certainly with 576i images, drive mode 2 is recommended as it makes images much smoother, which you would expect. Some users have reported that this can introduce a tiny amount of extra noise in the picture but I haven't noticed any from my sofa. The drive modes only affect interlaced signals and I guess Pioneer just want to give people the option of having as little processing done to the image as possible. For example, to purists Drive Mode 1 (50hz displayed at 50hz) could be beneficial for watching film DVDs where you are feeding the tv with a 576i signal through SCART or HDMI, as the film would be displayed at 25fps without any extra processing (apart from the deinterlacing and scaling obviously).
Seakingadvice, PLEASE stop obsessing about specs and go and spend some quality time with the sets.
Never, ever, EVER buy a TV based on its claimed contrast ratio - meaningless marketing nonsense - and 100hz can cause as many problems as it solves. Oh, and isn't really relevant with Blu-ray, for example, where true 24fps support is more key.
Never, ever, EVER buy a TV based on its claimed contrast ratio - meaningless marketing nonsense - and 100hz can cause as many problems as it solves. Oh, and isn't really relevant with Blu-ray, for example, where true 24fps support is more key.
Totally agree Clare. However, one of the big problems with the Pioneer is that the manual is quite poor and doesn't explain a lot of the features. Quite a lot of people have solved a jerky Freeview picture by switching to Drive Mode 2 - something that the manual doesn't really point you towards. Sort it out Pioneer. That's my last word on the subject.
John Duncan
Well-known member
re: 100Hz - anybody here had complaints about the performance of their light bulbs recently (since they flash on and off fifty times a second)?
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Seakingadvice, PLEASE stop obsessing about specs and go and spend some quality time with the sets.
Never, ever, EVER buy a TV based on its claimed contrast ratio - meaningless marketing nonsense - and 100hz can cause as many problems as it solves. Oh, and isn't really relevant with Blu-ray, for example, where true 24fps support is more key.
[/quote]
Thanks Clare.
I'm not obsessing about the specs but I'm trying to understand all the marketing nonsense that I'm being fed. Everytime I walk into a store, the salesperson starts blabbing away about specs which makes it difficult to spend any "quality time" with the sets. :-(
I've more or less decided on a Pioneer and I am eagerly awaiting the reviews from What Hi-Fi on how the new 9G Pioneer sets compare to the old 8G sets. And I'm also curious to see how the new flagship Panasonic models perform versus the 8/9G Pioneer sets. Supertest please!
BTW, I've read all the What Hi-Fi reviews on the current 8G Pioneer sets and I'm curious as to whether you guys think that it is worth paying the premium for the Full HD set over the HD Ready set? Is the picture difference noticable enough to justify the premium?
Seakingadvice, PLEASE stop obsessing about specs and go and spend some quality time with the sets.
Never, ever, EVER buy a TV based on its claimed contrast ratio - meaningless marketing nonsense - and 100hz can cause as many problems as it solves. Oh, and isn't really relevant with Blu-ray, for example, where true 24fps support is more key.
[/quote]
Thanks Clare.
I'm not obsessing about the specs but I'm trying to understand all the marketing nonsense that I'm being fed. Everytime I walk into a store, the salesperson starts blabbing away about specs which makes it difficult to spend any "quality time" with the sets. :-(
I've more or less decided on a Pioneer and I am eagerly awaiting the reviews from What Hi-Fi on how the new 9G Pioneer sets compare to the old 8G sets. And I'm also curious to see how the new flagship Panasonic models perform versus the 8/9G Pioneer sets. Supertest please!
BTW, I've read all the What Hi-Fi reviews on the current 8G Pioneer sets and I'm curious as to whether you guys think that it is worth paying the premium for the Full HD set over the HD Ready set? Is the picture difference noticable enough to justify the premium?
Re the 8G 50in sets - yes, we think the Full HD is worth the premium. That's why we gave it the best buy in our Awards, rather than its HD Ready sibling at that size.
We'll let you know ASAP when the new models are in for test....
We'll let you know ASAP when the new models are in for test....
Seaking, the reason that there are 2 very different figures for native and dynamic is due to most lcd's quoting the dynamic contrast ratio instead of the actual native ratio. This is done to make lcd's apear to be as good with contrast as plasma's.
Some shoppers will buy just on the specs alone, so it helps if the lcd and plasma look similar.
You can take most manufacturer specs with a huge dose of salt. Yes use it as a guide, but the only way to tell if a tv is any good is to view the tv with your own eyes. Forget the marketing hype and let your eye's be the judge.
I remember when I bought my old 32" Pany quintrix crt and the 100hz sets had just come onto the market. Now you would think that 100hz must be better than 50hz as surely bigger numbers = better performance. But viewing both sets with my own eyes it was obvious that the 50hz set was miles better in picture quality than the 100hz. Especially with fast action stuff like football. The 100hz set was blurry and the ball would disapear and suddenly jump ahead. A lot like motion blur on an lcd but far far worse. So I ended up buying the 50hz set as it was the best tv. No matter what the specs suggested.
Some shoppers will buy just on the specs alone, so it helps if the lcd and plasma look similar.
You can take most manufacturer specs with a huge dose of salt. Yes use it as a guide, but the only way to tell if a tv is any good is to view the tv with your own eyes. Forget the marketing hype and let your eye's be the judge.
I remember when I bought my old 32" Pany quintrix crt and the 100hz sets had just come onto the market. Now you would think that 100hz must be better than 50hz as surely bigger numbers = better performance. But viewing both sets with my own eyes it was obvious that the 50hz set was miles better in picture quality than the 100hz. Especially with fast action stuff like football. The 100hz set was blurry and the ball would disapear and suddenly jump ahead. A lot like motion blur on an lcd but far far worse. So I ended up buying the 50hz set as it was the best tv. No matter what the specs suggested.
professorhat
Well-known member
[quote user="seakingadvice"]Everytime I walk into a store, the salesperson starts blabbing away about specs which makes it difficult to spend any "quality time" with the sets[/quote]
Not being funny, but at the end of the day, you're the customer and they're the salesman - you should always be in charge!
Tell them to stop feeding you useless specification figures and let you look at the TVs for yourself. If you ever feel that they're not willing to let you do this, thank them for their time and go somewhere else. I have to say, I truly believe you're better off going to an independent dealer. Phone them up, tell them what you're interested in, book a demo time, then go and have a look. My bet is, the independent dealer won't be blabbing in your ear constantly if he knows you know what you're looking at, he'll just leave you to it, answering your questions when asked - this has certainly been my experience.
The likes of Currys / Comet on the other hand have never really seemed to care what I'm asking for, more just show me their bargain of the week (i.e. probably either their biggest commission or stock they're desperately trying to get rid of). I can't tell you the number of times I've walked out of one their stores shaking my head!
Not being funny, but at the end of the day, you're the customer and they're the salesman - you should always be in charge!
Tell them to stop feeding you useless specification figures and let you look at the TVs for yourself. If you ever feel that they're not willing to let you do this, thank them for their time and go somewhere else. I have to say, I truly believe you're better off going to an independent dealer. Phone them up, tell them what you're interested in, book a demo time, then go and have a look. My bet is, the independent dealer won't be blabbing in your ear constantly if he knows you know what you're looking at, he'll just leave you to it, answering your questions when asked - this has certainly been my experience.
The likes of Currys / Comet on the other hand have never really seemed to care what I'm asking for, more just show me their bargain of the week (i.e. probably either their biggest commission or stock they're desperately trying to get rid of). I can't tell you the number of times I've walked out of one their stores shaking my head!
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Re the 8G 50in sets - yes, we think the Full HD is worth the premium. That's why we gave it the best buy in our Awards, rather than its HD Ready sibling at that size.
We'll let you know ASAP when the new models are in for test....
[/quote]
OK, thanks Clare.
Since the HD Ready Pioneer 428XG was awarded Product of the Year and not the Full HD 50 inch set, is it reasonable for me to conclude that at 42 inches, having Full HD doesn't make any difference? Or was the 42 inch awarded the honour because it is better value for money? (Since I noticed that the Product of the Year winners tend not to be the most expensive in the range?).
Re the 8G 50in sets - yes, we think the Full HD is worth the premium. That's why we gave it the best buy in our Awards, rather than its HD Ready sibling at that size.
We'll let you know ASAP when the new models are in for test....
[/quote]
OK, thanks Clare.
Since the HD Ready Pioneer 428XG was awarded Product of the Year and not the Full HD 50 inch set, is it reasonable for me to conclude that at 42 inches, having Full HD doesn't make any difference? Or was the 42 inch awarded the honour because it is better value for money? (Since I noticed that the Product of the Year winners tend not to be the most expensive in the range?).
Thanks SpiceWeasel. So, native ratio is more meaningful than dynamic or is it the other way around? Yes, agree with you that specs isn't everything and should be taken with a dose of salt but I guess it is very difficult for the average consumer to perform a meaningful comparison in a shop where all the TV settings might not be set up properly. Even if we could adjust the settings, we wouldn't know how to do so for so many different brands/models. That's why we rely on the What Hi-Fi experts and the more savvy forumers here. Interesting observation regarding 50Hz vs. 100Hz. I'll play around with that settings once I get my new TV. Thanks.
[quote user="seakingadvice"]Since the HD Ready Pioneer 428XG was awarded Product of the Year and not the Full HD 50 inch set, is it reasonable for me to conclude that at 42 inches, having Full HD doesn't make any difference? Or was the 42 inch awarded the honour because it is better value for money? (Since I noticed that the Product of the Year winners tend not to be the most expensive in the range?).[/quote]
In the case of that particular Pioneer, the difference between HD Ready and the best-of-the-rest 42in sets wasn't enough for it to be an issue: it was (and in many ways still is) the best 42in TV you can buy. Full stop.
But we realise not everyone can afford the premium sets, which is why we Awarded several budget best buys in the TV Awards line-up, too - something we'll probably do again this year, depending on the mix of models available.
In the case of that particular Pioneer, the difference between HD Ready and the best-of-the-rest 42in sets wasn't enough for it to be an issue: it was (and in many ways still is) the best 42in TV you can buy. Full stop.
But we realise not everyone can afford the premium sets, which is why we Awarded several budget best buys in the TV Awards line-up, too - something we'll probably do again this year, depending on the mix of models available.
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="seakingadvice"]Since the HD Ready Pioneer 428XG was awarded Product of the Year and not the Full HD 50 inch set, is it reasonable for me to conclude that at 42 inches, having Full HD doesn't make any difference? Or was the 42 inch awarded the honour because it is better value for money? (Since I noticed that the Product of the Year winners tend not to be the most expensive in the range?).[/quote]
In the case of that particular Pioneer, the difference between HD Ready and the best-of-the-rest 42in sets wasn't enough for it to be an issue: it was (and in many ways still is) the best 42in TV you can buy. Full stop.
[/quote]
Hi Clare,
I have just read the Supertest in the latest issue of What Hi-Fi. Ignoring price, how would you compare the test winner, the 40 inch Sony W4000 versus the Pioneer 428XG?
If you had to choose between the two, which would it be? Thanks!
[quote user="seakingadvice"]Since the HD Ready Pioneer 428XG was awarded Product of the Year and not the Full HD 50 inch set, is it reasonable for me to conclude that at 42 inches, having Full HD doesn't make any difference? Or was the 42 inch awarded the honour because it is better value for money? (Since I noticed that the Product of the Year winners tend not to be the most expensive in the range?).[/quote]
In the case of that particular Pioneer, the difference between HD Ready and the best-of-the-rest 42in sets wasn't enough for it to be an issue: it was (and in many ways still is) the best 42in TV you can buy. Full stop.
[/quote]
Hi Clare,
I have just read the Supertest in the latest issue of What Hi-Fi. Ignoring price, how would you compare the test winner, the 40 inch Sony W4000 versus the Pioneer 428XG?
If you had to choose between the two, which would it be? Thanks!
I haven't seen them side--by-side, but by the amount of time we've spent over the past year with the Pioneer, i'd say it'd still come out on top. Yes, it'd lose a lot in detail-reproduction to the Full HD Sony, which is exceptional for insight, but the blacks and motion-handling would doubtless win me over.
But it's rather a moot point now, as it's last knockings for the 428XD. It continues to perplex and annoy me that Pioneer isn't doing a G9 version of the 42in plasma.....
Incidentally, as part of our forthcoming Awards judging we will of course test the Sony - and other forthcoming 40in sets - against the best new 42in rivals so if people can fit anywhere between 27-42in sets in their living rooms, they know what the top options are.
But it's rather a moot point now, as it's last knockings for the 428XD. It continues to perplex and annoy me that Pioneer isn't doing a G9 version of the 42in plasma.....
Incidentally, as part of our forthcoming Awards judging we will of course test the Sony - and other forthcoming 40in sets - against the best new 42in rivals so if people can fit anywhere between 27-42in sets in their living rooms, they know what the top options are.
Thanks Clare.
Unfortunately, I cannot wait until the forthcoming Awards as I need to get a new TV by early July at the latest (as I might suffer from withdrawal symptoms if I don't have a TV for a few months). Hence, I'm looking at all the sets that are currently available on the market from now until the end of June.
It sounds like the Pioneer 428XD will still come out on top if it was in the recent Supertest. Good to hear that! I think the only TVs that might be able to beat it might be the new Panasonic plasmas and I'm holding my breath to read the What Hi-Fi reviews on those sets and compare them versus the Pioneer 428XG.
Too bad that the Pioneer 42 inch plasma will now be "replaced" by a 46 inch LCD made by Sharp. :-(
Unfortunately, I cannot wait until the forthcoming Awards as I need to get a new TV by early July at the latest (as I might suffer from withdrawal symptoms if I don't have a TV for a few months).
Hence, I'm looking at all the sets that are currently available on the market from now until the end of June.It sounds like the Pioneer 428XD will still come out on top if it was in the recent Supertest. Good to hear that! I think the only TVs that might be able to beat it might be the new Panasonic plasmas and I'm holding my breath to read the What Hi-Fi reviews on those sets and compare them versus the Pioneer 428XG.
Too bad that the Pioneer 42 inch plasma will now be "replaced" by a 46 inch LCD made by Sharp. :-(
Hi all, I have heard that Pioneer could be introducing a new 44" plasma screen with 1080p. Does anyone know anything about this?
professorhat
Well-known member
Cant wait to see these - I'd originally narrowed my selection down to a 50ish" Panasonic set, the Sony 52" LCD and the LX508. Having seen all three yesterday in shop conditions (not ideal I know), the Pioneer was WAY in front for all the reasons everyone on the forum advised. I'm happily waiting (at this stage) to hear when Pioneer will get their act together and bring the LX509 to Oz - more than likely November I've heard, but looking at the initial reviews, looks worth the wait. Does anyone know if I'm likely to have any compatibility problems - HDMI-wise ie 24fps or CEC, partnering it with the new Panasonic DMR-BW500 blu-ray recording PVR?
I think the official announcement was a 46 inch LCD. The panel will be sourced from Sharp. Definitely no 44 or 43 inch given that neither Sharp nor Panasonic manufacture panels in those sizes. Hopefully when the 10G is launched next year, they will source the 42 inch size from Panasonic and reintroduce the Plasma 42 inch.
[quote user="seakingadvice"]I think the official announcement was a 46 inch LCD. The panel will be sourced from Sharp. Definitely no 44 or 43 inch given that neither Sharp nor Panasonic manufacture panels in those sizes. Hopefully when the 10G is launched next year, they will source the 42 inch size from Panasonic and reintroduce the Plasma 42 inch.[/quote]
Hi,
When will any hybrid 10G Pio/12G Panny 42" set(s) most likely be introduced? Will it defintely be next year or any chance towards the end of this year? If next year, I hope it would be in the first few months!
Bazzy!
Hi,
When will any hybrid 10G Pio/12G Panny 42" set(s) most likely be introduced? Will it defintely be next year or any chance towards the end of this year? If next year, I hope it would be in the first few months!
Bazzy!
Hi Clare!
Thanks for the reply - normally when do Panasonic/others usually introduce new lines during a year? I am thinking that next years sets will hopefully not only massively improve in the PQ department and offer Kuro like quality at a more reasonable price but hope that they will be more integrated with computers, internet, wireless connections etc
Bazzy!
Thanks for the reply - normally when do Panasonic/others usually introduce new lines during a year? I am thinking that next years sets will hopefully not only massively improve in the PQ department and offer Kuro like quality at a more reasonable price but hope that they will be more integrated with computers, internet, wireless connections etc
Bazzy!
This year wasn't a typical one for TVs, as most mainstream manufacturers (i'd count Pioneer as specialist) have rushed ranges out in time for the European Football Championships, which traditionally signal a massive uplift in TV sales.
Generally there now seems to be two main times for releasing new ranges - May/June and September/October, with manufacturers tending to release their entry and mid-range models earliest, followed by higher-end models later in the year.
But, increasingly, with companies like Panasonic, Samsung, LG and Sony having so many models in their ranges, it seems to be an almost year-round release schedule, with maybe a small breather from December-March (bit like Formula 1 racing!)
Generally there now seems to be two main times for releasing new ranges - May/June and September/October, with manufacturers tending to release their entry and mid-range models earliest, followed by higher-end models later in the year.
But, increasingly, with companies like Panasonic, Samsung, LG and Sony having so many models in their ranges, it seems to be an almost year-round release schedule, with maybe a small breather from December-March (bit like Formula 1 racing!)
[quote user="seakingadvice"] How many Hz are the current crop of HD Ready Plasma Pioneers? I was told that they are all 100Hz whereas Panasonic is not? Is this correct?[/quote]All the latest Pannys are 100Hz. Dont know about Pioneer, but it's not an issue. Motion is excellent.
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