£500 mains cables or a psychiatrist , which one should i choose ??

[Anonymous]

maxfilnn it was your doctor who prescribed the anti-depressants. Psychologists usually treat people using talking therapies. If you had a good GP they should of been competent enough to diagnose the problem them self or referred you to a specialist for diagnosis.

If you were so depressed you could no longer function in society, did not see the point in getting out of bed, going to work, washing yourself, eating, etc... Or had attempted suicide, not a cry for help - please stop me, but if not for pure chance you would be dead attempt. Then a stay in hospital and a psychiatrist should have been the order of the day.

professorhat can you get your other half to point me to a study showing psychology talking therapies effectiveness at reducing the effects of dementia or slowing progression of the illness.

In the treatment of major psychosis talking therapies at best can help people cope with their condition when it is not too acute and can improve the patients out look on life. But they are not proven to reduce symptoms or improve recovery times. The same can be said of work therapy, art therapy, music therapy, gardening, etc... You can not usually talk someone out of being clinically depressed or delusional or seeing/hearing hallucinations. It can work temporarily but does not last, I have once seen a psychiatrist talk a highly delusional patient to a state where they voluntarily allowed the psychiatrist to inject them with a anti psychotic, which makes a change from someone having to be forcibly restrained. But you can not talk people better when they are actually ill, the patient spent over a year in hospital receiving drug treatments.

 

[professorhat]

knightout:maxfilnn it was your doctor who prescribed the anti-depressants. Psychologists usually treat people using talking therapies. If you had a good GP they should of been competent enough to diagnose the problem them self or referred you to a specialist for diagnosis.

Again, not necessarily true - a psychologist may well have diagnosed the condition and then referred them clinically for the correct prescription of the appropriate drugs.

knightout:professorhat can you get your other half to point me to a study showing psychology talking therapies effectiveness at reducing the effects of dementia or slowing progression of the illness.

To be honest, if you're not going to provide any evidence on your claims as I asked, I don't see why I should bother my gf with this thread - I'm pretty sure she has better things to do.

I honestly suggest you do a bit more research on psychology yourself as I think you're a little out of date - you seem to think psychosis is the only condition psychiatrists and psychologists treat - things have moved on quite a bit since the 40s...

If you don't want to, fair enough, I'm only trying to help realise you're misinformed as to exactly what it is psychologists (and indeed psychiatrists) actually do.

 

[professorhat]

Although since I'm waiting for something at work to finish and bored, a quick search on Google revealed this.

 

[Anonymous]

knightout:
maxfilnn it was your doctor who prescribed the anti-depressants. Psychologists usually treat people using talking therapies. If you had a good GP they should of been competent enough to diagnose the problem them self or referred you to a specialist for diagnosis.

If you were so depressed you could no longer function in society, did not see the point in getting out of bed, going to work, washing yourself, eating, etc... Or had attempted suicide, not a cry for help - please stop me, but if not for pure chance you would be dead attempt. Then a stay in hospital and a psychiatrist should have been the order of the day.

professorhat can you get your other half to point me to a study showing psychology talking therapies effectiveness at reducing the effects of dementia or slowing progression of the illness.

In the treatment of major psychosis talking therapies at best can help people cope with their condition when it is not too acute and can improve the patients out look on life. But they are not proven to reduce symptoms or improve recovery times. The same can be said of work therapy, art therapy, music therapy, gardening, etc... You can not usually talk someone out of being clinically depressed or delusional or seeing/hearing hallucinations. It can work temporarily but does not last, I have once seen a psychiatrist talk a highly delusional patient to a state where they voluntarily allowed the psychiatrist to inject them with a anti psychotic, which makes a change from someone having to be forcibly restrained. But you can not talk people better when they are actually ill, the patient spent over a year in hospital receiving drug treatments.

knightout , i went to a psychologist because i thought it would be better than a doctor , as you pointed out earlier , people are often given medication by doctors for mild depression , and i was reluctant to go down that road , i first spoke to my mam , and we agreed a psychologist was a good starting point , after a few sessions with the (lets call her P for short) P , i understood the relationship between sunlight and serotonin , and lack of serotonin and depression , once i thought my mild depression was treatable , and understood that it was a form of depression that many people suffer from , i felt much better about it ..

it was knowing what caused my D , and understanding it that made the difference , the P was very helpful here , my doctor would probably just have told me i was depressed , and gave me medication , but i may not have knew what the depression was about , in this case the P was definately merited...

ps , the depression was mild , just the blues really , and only from october to march , i still worked , went out , done everything i always done , but under a cloud ...

 

[Anonymous]

professorhat:

I honestly suggest you do a bit more research on psychology yourself as I think you're a little out of date - you seem to think psychosis is the only condition psychiatrists and psychologists treat - things have moved on quite a bit since the 40s...

If you don't want to, fair enough, I'm only trying to help realise you're misinformed as to exactly what it is psychologists (and indeed psychiatrists) actually do.

Well back in the day Psychology was counseling and psychotherapy

If there is nothing wrong with you, as in you are sane but are unhappy because you are bereaved, shy, etc...
Psychology may help you with counseling giving helpful advice in coping with and maybe overcoming your problems, hopefully in time you will feel better.

If you are actually suffering from a mental illness. If your illness is not in an acute phase then psychology may help you with psychotherapy, by talking to you, the aim being to get you to use your own mental experiences to bring about the desired change. It is not about getting rid of symptoms but about making peace, coming to terms with them. If I offer you a medical treatment that does not cure the illness and does not remove the symptoms is that treatment of value. Well if it makes you happier in yourself to be alive yes. Like I said many patients who receive psychotherapy think it is worthwhile. But psychologists are not medical doctors they do not cure illnesses. I hope it is still the case they can not prescribe drugs, so I assume psychology is still all about talking therapies.

Personally the idea of someone who does not suffer from a major pychosis giving talking therapy to those that do, I view as condescending born out of ignorance. If I was a patient I would not be happy with the idea. As if I had no legs and you with two perfectly good legs are going to try and make me feel less unhappy about it by coming to terms with my condition, makes me feel like chopping your legs off and seeing how well you cope.

So as you can see I view psychology as mostly worthless. The idea the government is planning to reduce drug treatments and increases cognitive behavioral therapy as an alternative, runs shivers through my bones. I watched the house of commons and house of lords debates on the parliament channel and read up on cognitive behavioral therapy, I was not reassured. I think the idea sounds ok for people who are not ill but have difficulty coping with life, who maybe being over prescribed by too busy or uncaring GPs, they may benefit from counseling / therapy. But for people who are actually ill it is a step towards moving them from the care of a psychiatrist in to the care of a psychologist and GP which could be disastrous.

 

[Anonymous]

well im heading to tesco for one of their hdmi cables , i hope they sell them here in ireland , full review to follow

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

And back to mind games. Knight out -your first comments were a broadsweeping statement on the ineffectiveness of psychologists over psychiatrists.Now you have narrowed it down to extreme psychotic disorders/dementia being untreatable by psychology.Seems like you are moving the goalposts to suit your game.The prof ,in my opinion,is making very valid points and you are narrowing your criteria down to make that broadsweeping statement fit.By the way, ECT is only now a last resort(and even then not proven ) if all else fails. The one thing I would offer about psychologists is they have not climbed and parked themselves in the Ivory Tower like a lot of GP's and psychiatrists.

Now then I feel a disorder coming on- Leeches tonight I think ( a new sauce from Knorr.)

 

[PJPro]

Well, after reading through this thread I feel like medication of one sort ot another, if not a shrink, so I'll give the cable a miss.

Before anyone challenges my academic credentials, I'll do the off.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

knightout:professorhat:
I honestly suggest you do a bit more research on psychology yourself as I think you're a little out of date - you seem to think psychosis is the only condition psychiatrists and psychologists treat - things have moved on quite a bit since the 40s...

If you don't want to, fair enough, I'm only trying to help realise you're misinformed as to exactly what it is psychologists (and indeed psychiatrists) actually do.

. It is not about getting rid of symptoms but about making peace, coming to terms with them.

That is a point I almost concur on .

"All those insecurities,that have held me down for so long

I can't say I've found a cure for these,but at least I know them, so they're not so strong"

 

[bob.g]

maxflinn, I'd be rather interested to know who is your 'wooden spoon' supplier ?

 

[Anonymous]

bob.g:maxflinn, I'd be rather interested to know who is your 'wooden spoon' supplier ?ah bob , cable debates , they are great crack , but no harm done eh ?? 166 posts and no naughty stuff , were a good ol bunch on here , im a non believer , what can i say ? are you a believer

 

[robjcooper]

 

[Anonymous]

you want proof , ill give ya proof ....

 

[bob.g]

maxflinn

I'm a (non) believer. My ears and eyes, and heart, tell me what I like.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

robjcooper:

Poor choice since Terry Hall has suffered from mental illness for a long time since then.Or is this deliberate irony.

 

[Anonymous]

Well guys this thread has been amusing, is it fair to say I am the only one posting hear who has a £500 mains cable in the house!

We have all missed a very important point, I could take a £5 per metre cable and fit a furutech carbon fibre IEC connector that costs £185 and one of their rhodium plated mains plugs cost £95, there you have a near £300 mains cable?

To get to £500 we could either use expensive cable and cheap connectors or expensive connectors and slightly better cable, the debate continues?

Its like the early comparisons of does a £200 cd player sound better through £1000 speakers or does a £1000 cd player sound better through £200 speakers!

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:

And back to mind games. Knight out -your first comments were a broadsweeping statement on the ineffectiveness of psychologists over psychiatrists.Now you have narrowed it down to extreme psychotic disorders/dementia being untreatable by psychology.Seems like you are moving the goalposts to suit your game.The prof ,in my opinion,is making very valid points and you are narrowing your criteria down to make that broadsweeping statement fit.By the way, ECT is only now a last resort(and even then not proven ) if all else fails. The one thing I would offer about psychologists is they have not climbed and parked themselves in the Ivory Tower like a lot of GP's and psychiatrists.

Now then I feel a disorder coming on- Leeches tonight I think ( a new sauce from Knorr.)

I have moved the goal posts from in my first post "generally a waste of time" to "mostly worthless" in my last post?

I wrote "ECT has prove therapeutic value and is used as a last ditch treatment when drug therapies have been unsuccessful."

My original statement was
"Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time" " it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems" "psychology has been repeatedly discredited"

Therapeutic benefit is when it cures. Helping some one develop coping strategies or come to terms with their condition is not curative. Counseling is not curative the person is not ill.

As an example of discredited, I remember when psychology believed some major psychosis were caused by repressed memories of childhood abuse and autism in children was caused by uncaring neglectful mothers. Both of which proved to be completely wrong.
My reference to major psychosis was because this is the area I have seen it in. There is little doubt that someone who is suffering from major psychosis is ill. While someone suffering from one of the myriad of behavioral disorders, personality disorders, and conditions, may or may not actually be ill depending on your point of view, usually they appear perfectly sane, at least by comparison.

I wrote in my last post what I believe psychology to be
Counseling this is not a medical treatment it is not treating an illness.the patient is not mentally ill, they are sane.
Psychotherapy for those who suffer from insanity. Were I said the same thing as I did in my original post it has no proven therapeutic benefit, but it makes some patients feel better.

Psychology these days seems to be about helping people to learn how to come to terms with things, and cope with things. Thankfully it no longer seeks to cure major psychosis by bring into the conscious mind non-existent suppressed memories of child abuse, or curing autistic children by taking them away from or educating their supposedly uncaring mothers. Even with the aim of helping people cope and come to terms with things like post traumatic stress and bereavement the presence or absence of counseling does not appear to effect the outcome or speed of recovery, but many people who get counseling feel it helped, and many of those that did not feel they could have benefited from it. So it might make you feel happier and possibly better able to cope with your life than you might otherwise feel.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

mains cables r us:
Well guys this thread has been amusing, is it fair to say I am the only one posting hear who has a £500 mains cable in the house!

We have all missed a very important point, I could take a £5 per metre cable and fit a furutech carbon fibre IEC connector that costs £185 and one of their rhodium plated mains plugs cost £95, there you have a near £300 mains cable?

To get to £500 we could either use expensive cable and cheap connectors or expensive connectors and slightly better cable, the debate continues?

Its like the early comparisons of does a £200 cd player sound better through £1000 speakers or does a £1000 cd player sound better through £200 speakers!

Bu***r the cable debate- you may as well knock on doors promoting mormonism -its the side issues which amuse!

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

knightout:Ravey Gravey Davy:
And back to mind games. Knight out -your first comments were a broadsweeping statement on the ineffectiveness of psychologists over psychiatrists.Now you have narrowed it down to extreme psychotic disorders/dementia being untreatable by psychology.Seems like you are moving the goalposts to suit your game.The prof ,in my opinion,is making very valid points and you are narrowing your criteria down to make that broadsweeping statement fit.By the way, ECT is only now a last resort(and even then not proven ) if all else fails. The one thing I would offer about psychologists is they have not climbed and parked themselves in the Ivory Tower like a lot of GP's and psychiatrists.

Now then I feel a disorder coming on- Leeches tonight I think ( a new sauce from Knorr.)

I have moved the goal posts from in my first post "generally a waste of time" to "mostly worthless" in my last post?

I wrote "ECT has prove therapeutic value and is used as a last ditch treatment when drug therapies have been unsuccessful."

My original statement was
"Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time" " it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems" "psychology has been repeatedly discredited"

Therapeutic benefit is when it cures. Helping some one develop coping strategies or come to terms with their condition is not curative. Counseling is not curative the person is not ill.

As an example of discredited, I remember when psychology believed some major psychosis were caused by repressed memories of childhood abuse and autism in children was caused by uncaring neglectful mothers. Both of which proved to be completely wrong.
My reference to major psychosis was because this is the area I have seen it in. There is little doubt that someone who is suffering from major psychosis is ill. While someone suffering from one of the myriad of behavioral disorders, personality disorders, and conditions, may or may not actually be ill depending on your point of view, usually they appear perfectly sane, at least by comparison.

I wrote in my last post what I believe psychology to be
Counseling this is not a medical treatment it is not treating an illness.the patient is not mentally ill, they are sane.
Psychotherapy for those who suffer from insanity. Were I said the same thing as I did in my original post it has no proven therapeutic benefit, but it makes some patients feel better.

Psychology these days seems to be about helping people to learn how to come to terms with things, and cope with things. Thankfully it no longer seeks to cure major psychosis by bring into the conscious mind non-existent suppressed memories of child abuse, or curing autistic children by taking them away from or educating their supposedly uncaring mothers. Even with the aim of helping people cope and come to terms with things like post traumatic stress and bereavement the presence or absence of counseling does not appear to effect the outcome or speed of recovery, but many people who get counseling feel it helped, and many of those that did not feel they could have benefited from it. So it might make you feel happier and possibly better able to cope with your life than you might otherwise feel.

Reread all tomorrow and come to the same conclusions.If you do, we will agree to disagree. Sweet dreams- ooh now where's my book on Freud.

 

[robjcooper]

RDG,

I'd better not quote any of Stephen Fry's Melchett lines from Blackadder either then......

Baaaaaah

 

[professorhat]

knightout - I can only assume a psychologist has in some way hurt you or a loved one in some bad way (and if that is the case, I'm truly sorry). I assume that as, for some reason, you really don't like them and that's the only reason I can think of.

At any rate, whatever your opinion of what they did in the past or even what they do now, at this present time, psychologists work as valuable assets within the UK health system. GPs refer their patients to them, they treat people and do actually make people's lives better. I also don't understand your definitions of "ill".

knightout:There is little doubt that someone who is suffering from major psychosis is ill. While someone suffering from one of the myriad of behavioral disorders, personality disorders, and conditions, may or may not actually be ill depending on your point of view, usually they appear perfectly sane, at least by comparison ... Counseling this is not a medical treatment it is not treating an illness.the patient is not mentally ill, they are sane.

So it seems, in your mind, whether someone is "ill" or not is based on their sanity? Yet most illnesses leave someone completely sane. Cancer sufferers are generally very sane, but they are still very (very) ill. And it's very much recognised nowadays that just treating the physical aspects of the cancer is only half the battle - at the same time, there is a large emphasis put on dealing with the mental strains of the disease, not only with the sufferer, but their families as well to provide the support they'll need. The "power of the mind" is being seen more and more in the NHS as an important healing factor. It seems to me that you are very much stuck in the past, where conditions such as dyslexia can be put down to nothing more than a child being lazy.

Above all, you seem to want cures, but certainly in my gf's case, there is no medical cure for dementia. However, psychologists make the life of those who are affected by it easier and also prepare the individuals who have been diagnosed early with the disease on what is going to happen (and I mean not only those who have the disease, but their friends and close families also). They don't cure, but the benefit they bring to those affected is massive. I really don't really see how that is different to a medical doctor prescribing drugs to an individual with AIDS - there's no cure but the drugs make things easier. The main aspect I do see a difference in is, okay the drugs help the physical symptoms, but who deals with the person? Their ability to cope with learning that they've just developed a terminal disease? Psychologists do.

If all this is "a waste of time" in your opinion, so be it. Personally, I'm extremely proud of my other half and what she does to help her patients and I for one am very glad there are people like her out there in the NHS doing this work should I ever need it.

 

[Anonymous]

in todays stressful world psychologists do have their place in my opinion , not everyone has friends that they can talk to when they have personal problems , not everyone has the ability to step back , look at their life and decide what they need to change , in order to allow themselves to move forward , to be happy or even just to be more content ..

pychologists can help people to see themselves , their patterns of behaviour and habits , good or bad , to decipher their thoughts and feelings and to help clarify things , sometimes people can go of track in their life , they can lose sight of the place they once aspired to be in , or the person they wanted to be , this can happen for many reasons , have we not all been there to some degree ??

if there were no psychologists , would people dealing with any of modern lifes problems be going to their doctor ?? or a psychiatrist ?? a doctor is not there for dealing with life problems , and nor is a psychiatrist , and it would be arguably a bad idea giving people medication , that sometimes just need some help to focus , to deal with bereavement , to gain confidence , etc ..

if you have good friends that you trust , great , if you dont or you dont want to talk to friends regarding your personal life problems , then a psychologist is who you should talk to , not a doctor , or a shrink ...

 

[Anonymous]

If there were no cables, we'd have silent hifi!

Is this the longest running cable thread without being locked, ever?

 

[Anonymous]

Graham_Thomas:If there were no cables, we'd have silent hifi!

Is this the longest running cable thread without being locked, ever?psychology from above ?? i certainly have no interest preaching in any other cable threads for a while , im wore out

, have we burned ourselves out ??

 

[chebby]

maxflinn:.. have we burned ourselves out ??

I suspect you are just burning-in.