WOW Factor on a budget please

[Craig M.]

you can buy AVI for cheap directly from China from teric.cn:

Really? Got a link?

I also agree that the op won't find a better system than the ADM9's for anywhere near his budget, given the room size I'd probably try to find a 2nd hand matching Avi sub (depending on room layout/seating position/etc.), should be easy to find somewhere to put it in a room that size and is the final bit of icing on the cake - bass down to 30hz. Very clear sound, tons of headroom, excellent imaging, great dynamics.

 

[Electro]

you can buy AVI for cheap directly from China from teric.cn:

Really? Got a link?

I also agree that the op won't find a better system than the ADM9's for anywhere near his budget, given the room size I'd probably try to find a 2nd hand matching Avi sub (depending on room layout/seating position/etc.), should be easy to find somewhere to put it in a room that size and is the final bit of icing on the cake - bass down to 30hz. Very clear sound, tons of headroom, excellent imaging, great dynamics.

I don't know if this is relevant . *smile*

http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?id=8258

 

[Neman]

Really useful advise. Interesting that it's ranged from 40year old vintage to ultra-modern active speakers. Doesn't say much for all the conventional kit inbetween!

 

[relocated]

you can buy AVI for cheap directly from China from teric.cn:

Really? Got a link?

I also agree that the op won't find a better system than the ADM9's for anywhere near his budget, given the room size I'd probably try to find a 2nd hand matching Avi sub (depending on room layout/seating position/etc.), should be easy to find somewhere to put it in a room that size and is the final bit of icing on the cake - bass down to 30hz. Very clear sound, tons of headroom, excellent imaging, great dynamics.

I don't know if this is relevant . *smile*

http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?id=8258

So that's a NO then.

 

[dim_span]

you can buy AVI for cheap directly from China from teric.cn:

Really? Got a link?

I also agree that the op won't find a better system than the ADM9's for anywhere near his budget, given the room size I'd probably try to find a 2nd hand matching Avi sub (depending on room layout/seating position/etc.), should be easy to find somewhere to put it in a room that size and is the final bit of icing on the cake - bass down to 30hz. Very clear sound, tons of headroom, excellent imaging, great dynamics.

I don't know if this is relevant . *smile*

http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?id=8258

So that's a NO then.

I think it's these guys:

https://www.pinterest.com/TericElectronic/teric-electronics-coltd/

 

[relocated]

AVI certainly seem to have caused a stir on the forums. Hadn't considered this option but am now interested in finding out more. With my budget, used AVIs and a phono pre-amp looks a sensible option.

One question nagging me though - if active speakers really are the future, why is the market not now flooded with hifi standard actives?

Because the traditional market has earned a very good living out of passive products for sooooo many years. They are all interdependent and everyone's product can be excused it's inability to deliver because of needing synergy with other products, super cables, room treatments, magic mains leads, if you spend that little bit/lot more money then nirvana will be yours.

It won't. Decent 'actives' are synergy because the amplification is precisely matched to the speaker drive units used in the speaker and the active crossover obliterates the sonic transparency of passive ones. In the case of the AVIs you only need feed it 1s and 0s down an optical cable[perfect 'synergy'again] or if you want to do analogue or digital tweakery then you send that in to the analogue ins.

 

[dim_span]

here's a thread that I found interesting:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/why-avi-speakers-are-intriguing-and-why-i-wont-be-buying-them

snip:

Although I have no doubt that this product sounds great, what it really amounts to is a fancy iPod dock with garishly posh speaker drivers. It's a closed box - you can't upgrade it or even test different parts of it. It's got a lot of black box digital stuff going on inside of it. You are basically buying something that had better be your last purchase, because to make an upgrade, you are starting from scratch.

but saying that, I would still like to hear the AVI for myself

 

[drummerman]

There has been a lot of comments about the power rating of AVI's ADM, including some searching questions from yours truly on the HDD forum a few years back. Nothing clear has ever emerged to my knowledge but you get a relatively beefy amplifier 'on a plate' for each of the speakers, that means a good sized torroid and power capacitance. It all looks rather impressive and neat.

There is also no power sapping passive crossover in the path so these are active watts. The speakers go very loud but you can overdrive them even in a normal sized UK room if you get silly at parties as I was told reliably by the friendly guy who started the AVI website, the same one who brought his ADM's to my house twice and which I visited subsequently to do a comparison between the above and a pair of active Dynaudios.

Its a long time since I listened to them but I remember that they need a subwoofer (which was switched in both at my place and Darren's, the chap in question). Without they sounded to hifi and dare I say ... to clean and antiseptic.

With a subwoofer they sound fantastic and I doubt there are many 'conventional' (passive) systems that equal it (at the price, especially second hand) although a Cambridge Audio 840A and matching 840C cd player did, if I remember correctly, come fairly close both in power and sound with MS and Kef speakers. - You gain functionality but loose the neatness (and looks).

All the above was with the original ADM's. They have since been superseded a couple or three times so will likely have improved. Customer service also seems to be second to none, the company co-owner always being at hand to help.

I am a cyrus user and really like the look and build quality. You could build a system around one of their streamer amps (if it has to be built in), if you find one second hand and add a good standmount, such as Ushers S520 or Monitor Audio RX1 for a more traditional system. You'd still need a phono stage though. Or you could go separates such as an 8vs, DAC and speakers. This will also give you a good headphone amplifier and the possibility of adding a PSX-R at a later stage.

Good luck.

 

[lindsayt]

Stop telling lies / making grossly misleading statements.

ADM 9's do not have 325 watts of amplification. Not continuous into 8 ohm loads with less than 1% THD+N. The amplifier for the mid-bass cone is only about 70 watts when defined in these terms, with the tweeter amplifier having less power than that.

No lies just going off what it says on the AVI website:

"75 WPC for the tweeters and 250 WPC for the bass drivers. System distortion is typically better than 0.002%." Clicky

I haven't taken/seen any measurements so I have no way of verifying this other than taking AVI at their word but I have heard them and can confirm that they do have a massive dynamic range and go really bloody loud! Much louder than you'd expect a 6.5" two-way speaker to be able to go. I'd be in fear of damaging my hearing if I played them at full volume for more than a couple of minutes.

More importantly than that is that they go loud without compressing, distorting or changing their sound in any way. Unlike most hifi they sound the same at high volume as they do at low volume, just louder.

So, why are you repeating the lies / grossly misleading statements from the AVI website?

And how does the dynamic range of the ADM 9's compare to the Yamaha combination that Dim_Span recommended on the first page of this thread? And would you be willing to take a bet on which has the greater dynamic range / goes louder?

 

[lindsayt]

Heck ... I'm confused now ...

so, what are you guys saying ....

AVI (small stand mounts) are much better than Yamaha NS-1000M ? (and that being in a large listening room?)

Yes.

The AVI ADM9 will fill a large room without breaking a sweat. They have massive headroom (325 watts per speaker) and some of the best drivers available at any price and will go very very loud.

If you can stretch your budget to £1500 the brand new DM10 replacement of the old ADM9 version has just come out and should be worth the extra money. If your budget won't stretch that far then there are lots of existing ADM9 owners upgrading to DM10's at the moment so second hand ADM9's are selling cheaper than usual and can be picked up for under £800 (the ADM9 'RS' is the newest version of the old ADM9 and is the one to go for).

And can you please enlighten us as to when you compared a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M's against a pair of ADM 9's in a large room?

If you haven't done so, can you please enlighten us on what basis you made such a clear cut and definitive statement that the ADM 9's are much better than the NS-1000M's?

 

[lindsayt]

OP,

Yet another AVI recommendation here. In your shoes I would pull the extra bit of money together and order the ADM 10s. However the last model 9 [9RS], as has been said, can be picked up for seriously less money than normal.

There is such a gulf between the quality of music reproduction delivered by properly implemented 'actives' over traditional passives and AVI are an exemplar of the art. Sadly some people cannot appreciate the difference, or just will not appreciate it; prefering to live in nostalgia-land [which is fine if that's your bag] and give confusing advice when they do know better.

Have a chat to owners over on the AVI forum, it will be well worth the effort. I look forward to your company there.

Relocated. I challenge you to a bake-off.

Flat, boring, unmusical AVI actives vs dynamic, fun, musical traditional passives.

 

[Vladimir]

Buy Yamaha NS-1000M > Hang a Gibson guitar on the wall > Smoke some Jamaican spirit > Have a threesome > Enjoy life and music.

Buy AVI ADM9 > Have arguments on WHF forums about actives vs passives > Go to bed.

Dunno... Having no crossovers does sound tempting.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Buy Yamaha NS-1000M > Hang a Gibson guitar on the wall > Smoke some Jamaican spirit > Have a threesome > Enjoy life and music.

Buy AVI ADM9 > Have arguments on WHF forums about actives vs passives > Go to bed.

Dunno... Having no crossovers does sound tempting.

*lol* I did actually chuckle at this

 

[Neman]

Ha. Apples and oranges surely. Torn between the two. Reason I've got back into hifi is the new TT reviving my vinyl. Seems right that should be paired with the vintage stuff. But if honest, most listening these days streamed from spot oft via AEX - for which the AVIs sound the ideal match.

Oh to be able to demo them both....

 

[MajorFubar]

here's a thread that I found interesting:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/why-avi-speakers-are-intriguing-and-why-i-wont-be-buying-them

snip:

Although I have no doubt that this product sounds great, what it really amounts to is a fancy iPod dock with garishly posh speaker drivers. It's a closed box - you can't upgrade it or even test different parts of it. It's got a lot of black box digital stuff going on inside of it. You are basically buying something that had better be your last purchase, because to make an upgrade, you are starting from scratch.

but saying that, I would still like to hear the AVI for myself

I remember the thread very well. It was an interesting conclusion, but not a constructive one, and did nothing to dissauade me that active speakers are probably where I'm ultimately headed. He may as well have said that he'd just gone and driven a car that had a chassis, engine, drivetrain, suspension, wheels and tyres that all gelled together in perfect harmony, yet he wouldn't ever buy it because it would leave him nothing to **** about with during wet winter weekends in his cold damp garage covered from head to toe in grease and old sump oil undertaking an ill-fated and ultimately misguided attempt to improve something.

 

[JoelSim]

Try to get some Neat Elite or Kudos Cardea speakers and a decent phono stage. A good DAC won't cost too much either.

 

[drummerman]

here's a thread that I found interesting:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/why-avi-speakers-are-intriguing-and-why-i-wont-be-buying-them

snip:

Although I have no doubt that this product sounds great, what it really amounts to is a fancy iPod dock with garishly posh speaker drivers. It's a closed box - you can't upgrade it or even test different parts of it. It's got a lot of black box digital stuff going on inside of it. You are basically buying something that had better be your last purchase, because to make an upgrade, you are starting from scratch.

but saying that, I would still like to hear the AVI for myself

I remember the thread very well. It was an interesting conclusion, but not a constructive one, and did nothing to dissauade me that active speakers are probably where I'm ultimately headed. He may as well have said that he'd just gone and driven a car that had a chassis, engine, drivetrain, suspension, wheels and tyres that all gelled together in perfect harmony, yet he wouldn't ever buy it because it would leave him nothing to **** about with during wet winter weekends in his cold damp garage covered from head to toe in grease and old sump oil undertaking an ill-fated and ultimately misguided attempt to improve something.

I don't think active speakers are anymore an 'exit' solution than anything else.

They take away the amplifier matching 'issue' but the few I heard weren't perfect either. Not the ADM's, not the Dynaudio's, not the Genelecs and not the Adam's. They all had their own flaws.

I think it would be fair to say though that many converts to active don't return to a conventional system so it can be a sensible path to tread. - Having said that, the cheaper actives I have heard in the pro shop sounded ... well ... cheap and are imho not worth considering unless money is really tight and even then a carefully assembled separates system will probably sound as good or better.

The ADM's are interesting because they look good (as opposed to industrial) and have a great feature set. Still, a subwoofer is mandatory to these ageing ears.

 

[dim_span]

here's a thread that I found interesting:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/why-avi-speakers-are-intriguing-and-why-i-wont-be-buying-them

snip:

Although I have no doubt that this product sounds great, what it really amounts to is a fancy iPod dock with garishly posh speaker drivers. It's a closed box - you can't upgrade it or even test different parts of it. It's got a lot of black box digital stuff going on inside of it. You are basically buying something that had better be your last purchase, because to make an upgrade, you are starting from scratch.

but saying that, I would still like to hear the AVI for myself

I remember the thread very well. It was an interesting conclusion, but not a constructive one, and did nothing to dissauade me that active speakers are probably where I'm ultimately headed. He may as well have said that he'd just gone and driven a car that had a chassis, engine, drivetrain, suspension, wheels and tyres that all gelled together in perfect harmony, yet he wouldn't ever buy it because it would leave him nothing to **** about with during wet winter weekends in his cold damp garage covered from head to toe in grease and old sump oil undertaking an ill-fated and ultimately misguided attempt to improve something.

I suppose fashions/fads come and go .... the AVI reminds me of the past where one would get a music centre .... all built in with a record player, radio and tape deck .... one unit that does it all

when you buy the AVI, you pay a lot of money and receive 2 speakers the size of wharefdale diamonds .... you cannot modify anything .... you cannot change the amp to a tube amp, or change the speakers .... you don't even have tone controls

when you do want to upgrade, you have to sell the whole system....and looking at 2nd hand prices, you loose a fair bit when you sell them on

I think that's what the guy was trying to say .... he never sais the sound quality was bad

 

[CnoEvil]

I suppose fashions/fads come and go .... the AVI reminds me of the past where one would get a music centre .... all built in with a record player, radio and tape deck .... one unit that does it all

I had a Teleton GA-203

 

[MajorFubar]

I don't think active speakers are anymore an 'exit' solution than anything else.

They take away the amplifier matching 'issue' but the few I heard weren't perfect either. Not the ADM's, not the Dynaudio's, not the Genelecs and not the Adam's. They all had their own flaws.

I agree, and of course some actives will sound better than others, but the basic design does emilinate a number of the variables that cloud the issue with passive systems. Back to my analogy of the car modder, what motivates him is the potential to get better performace from the sum of the whole by improving or upgrading specific component parts that he perceives to be bottlenecking something else, such as the suspension or the exhaust. Give him a car where every component is already working to its optimum and he'll hate it because there's nothing to improve until he can afford to improve everything absolutely.

 

[drummerman]

I don't think active speakers are anymore an 'exit' solution than anything else.

They take away the amplifier matching 'issue' but the few I heard weren't perfect either. Not the ADM's, not the Dynaudio's, not the Genelecs and not the Adam's. They all had their own flaws.

I agree, and of course some actives will sound better than others, but the basic design does emilinate a number of the variables that cloud the issue with passive systems. Back to my analogy of the car modder, what motivates him is the potential to get better performace from the sum of the whole by improving or upgrading specific component parts that he perceives to be bottlenecking something else, such as the suspension or the exhaust. Give him a car where every component is already working to its optimum and he'll hate it because there's nothing to improve until he can afford to improve everything absolutely.

Yes. So he probably will buy another new car in three years time because he is bored with his current one ... just as there will be a new and much better (according to the maker) active speaker a year or two down the line.

Go on the HDD forum and see how many upgraded their current models as soon as a new one comes out. That's not to take anything from AVI (or any other manufacturer) but its just the nature of how things progress.

 

[MajorFubar]

Yes. So he probably will buy another new car in three years time because he is bored with his current one ...

Possibly! There's always room for improvement. But the point of my analogy is that many complaints against active speakers revolve around them being a locked-in system with nothing left to tweak or improve singularly, while ignoring the fact that the whole thesis of their design is there's purposefully nothing to tweak singularly that will materially improve their performance (unless you improve everything) because they've already been designed from the start to work optimally. At least that's how I've always interpreted it anyhow.

 

[drummerman]

Yes. So he probably will buy another new car in three years time because he is bored with his current one ...

Possibly! There's always room for improvement. But the point of my analogy is that many complaints against active speakers revolve around them being a locked-in system with nothing left to tweak or improve singularly, while ignoring the fact that the whole thesis of their design is there's purposefully nothing to tweak singularly that will materially improve their performance (unless you improve everything) because they've already been designed from the start to work optimally. At least that's how I've always interpreted it anyhow.

No, some of them sound shixx.

Anyways, back to the OP and his condundrum

 

[MajorFubar]

I suppose fashions/fads come and go .... the AVI reminds me of the past where one would get a music centre .... all built in with a record player, radio and tape deck .... one unit that does it all...when you buy the AVI, you pay a lot of money and receive 2 speakers the size of wharefdale diamonds .... you cannot modify anything .... you cannot change the amp to a tube amp, or change the speakers .... you don't even have tone controls

when you do want to upgrade, you have to sell the whole system....and looking at 2nd hand prices, you loose a fair bit when you sell them on

I think that's what the guy was trying to say .... he never sais the sound quality was bad

I know he wasn't criticising the sound, he was criticising the upgradability, but unlike 1970s music centres which were built around cheaply-made components to appeal to the mass market who bought a HiFi because it had a 'nice tone', active speakers (not just AVIs) are built on an already sound thesis, which if implemented well, has the potential to improve on the performance of passive designs and doesn't need constant tweaks and bodgery to improve it.

 

[steve_1979]