£500 mains cables or a psychiatrist , which one should i choose ??

[paulyboy233]

Here's some psychology for you.

From you're question i deduce that you must be a single guy, as no woman worth her salt would allow you to spend that kind of cash on a mains cable.

Onkyo 875, B&W VM1/AS1, PS3 Slim, Sky HD, B&W DM601.

 

[Anonymous]

True Blue:
"trying to appear more intelligent , as you are endevouring to do , by wording things as you are , and trying to catch me out , is making you look a little silly , i would respectfully suggest ??"

This is the offensive part. More intelligent than what? you? why do you feel the requirement to question my intelligence, trying to catch you out? again no, you asked for a debate I gave my side of the argument backed up with physical laws, and expected you, as an intelligent person to respond in kind.

first you said
Maxflinn, I await your counter arguements to Faradays and Lenz laws, I will be watching New Scientist with baited breath.................
then you said
Please.......you started a debate, on which you changed your main focus mid way through. I have presented my initial assessment and theories to back it up, now I await your educated and informed response..........
then you said
So when the going gets tough and someone actually stands up and starts to defend his beliefs based upon observation and theory (also called science) you resort to childish comedy images.

Its a shame really..........
then
I now bow out due to yet another ignorance of scientific argument / counter with the tendency towards childish humour and teenage wit.....

then i gave my interpretation of the above line of posting , as you trying to draw me into a scientific debate , which i assumed you believed you would be qualified to win , asking me to disprove scientifically , what you cannot prove scientifically , or in laymans terms ?? not being able to explain why something doesnt work , does not prove that it does ..

the childish humour and teenage wit , as you described it , was more of an attempt at levity on my part , which , again i respectfully suggest , most people got , apart from you ??

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Phew- I missed this thread last night- and Max -I have definitive proof that expensive mains cables do make for better audiovisual results.

I missed it because my laptop is broken.The reason it is broken is the mains cable supply into the side.However the internal cable runs to the motherboard .Result =new motherboard = £350 repair. Expensive mains cables do make a difference.QED.

By the way Max, it's a Toshiba so watch out.

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:
Phew- I missed this thread last night- and Max -I have definitive proof that expensive mains cables do make for better audiovisual results.

I missed it because my laptop is broken.The reason it is broken is the mains cable supply into the side.However the internal cable runs to the motherboard .Result =new motherboard = £350 repair. Expensive mains cables do make a difference.QED.

By the way Max, it's a Toshiba so watch out.

thats ok , my uncle lenz said that if it breaks , i can give it to him faraday and he will fi

x it

 

[True Blue]

So you assume because I qouted Physical laws, I was unable personally to prove them scientifically because you cant? That is a rather large and may I add incorrect assumption.

Its not about winning and losing, I was awaiting you educated responses backed up with evidence.

In laymans terms I already gave my basic arguments.

You asked for proof you got it (regarding the hand made HDMI cables) still this is not good enough.

I now bow out, unfortunately as I cannot actually be bothered to participate any further.

 

[idc]

There are various measurements that can be carried out on any cable with regards to resistence, impedence etc. The issue is then to show a correlation between that and sound quality. Then different systems will have different reactions to cables again based on resistence, impedence etc. So how do we measure all of that to everyone's satisfaction? IMO we cannot. Hence these debates, whether tongue in cheek or not will always rumble on.

So long as any cable is made to a decent quality it will work. You can make decent quality cables for very little money. I have pulled a few ThatCables apart and shown them to an engineering friend who was impressed with their build quality. All cables are a combination of mass and hand made. Wire, sheething and connectors are mass made, soldering and crimping of connections is hand made. Some will hand make more of the cable by putting together more of the components or producing limited runs on smaller machines that the big manufacturers.

We do not get enough info on actual cables and their measurements and build to be able to make true comparisons. To do that we need to measure and then pull apart loads of cables. If we did that and found a very cheap and very expensive cable that were exactly the same, that would make for an interesting blind test.

Selling two similar cables one for very little and one for a lot is down to marketing. It is the same with loads of products out there from handbags to cars. Stick a particular badge on something and that alone increases somethings value. Hifi is the same. Not just with cable but with other componenets as well. I have seen pictures of the inside of two amps and they look identical except for a wire here or there, but one sells for twice the other.

So, the best test, well it is to listen and decide yourself.

 

[Anonymous]

True Blue:
So you assume because I qouted Physical laws, I was unable personally to prove them scientifically because you cant? That is a rather large and may I add incorrect assumption.

Its not about winning and losing, I was awaiting you educated responses backed up with evidence.

In laymans terms I already gave my basic arguments.

You asked for proof you got it (regarding the hand made HDMI cables) still this is not good enough.

I now bow out, unfortunately as I cannot actually be bothered to participate any further.

well , i apologise if i upset you by insinuating that you were trying to appear more intelligent ....

this thread will hopefully remain open , so that we can gather more proof , ok , any proof , that expensive cables perform better than cheap cables that conform to the same stringent standards , i hope other people can give their views on this , and share there knowledge ....

i now have to temporarily bow out myself , as i have two german shorthaired pointers that are trying to sever my fingers as i type ..

its been emotional

 

[ESP2009]

Well, for my own part, I vote that we take one £500+ cable, one pyschiatrist, all those who have contributed to this thread (except me), lock them all in a room equipped with concealed CCTVs. The last man standing wins, and if the cable is more useful than the psychiatrist in eliminating those with opposing views, then the winner claims that as a prize (tough if you're a cable non-believer!)

 

[idc]

maxflinn: ......this thread will hopefully remain open , so that we can gather more proof , ok , any proof , that expensive cables perform better than cheap cables that conform to the same stringent standards , i hope other people can give their views on this , and share there knowledge ....

Proof will come by an proper examination of build quality and testing of resistence etc. I suspect that many a cheap cable will rival more expensive ones in that respect. Therefore there is no physical guarantee a more expensive cable will out perform a cheap one.

 

[Anonymous]

From what I saw by scanning the papers, it seems that the expensive mains leads incorporate a zener diode to limit the transmission of voltage spikes.

From wiki:

Zener diodes are widely used as voltage references and as shunt regulators to regulate the voltage across small circuits. When connected in parallel with a variable voltage source so that it is reverse biased, a Zener diode conducts when the voltage reaches the diode's reverse breakdown voltage. From that point on, the relatively low impedance of the diode keeps the voltage across the diode at that value.

Shelling out 500 quid seems a bit excessive when Maplin sell a six-way mains conditioner for 150 quid, a conditioner, incidentally that WHF gave 5 stars and "Best Value Upgrade" Award to in 2008.

 

[Mr Steve]

Buy the cable.

If you are disappointed after, you could always use the cable to apply a bit of electroshock therapy. After that you probably won't care how well the cable works

 

[Anonymous]

If the option is mains cable or psychiatrist. I will opt for mains cable.

If you need a psychiatrist you can get one free on the NHS so why pay. Seeing a psychiatrist can be dangerous to your health, taking psychoactive drugs can make sane people mentally ill and they usually have serious side effects. I would rather suffer from the illness of buying expensive cables than the effects of drugs. But any psychiatrist willing to treat someone on the basis they buy expensive cables, unless this habit has led to them being homeless, stealing, etc... Should be struck off.

Would also like to point out that psychiatry and psychology are different things. Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time. It may make someone feel that they are being listened to and someone cares, but it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems. Psychiatry has displaced psychology in the theories as to the causes of mental health problems and suitable treatments because psychiatry is based on evidence, while psychology has been repeatedly discredited. Given the choice between cables that have not been proven to work over psychology that has not been proven to work, I will pick cables as buying them will likely be less annoying.

I think buying expensive cables is at present a unrecognized and untreatable disorder. A harmless eccentricity of those with too much money like building follies.

 

[Anonymous]

athenry:
maxflinn:shrink or cable ???????????????????????

According to Guze (1992), "Psychiatry, more than any other branch of medicine, forces its practitioners to wrestle with the nature of evidence, the validity of introspection, problems in communication, and other long-standing philosophical issues." Power cabling, on the other hand, more than any other branch of hi-fi, forces its practitioners to wrestle with the nature of evidence, the validity of introspection, problems in communication, and other long-standing philosophical issues. Unfortunately, the undoubted synergy has been much under-researched, particularly in the field of ECT.

That's pretty funny.There is a research grant proposal in there somewhere, though those providing the funding may balk at the cost of the cables.

I personally suggest just giving your psychiatrist a £500 mains cable.

 

[professorhat]

knightout:Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time. It may make someone feel that they are being listened to and someone cares, but it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems.

I'll let my Clinical Psychologist other half know she is wasting her time. Ought to point this out to the NHS as well who employ hundreds of psychologists (including her)...

P.S. - you may want to read this.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

knightout:

Would also like to point out that psychiatry and psychology are different things. Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time. It may make someone feel that they are being listened to and someone cares, but it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems. Psychiatry has displaced psychology in the theories as to the causes of mental health problems and suitable treatments because psychiatry is based on evidence, while psychology has been repeatedly discredited.

So cognitive therapy has no beneficial effect and ECT is based on evidence and has not been discredited at all. Got it.

 

[Pete Shields]

to quote idc's last line

"So, the best test, well it is to listen and decide yourself."

Maybe somebody should just do that then, and then report back in non open university speak.

This thread has been read 2,570 times and posted on 143 times in the last 24 hours. And the word count for each of these posts is well above the usual average.

Have you had fun children?

I haven't.

 

[Anonymous]

i went to a psychologist in 99 , i was feeling a bit depressed , after talking to her for a while , she said she thought i had seasonal affective disorder , or s.a.d . she reccomended antidepressants , seroxat i think , i got them off my doctor , and after a few weeks on them , i felt right as rain ..

i took them every october through to march until 2005 , never felt low (just lifes normal ups and downs).. dont need em since 05 , dont know why ..

i thought that initial few bob was money well spent ...

although i never tried a cable so cant say it wouldnt have worked

 

[Anonymous]

professorhat:

knightout:Psychology used in treating people is generally a waste of time. It may make someone feel that they are being listened to and someone cares, but it has no proven therapeutic benefit or effect on medical outcomes for people will real mental health problems.

I'll let my Clinical Psychologist other half know she is wasting her time. Ought to point this out to the NHS as well who employ hundreds of psychologists (including her)...

P.S. - you may want to read this.

What type of conditions does your other half treat. Psychology is pretty worthless in treating major psychosis, which is why it is generally no longer used to treat such. But what do you know psychology has discover a whole host of behavioral disorders that it can now treat, as they normally cure themselves anyway and psychiatry is unsure they are actual illnesses. It is even making a comeback in treating major psychosis with cognitive behavioral therapy despite the lack of evidence it is anything other than a complementary feel good factor with no effect on the medical outcome or duration of ill health. A psychiatrist who appears to care would be just as effective, but their time and effective medication is expensive.

If I was ill I would want to see a qualified medical doctor like a psychiatrist not someone who thinks they understand how people think like a psychologist. I know psychiatrists who think psychologists are a waste of space. But patients like to feel someone cares and is offering helpful advice and encouragement, good psychologists offer this service, poor ones are viewed as a waste of space by their patients.

 

[Anonymous]

Cognitive therapy has no proven therapeutic benefit to major psychosis. It does not effect medical outcome or duration of illness. But people who receive it say they found it helpful. So it is a feel good treatment. For relatively minor things like anxiety, phobias, etc... that lack effective treatments it may be effective, just like a encouraging and supportive friend, but if these ailments qualify as illnesses is another matter.

ECT has prove therapeutic value and is used as a last ditch treatment when drug therapies have been unsuccessful. The alternative is a much longer stay in hospital, voluntary patients consent, sectioned patients are often unhappy at being given the treatment due to the stigma attached to it by the ignorant.

 

[professorhat]

knightout:What type of conditions does your other half treat.
Mostly dementia in the elderly.

knightout:Psychology is pretty worthless in treating major psychosis, which is why it is generally no longer used to treat such. But what do you know psychology has discover a whole host of behavioral disorders that it can now treat, as they normally cure themselves anyway and psychiatry is unsure they are actual illnesses.

Would love to see some actual evidence for all these things you're stating as fact. Dementia, from my admittedly limited understanding, is not a made up illness just so my other half can have a job. Certainly her patients (and their families) benefit from her treatment.

knightout:If I was ill I would want to see a qualified medical doctor like a psychiatrist not someone who thinks they understand how people think like a psychologist.

Fair enough, but I don't think you actually understand the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist (I also don't you think you'd have a choice if you were using the NHS). Did you actually read the link I posted? My gf studied for over 7 years to get her doctorate in Psychology. That training has enabled her to do a little more than just give "helpful advice and encouragement".

knightout:I know psychiatrists who think psychologists are a waste of space.

I'm sure you do and they probably know some useless psychologists who are a waste of space, just as I know some useless IT professionals who are also a waste of space. What bearing does it have on this?

 

[The_Lhc]

professorhat:I know some useless IT professionals who are also a waste of space.

Did someone call?

 

[SonofSun]

maxflinn:
i went to a psychologist in 99 , i was feeling a bit depressed , after talking to her for a while , she said she thought i had seasonal affective disorder , or s.a.d . she reccomended antidepressants , seroxat i think , i got them off my doctor , and after a few weeks on them , i felt right as rain ..

i took them every october through to march until 2005 , never felt low (just lifes normal ups and downs).. dont need em since 05 , dont know why ..

i thought that initial few bob was money well spent ...

although i never tried a cable so cant say it wouldnt have worked

Looking at you posts, I, think, you, should, lay, off, the commas, a, bit.

 

[professorhat]

the_lhc:
professorhat:I know some useless IT professionals who are also a waste of space.

Did someone call?

Ah now, no need to put yourself down so. Maybe you can talk to my gf - she's great at offering helpful advice and encouragement...

 

[robjcooper]

Personally I can't wait for wireless magnetic resonance power transfer to become the norm then all these 'Groundhog Day' mains cable debates will end......

.....only to be replaced by pointless debates about how the latest Ross Andreas Dual Oxygenated Micro Carbonite DCT Treated Multi-Phase Air conditioner has improved the air supply in the listening room so that the pictures are now 4D and it's all so real that Jimi Hendrix is actually hiding behind the sofa waiting for the Doors to finish !!

If they work for you and you feel the costs are justified, buy them. If you can't see any point in spending money on expensive mains wires, stick with what you've got.....Simples!

Personally I can't wait for wireless magnetic resonance power transfer to become the norm then all these 'Groundhog Day' mains cable debates will end......

.....only to be replaced by pointless debates about how the latest Ross Andreas Dual Oxygenated Micro Carbonite DCT Treated Multi-Phase Air conditioner has improved the air supply in the listening room so that the pictures are now 4D and it's all so real that Jimi Hendrix is actually hiding behind the sofa waiting for the Doors to finish !!

If they work for you and you feel the costs are justified, buy them. If you can't see any point in spending money on expensive mains wires, stick with what you've got.....Simples!

Personally I can't wait for wireless magnetic resonance power transfer to become the norm then all these 'Groundhog Day' mains cable debates will end......

 

[Andrew Everard]

Ah, see what you did there...