1st Hifi Setup - I Need Advice

[wirelesskiwi]

Hi There,

I am going to purchase my first proper HiFi setup in the upcoming months. I have a general idea of what I want and a budget but really need some advice as to whether I am going in the right direction. I will be spending about £1500 all up and will be trying for a amp, tuner, network player, turntable sort of setup. I am probably not leaning towards CD as all my music is ripped from CD to FLAC or ALAC. All sitting around possible B&W 684 s2, 645 s2, Monitor Audio BX2, Q Acoustics 2050i or Q Acoustics 2020i I am not sure yet. But leaning towards the B&W's.

As for the hardward driving these I am a little unsure of what wattage amp would suit each combo or whether I should just go for the biggest power and pre or integrated amp I can afford. The room I have is a decent size for now but I will be shifting countries in the furture so who knows (also will power supplys in different countires matter).

I like Marantz styling and sound but does something like the PM6005 have enough power for floor standers? Yamaha has a new line up out but I have not heard much about them. Cambridge Audio is another I have seen and heard and like but I am really not sure on what to combo with something like the Azur 651A. Audiolab but the 8200P might be out of my price range if I need to flesh out the system with to mony other components. Finally the is Rotel I do like there 12 series and some 15 series components but they do feel like they came out a long time ago.

Is there anything I am missing? Denon, Onkyo?

So there you have it? I really would like some advice. This is probably going to be the only HiFi system I every purchase or at least one that will need to last a long long time until I ever have enought cash to upgrade it somehow. Any and all advice happily recieved.

Thanks,

S

 

[Al ears]

Welcome to the forum.

My advise to you would be go to a decent dealer (or two) and audition as much as you can.

You say you will be moving to different countries but not which. Power supply will, of course, make a big difference to your setup in particular the amplifier, but basically anything that is powered. That is going to leave only the speakers.......

If you are going abroad soon perhaps you should leave it until you get there before you actually purchase a system (less to transport, and quite possibly cheaper).

 

[rainsoothe]

hi

best thing to do is find a good hi-fi dealer and audition stuff you shortlist but also stuff the salesperson suggests and let your ears decide, not reviews.

Regarding the power supply thingie, it depends what country you're moving to: for instance, UK and EU have the same power rating (or whatever it's called - 220 or 230v thingie), it's only the plug that differs. But USA has different (110 i think). Some gear has switches and can accomodate both with a flick of the switch, others just don't, so you'll be needing to sell it if you're going say EU to US. Or maybe some transformer type kind of sollution might work, don't know anything about it.

As for your setup, you really need to consider if you want it all, since a turntable setup is quite costly if you only plan on using it like twice a year and might not be worth it, even though it seems appealing in the beginning. But if you're set on it and think are going to use it, then go for it.

With your budget I would be looking at the following:

1. Naim Unitiqute 2 + Neat Iota/KEF LS50. - this setup has no TT, but you can add it at a later stage. This would be my option numero uno. The Naim is a lovely all-in-one sollution (minus CD player), and has 1 analogue input to which you can add a phono stage and TT later. It has streaming, FM and internet radio, headphone jack, the new version has bluetooth, and is a great amplifier. At a later stage you can also add the Naim NAP 100 power amp if you feel like it needs more juice. Alternatively you could try finding a secondhand or ex-dem unit and use the moneys to get a TT + phono.

2. laptop (or NAS with usb) + Micromega MyDac/Arcam iRdac + Marantz PM5005/PM6005 + Dali Zensor 3/XTZ 93.23 mkII + Rega RP3 (Exact or Ortofon cart) - this setup is based on Marantz sound, which I like a lot, and it has great synergy with Dali speakers. The marantz PM6005 is in theory better then the 5005, but don't know if the extra cost is worth it, since you pay for a DAC that's not really all that good, and it doesn't have USB capability. If you go for streaming directly from NAS, MAKE SURE THE DAC IS COMPATIBLE - aka check with dealer or make sure you can return if it doesn't work!!!

3. laptop (or NAS with usb) + Quad Vena/Micromega MyAmp + Q Acoustics 2050i + Rega RP3 + Graham Slee Communicator (or Gram Amp 2 SE if it fits the budget)/NAD PP3i/Musical Fidelity V90LPS/Rega Fono MM mkII - this setup has 2 amps that have integrated DACs and use a laptop for streaming. Then you can chose any of the phono stages for the TT - but you should audition and match the phono stage with the cartridge you're gonna choose.

To the above, I would add any of these amps and speakers to your shortlist:

Arcam A19, Creek Evolution 50A, XTZ A100 D3, Exposure 2010 s2

B&W 685 s2, B&W 684 s2, Dynaudio DM 2/7, XTZ 93.23 mkII, XTZ 99.26 mkII, Dynaudio Excite X12 and X14

- but whatever you do, try to audition - in your home if possible. Reviews mean nothing but guidelines, your ears are best. And again, I, for one, would go for setup 1 and worry about a turntable later, and get a better streaming section - hence the Naim, which is a class above the others imo.

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Welcome to the forum.

My advise to you would be go to a decent dealer (or two) and audition as much as you can.

You say you will be moving to different countries but not which. Power supply will, of course, make a big difference to your setup in particular the amplifier, but basically anything that is powered. That is going to leave only the speakers.......

If you are going abroad soon perhaps you should leave it until you get there before you actually purchase a system (less to transport, and quite possibly cheaper).

Thanks very much for the reply and good point. I am actually now in Hong Kong and was just wanting to make sure that whatever I purchase will be okay for when I eventually leave here for either the UK or NZ probably. But that could be a while off.

It's quite difficult for showrooms and demo's here. To get a resonable level of expertise and feedback from the hifi distributers here you need to either speak Cantonese or be spending a very very large amount of cash. Both of which are unfortunately outside my grasp at the moment.

I think my main objective is to get the best sound for my buck and hopefully some longevity and flexibility if I can ever upgarde a component.

Thanks,

S

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Wow what a huge amount of options! Thanks so much! As mentioned in my other reply, getting demo's or even some of these brands in Hong Kong can be a bit tricky but I will certainly be having a go.

I have heard good things about the arcam A19 does it have enough power to run floorstanders such as the B&W 684's or the Q Acoustic 2050i's? You make a good point on the turntable. I do love vinyl but doint really own a lot, just love the sound every now and again. So perhaps this is a perhaps not a must. I run a basc Imac with spotify and itunes at the moment so would be using this as a source for the moment.

The Naim setup you have suggested looks interesting and perhaps a network streamer/pre-amp with a power amp and quailty speakers will give me more bang for my buck. I do get a little jittery on networks streamers and the tech can date quite quickly if the landscape shifts (but what tech doesn't)

I will diffenitley look into that and the Kef's which I think I can get a listen to a little easier here in Hong Kong as they seem a little more available. Would they fill a large room?

Anyway thanks again,

S

 

[davedotco]

It has been my experience that percieved value and desirability will vary with with the marketplace. I understand that imported equipment will often have more prestige than locally produced product but you often pay a lot extra for this privelege.

For example, excellent amplifiers such as the Jungson JA88 and JA99, the Dussun V6i can be had for around £5-700, paired with the excellent Aurum Cantus Leisure Model 2 or preferably Model 5 stand mount. Very nice equipment at modest cost, and those are just choices I am familier with personally.

Like this....

and.....

 

[rainsoothe]

Wow what a huge amount of options! Thanks so much! As mentioned in my other reply, getting demo's or even some of these brands in Hong Kong can be a bit tricky but I will certainly be having a go.

I have heard good things about the arcam A19 does it have enough power to run floorstanders such as the B&W 684's or the Q Acoustic 2050i's? You make a good point on the turntable. I do love vinyl but doint really own a lot, just love the sound every now and again. So perhaps this is a perhaps not a must. I run a basc Imac with spotify and itunes at the moment so would be using this as a source for the moment.

The Naim setup you have suggested looks interesting and perhaps a network streamer/pre-amp with a power amp and quailty speakers will give me more bang for my buck. I do get a little jittery on networks streamers and the tech can date quite quickly if the landscape shifts (but what tech doesn't)

I will diffenitley look into that and the Kef's which I think I can get a listen to a little easier here in Hong Kong as they seem a little more available. Would they fill a large room?

Anyway thanks again,

S

well, a couple of points:

1. IMO, the second most important thing (the first being that you need to audition before you buy) is matching components. A speaker needs to be partnered by an amp (and DAC etc) that matches it's characteristics - for example, a very detailed speaker will benefit from a smoother, warmer amp and so forth. If you get two top rated products that are both bright for instance, the result will most likely be a harsh sounding system.

2. The Q Acoustics 2050i are pretty easy to drive, so they're good for any amp. And the Arcam A19 does have enough power for the speakers you mention, although B&W speakers do need a bit more juice to be driven correctly. Also, mind you, the Q acoustics are very different from the B&W - the Q Acoustics are smoother and warmer, while the B&W are sharper. That's why it's very important to match the partnering amp.

3. Don't worry about technological advancement - you will NEVER buy anything if you do. In the digital domain, things are constantly evolving, and if you keep waiting for the next best thing, you will be waiting forever. I used to think like this before I realised that a perfect product will never come out, since they always change, they always improve. Just go for something that fills your needs.

4. I forgot to mention another potentially great combo: laptop (or NAS) + Hegel H80 + Kef R300/Focal Aria 906/XTZ 99.26 mkII/Neat Motive SX2. - the Hegel has an inbuilt DAC, and people rate it very highly especially against Naim products.

5. It's not all about Watts quantity, it's about current. I don't know the technical details that can help me to explain, but 30 naim watts will always sound better then 70 yamaha watts - at least to my ears. The sound will be more stable and have more drive and cohesion.

6. IMPORTANT: TAKE YOUR TIME! I know how the itch when you wanna buy hi-fi feels like. But try to resist the urge and give yourself at least a couple of weeks or even a month before buying anything, and try to audition as much as you can. I cannot stress how important this is. And if it really is that hard for you to find demo rooms, try finding dealrships that give home trial, or internet based companies where you can buy&try their products and if you're not satisfied return them for your money back. In this category, I would defenately look into XTZ A100D3 integrated amp + XTZ 99.26 mkII speakers and matching stands (or the 99.36 mkII floorstanders). It's a sweedish internet based company, they have very few dealers and they're giant killers - imo Arcam A19 and the gang don't hold a candle to this. These guys give like 30 days home trial and you can send everything back for full refund if you don't like it. And for streaming you can just go laptop (or NAS) into one of the DACs i mentioned in my previous post. This option should actually be close to the top of your list - they sound awesome and you have the luxury of testing the kit in your home. Just visit their website and keep in mind that speaker prices are per piece not per pair.

--------------------------------------------------------

also please mention your room size and type of music you like and if you need party level volumes. That should've been the first thing I asked. It will help people suggest stuff closer to your needs.

 

[Aslan]

I find hifi is often cheaper in the U.K. than Hong Kong. If there is a chance that you are going to move to the U.K. I would suggest you wait.

If you haven't already visited the Yau Shing Commercial Centre in Mong Kok, I suggest you pay it a visit. Take the lift up and walk down the building poping into each shop on the way down.

I got a great deal on my hifi on the 13th floor. They gave me a good discount without even having to ask for one.

The KEF shop at Star House in TST sells Arcam and Marantz and might be worth checking out too. They can speak good English in this shop and in my experience give good advice too.

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Hey There,

Thanks very much. Not brands I have heard of but I am certainly open to options as it seems there really is a wide breadth of setups I could got for.

Thanks,

S

 

[Saomai-Peter]

See a lot of online audio advertising dumpling wanted quality should not be bad, last month bought a dumpling sound-system pioneer experience version, burn in a month, the sound quality really good impress,
Good things need to share the hope of sorting machine trouble Shaoyou try it, the price is not expensive less than 10,000, three-piece suit.
Dumpling audio URL www.laihifi.com

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Thanks again!

All advice is greatly recieved. The main things is I am goiing to have to take some time and really get some demo's in! I will have to just cool my jets of wanting to have it all now...lol.

The room size we have at the moment is pretty spacious by Hong Kong standards, probably 700 square foot. But this is an open space with the kitchen, sofa, TV, Desk etc... sort of loft style.

I do like to have a bit of volume to play with when I listen. As I do swing between Hip Hip to Rock, Electronic, Pop and Acoustic. I am a former commercial DJ so my taste is pretty broad.

I am going to do some research on the XTZ's and the Hegal's I am not sure at this stage if I can even get them in HK but will be interested in taking a look. But you are right, demo, demo and then demo some more if I can.

Thanks

S

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Hi There,

Thanks very much for the shop tips. I had not heard of the Yau Shing Commercial Centre as an option for hifi. I have checked out Tom Lee's in TST but the generally only have Yamaha and Marantz. I will definitely be looking through TST some more.

What set up did you end up purchasing and are you happy now that time has passed?

Thanks,

S

 

[rainsoothe]

Thanks again!

All advice is greatly recieved. The main things is I am goiing to have to take some time and really get some demo's in! I will have to just cool my jets of wanting to have it all now...lol.

That's great

The room size we have at the moment is pretty spacious by Hong Kong standards, probably 700 square foot. But this is an open space with the kitchen, sofa, TV, Desk etc... sort of loft style.

I do like to have a bit of volume to play with when I listen. As I do swing between Hip Hip to Rock, Electronic, Pop and Acoustic. I am a former commercial DJ so my taste is pretty broad.

Whoa, that's a pretty big room tbh. It changes things a bit - imo you should get pretty powerful, gutsy amp and big sounding floorstanders. I will suggest some stuff that might be out of your budget, but that's worth looking into - especially if you don't mind going 2nd hand, or waiting a bit till you can budget for it.

1. My prefered option would be laptop (or NAS) + Arcam iRdac + Naim Nait XS2 + Martin Logan Motion 20 (or 40) / Neat Motive SX2 / Focal Aria 926

2. the Hegel H80 option I mentioned earlier. (remember laptop/NAS + speakers)

3. audition the new Arcam CDS27 (streamer + CD player) + Arcam A39 amp + B&W 683 s2 / Martin Logan Motion 20 (or 40)

4. the XTZ A100 D3 option I mentioned earlier (remember laptop/NAS and DAC), and also add Rotel RA 1570, Exposure 3010 s2 and Roksan Kandy K2 amps to the list and get the XTZ 99.36 mkII floorstanders or try with B&W 683 S2 / Martin Logan Motion 20 floorstanders.

goodluck

 

[rainsoothe]

1. My prefered option would be laptop (or NAS) + Arcam iRdac + Naim Nait XS2 + Martin Logan Motion 20 (or 40) / Neat Motive SX2 / Focal Aria 926

oh, and forgot to mention a great alternative to this: laptop + USB to SPDIF converter (like Halide Design Bridge or the cheapest Audiophilleo option - i think the 2, or an even cheaper converter) + used Naim Supernait (the first model, which has an inbuilt DAC) + B&W 683 S2 / Martin Logan Motion 40 (or 20). This would be my first option alternative, and if you manage to audition something close to the original suggestion, this will sound similar but with even bigger cojones.

 

[Aslan]

You aren't going to get much choice at Tom Lee.

The Yau Shing Commercial Centre is worth checking since you have never been there. I bought my Chord Hugo there for a really good price (by HK standards).

Take a look at Naim's website (www.naimaudio.com) and pay a visit to the shops listed for Hong Kong. Most of them are pretty good and the ones in Mong Kok are quite interesting.

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Thanks for all the great advice. It has been greatly appreciated, however there has been one very slight change.

My budget has had to be clipped substantially. Realistically now I have about £850 to £950GBP max to play with. I think my wish for floorstanders is out but I would still very much like some resonable power. Something that could accommadate a phono stage in the future is still an option. But probably an intergrated amp and perhaps a streaming setup with some bookshelfs is now as far as I can get for now.

Really keen to hear some opinions on what you would suggest.

Thanks

 

[wirelesskiwi]

In regards to the last update on the change of budget I have been looking at various setups to try and audition here in Hong Kong.

1. NAD 3020 + Wharfedale Diamond 220 Speakers + MusicHall USB 1 Turntable

2. Marantz PM6005 + Q Acoustics Concept 20 Speakers + MusicHall USB 1 Turntable

I am still really tempted to try and stretch to the B&W 685 S2 but not sure now given the pairings I may need to go for with the lower budget.

Thanks

 

[drummerman]

Dumpling audio URL www.laihifi.com

Dumpling Audio?

Mind you, looking at the team at laihifi I shouldn't joke. Might get kneecapped

regards

 

[gasolin]

Wow what a huge amount of options! Thanks so much! As mentioned in my other reply, getting demo's or even some of these brands in Hong Kong can be a bit tricky but I will certainly be having a go.

I have heard good things about the arcam A19 does it have enough power to run floorstanders such as the B&W 684's or the Q Acoustic 2050i's? You make a good point on the turntable. I do love vinyl but doint really own a lot, just love the sound every now and again. So perhaps this is a perhaps not a must. I run a basc Imac with spotify and itunes at the moment so would be using this as a source for the moment.

The Naim setup you have suggested looks interesting and perhaps a network streamer/pre-amp with a power amp and quailty speakers will give me more bang for my buck. I do get a little jittery on networks streamers and the tech can date quite quickly if the landscape shifts (but what tech doesn't)

I will diffenitley look into that and the Kef's which I think I can get a listen to a little easier here in Hong Kong as they seem a little more available. Would they fill a large room?

Anyway thanks again,

S

well, a couple of points:

1. IMO, the second most important thing (the first being that you need to audition before you buy) is matching components. A speaker needs to be partnered by an amp (and DAC etc) that matches it's characteristics - for example, a very detailed speaker will benefit from a smoother, warmer amp and so forth. If you get two top rated products that are both bright for instance, the result will most likely be a harsh sounding system.

2. The Q Acoustics 2050i are pretty easy to drive, so they're good for any amp. And the Arcam A19 does have enough power for the speakers you mention, although B&W speakers do need a bit more juice to be driven correctly. Also, mind you, the Q acoustics are very different from the B&W - the Q Acoustics are smoother and warmer, while the B&W are sharper. That's why it's very important to match the partnering amp.

3. Don't worry about technological advancement - you will NEVER buy anything if you do. In the digital domain, things are constantly evolving, and if you keep waiting for the next best thing, you will be waiting forever. I used to think like this before I realised that a perfect product will never come out, since they always change, they always improve. Just go for something that fills your needs.

4. I forgot to mention another potentially great combo: laptop (or NAS) + Hegel H80 + Kef R300/Focal Aria 906/XTZ 99.26 mkII/Neat Motive SX2. - the Hegel has an inbuilt DAC, and people rate it very highly especially against Naim products.

5. It's not all about Watts quantity, it's about current. I don't know the technical details that can help me to explain, but 30 naim watts will always sound better then 70 yamaha watts - at least to my ears. The sound will be more stable and have more drive and cohesion.

6. IMPORTANT: TAKE YOUR TIME! I know how the itch when you wanna buy hi-fi feels like. But try to resist the urge and give yourself at least a couple of weeks or even a month before buying anything, and try to audition as much as you can. I cannot stress how important this is. And if it really is that hard for you to find demo rooms, try finding dealrships that give home trial, or internet based companies where you can buy&try their products and if you're not satisfied return them for your money back. In this category, I would defenately look into XTZ A100D3 integrated amp + XTZ 99.26 mkII speakers and matching stands (or the 99.36 mkII floorstanders). It's a sweedish internet based company, they have very few dealers and they're giant killers - imo Arcam A19 and the gang don't hold a candle to this. These guys give like 30 days home trial and you can send everything back for full refund if you don't like it. And for streaming you can just go laptop (or NAS) into one of the DACs i mentioned in my previous post. This option should actually be close to the top of your list - they sound awesome and you have the luxury of testing the kit in your home. Just visit their website and keep in mind that speaker prices are per piece not per pair.

--------------------------------------------------------

also please mention your room size and type of music you like and if you need party level volumes. That should've been the first thing I asked. It will help people suggest stuff closer to your needs.

ATM in denmark Hegel H100 costs the same as the H80 so look for the H100 not a huge differnce i power BUT i have heard the H100 is noticeable better then the H80

 

[gasolin]

In regards to the last update on the change of budget I have been looking at various setups to try and audition here in Hong Kong.

1. NAD 3020 + Wharfedale Diamond 220 Speakers + MusicHall USB 1 Turntable

2. Marantz PM6005 + Q Acoustics Concept 20 Speakers + MusicHall USB 1 Turntable

I am still really tempted to try and stretch to the B&W 685 S2 but not sure now given the pairings I may need to go for with the lower budget.

Thanks

Instead of the Concept 20 you could go for the 2050i the you don't need to buy stand and you get more bass then with the concept 20 also more sensitive speaker 92 vs 88 db (great if you like edm and rock)

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Thanks which do you think would be better to drive the 2050i's the NAD or the Marantz?

 

[davedotco]

Thanks which do you think would be better to drive the 2050i's the NAD or the Marantz?

Normally at this sort of level it makes no real difference to the quality of the setup, amps at this price point have similar sonic capabilities, though they will present the sound slightly differently. Try and hear them side by side and pick the one you prefer, primarily for your own peace of mind.

In this case it is a little different, the Nad is rather different in design to other amplifiers of comparable price and in my view sounds sufficiantly different to require a bit more thought. I actually rather like how it sounds but not everyone agrees, assuming you have the space for the 2050i it should be a good match.

 

[wirelesskiwi]

Thanks very much.

Agree that listening is going to be the acid test. Good to know that it has enough omph to drive the 2050i's. I will just need to see if the budget can stretch to them perhaps.

I am going to have to try and drive a hard bargin with the local hifi dealers.

I don;t thhink I am going to be able to audition them side by side but I should be able to at least hear them in a decent setup to get an idea of the characteristics.

Thanks

 

[Covenanter]

Thanks very much.

Agree that listening is going to be the acid test. Good to know that it has enough omph to drive the 2050i's. I will just need to see if the budget can stretch to them perhaps.

I am going to have to try and drive a hard bargin with the local hifi dealers.

I don;t thhink I am going to be able to audition them side by side but I should be able to at least hear them in a decent setup to get an idea of the characteristics.

Thanks

Make sure that you take your own music to the audition and a wide range of music too. Solo instruments and solo voice are particularly revealing but the kit needs to be able to handle "ensemble" music (orchestra or group) too. Take your time and keep notes. Notes can help you remember from one audition to the other what you heard.

Chris

 

[davedotco]

Thanks very much.

Agree that listening is going to be the acid test. Good to know that it has enough omph to drive the 2050i's. I will just need to see if the budget can stretch to them perhaps.

I am going to have to try and drive a hard bargin with the local hifi dealers.

I don;t thhink I am going to be able to audition them side by side but I should be able to at least hear them in a decent setup to get an idea of the characteristics.

Thanks

Be aware that it is the combination of amplifier and speaker that is important, in this case the 2050is are sensitive and easy to drive, the modestly powered D3020 should drive them with ease. This would not be the case should you use similarly priced B&Ws or Kefs, for example.

As has been explained many times before, the big difference in budget amplifiers is how they behave into complex loads, ie real world loudspeakers, the written specs simply do not tell you this.