your speaker positioning?

Hi, Just wanted to ask everyone about their own speakers, and in particular the positioning they have in respect to where they listen to them?

I've generally thought my speakers were in the optimum position for listening, they are around 3 metres apart, and around 3 metres away from my listening position. i have noticed that when i have moved them slightly further apart, i seem to get a much better separation, and a deeper soundstage. I'm only talking about moving a few inches sideways, but it seems to make a dramatic improvement.

So, basically i wanted to know if everyone feels they have their speakers in the "best" position possible, or whether room size/shape/decor play a part in the decision of where your speakers are? as my own experimentation has led me to believe that speaker positioning is "vital"!
 

matthewpiano

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It certainly is vital.

I'm still experimenting a little with the Dynaudios, but I find that they like more toe-in than I'm used to with other speakers. It really brings the sound together and makes them very cohesive as a pair, to match the total cohesiveness of the drive units.

Otherwise, I've currently got them about 50cm from the rear wall as advised by Dynaudio, and much further than that from the nearest side-walls. They definitely need that space from the rear wall. Get that right and they are really nicely balanced and cover a surprisingly large frequency range convincingly for such a small monitor-sized speaker.
 

cannibal_ox77

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I have between 7'-8' between mine and about 7' from the sofa, and about 20cm from the back wall (bunged) with a slight toe in. Limited by the room, but free of corners at least, but have no real scope for experimenting. What did make a significant difference was removing the spikes from the speakers. No longer does the furniture vibrate at higher volumes. I thought spikes de-coupled the speakers!
 

Vladimir

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I listen in a 6.5 ft triangle (2m x 2m x 2m) and speakers are 1.5 ft away from the walls with toe in slightly off my direct axis. Because the triangle is small and I'm sitting in the middle of the room, I went from floorstanders to mini-monitors.
 

Rethep

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My speakers are 2m apart from each other and 3m from the listening position, slightly toed in. About 0,85m from the backwall. It is a practical positioning because the room is asymmetric. I could still experiment a little though.
 

hifikrazy

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I'm following Jim Smith the author of Get Better Sound's advice that he finds a ratio of 0.83 (distance between speakers compared to distance to listening position) to deliver the best balance. I moved from an equilateral triangle to this ratio and found this to deliver a nice solid image that has good body but still with good space and soundstage.
 
T

the record spot

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Critical and the most cost effective upgrade you'll make. Get the positioning right and you're on a winner. Mine sit about six feet apart, about the same from me and around two and a half feet out in the room. The soundstage is great and throws wide thanks to the Tannoys' driver arrangement.
 

PEAYEL

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I have been moving mine around for years and now except that, when having a listening sesh to a particular album, I will move them and o get the sound that I like. My floors are wooden and I made isolation pads that will also slide easily to go under the spikes. Hence when a mix is too bassy then out from the wall they come or if no real soundstage image is created then I have about a metre to the outside of each speaker that can be used. To be honest, I have been in a relationship with my KEF Q5s for so long, that I know near enough where they will work best. I'm not mad enough, yet, to do this if I'm listening on random/shuffle.

One album that has caught me out though is Elvis Costello and Roots- Wise Up Ghost. Can't make up my mind where the speakers sound best for this bad boy.
 

sheggs

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There are no golden ratios when it comes to monitor positioning, only starting points. You may find this short article useuful however -

So you’ve got your room setup and treated, you’ve spent a ton on gear and a fantastic monitoring chain, but things still don’t sound right. Maybe the stereo image is weird, or the low end is tubby on one side and thin on the other. Is in the monitors? Is it the converters? Is in the way you’ve treated the room?

Often it’s none of those things. One of the most common issues we address in room setup has nothing at all to do with acoustic treatment, but it’s every bit as important. It’s the issue of monitor positioning, and if it’s done wrong the results are obvious and disturbing. Inaccurate positioning can result in all the problems listed above plus quite a few more. This applies to studios, 2-channel rooms and home theaters. Here are some of the most common problems I see:
Speakers too close together[/b]: narrow stereo image. No real sense of where things are panned in the mix. Basically mono except for the most extreme-panned elements.Speakers too far apart[/b]: marked left/right localization (mix elements panned left/right are “stuck” there with no real sense of larger ambience). No real sense of mix depth, and in some cases no sense of a center-image. It extreme cases a sense of “big mono” where all elements of the mix are localized left and right with little or no center image.Speakers too low/too high[/b]: dull, muddy mid-range; source material sounds “shallow”. Speaker-under-a-blanket effect. Sound changes radically with small vertical head movements.Speakers unequal distance from the listener[/b]: marked comb filtering, the effect of which could be an ice-picky mids/highs or dullness in the mids/highs; localization in the left or right speaker[/list]
That’s not a comprehensive list; those are just the most common mistakes, and there are endless combinations of them that compound the issues. It’s very difficult to make any progress in terms of clarity until they’re fixed, so let’s start with a basic listening triangle in your room setup:

The right starting place is always an equilateral triangle, meaning that the speakers will be as far apart from each other as they are from you at the listening position. Usually this distance will start around 4′ or so, and between 5′ and 6′ is very common for studio listening spaces. Most 2-channel listening spaces start around 6′ and can be 12′ or more. Bear in mind that this is only the starting place. Individual preference plays a huge role here. For example, I personally prefer more depth in the center images with a little more emphasis on the hard-panned elements, so I’m a bit closer to my speakers than they are to me (the speakers are 84″ apart and I’m 76″ from them). Other people prefer a more homogenous image, so they position themselves further from the speakers than they are apart.

The other part of the room setup is aiming. How far should we toe the speakers in? Are we aiming for the center of the head or a point slightly behind the head? The answer is, yes. Seriously, it can go either way. This is almost entirely based on preference and the specific acoustic characteristics of the space the speakers are in. The rule of thumb is that the speakers should be toed-in by about 30 degrees. Like all such “rules”, it’s meant to be broken. I’ve seen everything from 30 degrees to zero toe-in work just fine. Experimentation and the specific acoustic characteristics of the space will determine it.

Most importantly, take your time. You’re not going to get it done in a day. It can take weeks of working/listening on the system and the room setup to pinpoint things you’d like to change. If you start with the baseline equilateral triangle though, you have a solid place to work from. Remember to mark the position of the speakers or take pictures so you can re-set as accurately as possible. From there you can make preference-based decisi
 

Tear Drop

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This is an interesting concept - I think part of the idea is to have each speaker pressurise the room equally. I understand it can be a time consuming process, moving the speaker a millimetre or so at a time. When done correctly it supposedly negates the need to room treatments. I am moving house soon and will attempt it then.
 

wilro15

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My main listening position uses the old triangle approach mentioned above. The speakers are about 2m apart from each other and I am about 3.5m away from them both. They are toed in so that they are pointing behind my head; I can just see the inside side of the speakers. They are on solid stands at ear height.

It works for me, I have great imaging and depth. The only problem I have is with bass, but that is the room's fault as the wall behind me is about 6m away! Basically I sit half way along a long room with the speakers at one end.
 
i'd also like to hear comments from people who think they are compromised by room size or shape, and what they have tried to do to improve things.

i'm now running two systems, the one i have in the bedroom is far from ideally positioned, but my g/f loves it. for me, its ok for background music, but thats it.

if i think on, i'll post some pics, to show how things are now set up.
 

sheggs

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wilro15 said:
My main listening position uses the old triangle approach mentioned above. The speakers are about 2m apart from each other and I am about 3.5m away from them both. They are toed in so that they are pointing behind my head; I can just see the inside side of the speakers. They are on solid stands at ear height.

It works for me, I have great imaging and depth. The only problem I have is with bass, but that is the room's fault as the wall behind me is about 6m away! Basically I sit half way along a long room with the speakers at one end.

Do you have any bass trapping. Abosrbers with diffusion in them will be idela in this space if your wall is 6 m behind you :)
 

wilro15

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I don't have any bass trapping unfortunately, have often thought of it but am never sure if it will make a difference. It can be quite pricey for something that may have no effect.
 

sheggs

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Well if you decide to go down that route, many companies will give advice for free and offer money back guarantees. It does work and would make a big difference it is about buying the right treatment, based on the correct advice. Ill placed or wrong products will not work nor will buying one panel and putting it in a large room
 

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