Windows vs Linux

[cheeseboy]

For starters you want to bypass windows sound service - you want to turn it off competely - there are 2 services in windows that disables the sound service

Then try different methods of transmitting audio Kernal Streaming I think is the oldest and actually sounds the best - better than asio and better than wasapi.

If you running out of the motherboard usb - thats another area to look into as its massively limiting the sonic performance.

I can go on all day - making a computer sound good for audio is a project to itself - look at the new Naim flagship streamer - look at the lengths they have gone to make a computer sound good - faraday cages and all sorts going on - thats what it takes.

You can download the free version of Fidelizer which will disable a few things and optimise a few things - give that a try and see what you think?

The paid version is much better than the free but it will give you an idea - they have just released a new verison which is supposed to be epic but I havent tried it yet

sorry ellis, I know you are in to all of this, but this reads like a hobbyist turning things on and off that they have no idea about.

If people are worried about USB that much, switch to firewire - Thats why a lot of studios still use it as it streams the data, not packet based like usb - much better fo synchronisation if that;s something you want to worry about.

All of the things you talk about would be easily proven by running a virtual patch and audiodiffmaker now I come to think about it, that way you could see if it is making a real word difference or not.

 

[cheeseboy]

It wont work in a studio / work environment as you cant use the pc you are listening to - you want everything shut off except the audio - thats what sounds best - clearly thats no good for a work computer - dedicated to audio is the way forward

Sorry ellis, thats just not true. Unless you are saying that all recording studios are not better listening environments than somebodies home hacked up pc?

 

[ellisdj]

Its far from that - there are things I have turned off with trial and error - however 99% of what I use is done by people who know what they are doing, which has been recommended to me by people that actually know really good sound and how to get it from computers.

Look at how popular Innuos have got recently - loads manufacturers use their products at shows - they are doing very similar to what I was recommending years ago and the feedback about their products is pretty unanimous in favour - so you dont have to listen to me - if you dont want to get better sound.

I dont force anyone to do anything but on this topic my advice is worthy of your time to try it

EDIT Cheeseboy your twisting things I say as usual - if the computer is nigh on shut down - so no interface no mouse no keyboard no nothing - what good is that in a work / studio environment - its no good except for playback. For that purpose in a studio like in any situation its ideal but not working on at the same time

 

[ellisdj]

or take my advice

Which nobody should do. EVER!

I shouldnt do but I have taken offence to this - how about money where mouth is I will come to you and listen to yours and then you come to me and listen to mine and decide after, or the other way around - how does that sound?

 

[ellisdj]

Well if you havent tried it in the studios you setup how do they know it wont sound better afterwards? Like anything its only good until you hear better then its not good anymore

 

[cheeseboy]

Its far from that - there are things I have turned off with trial and error - however 99% of what I use is done by people who know what they are doing, which has been recommended to me by people that actually know really good sound and how to get it from computers.

Look at how popular Innuos have got recently - loads manufacturers use their products at shows - they are doing very similar to what I was recommending years ago and the feedback about their products is pretty unanimous in favour - so you dont have to listen to me - if you dont want to get better sound.

I dont force anyone to do anything but on this topic my advice is worthy of your time to try it

it's all anecdotal. I've yet to see any proof. I've read some of the threads by these people who you say know what they are doing, but alas, they don't and again, when asked for some solid proof they fall back on the old people hear a difference so it must be true.

EDIT Cheeseboy your twisting things I say as usual - if the computer is nigh on shut down - so no interface no mouse no keyboard no nothing - what good is that in a work / studio environment - its no good except for playback. For that purpose in a studio like in any situation its ideal but not working on at the same time

not at all. Your assertation is that you have to do a lot to make a pc running windows sound remotely decent and that everything you have done would not work in a studio. I'm disputing that fact and saying that all of the studios I have helped set up and been in that have used windows pc's have never had to any of that, and they've all sounded better (to my ears) than the same stuff played on anybodies home set up, even those that have spent a lot of time messing around with things that don't really matter.

I have no doubt that your system sounds awesome, but that's because you have treat your room properly and use room correction software - those things will make all the difference and that's the kind of things studios look to do - not because you've run a bit of software that turns off processes on a pc.

As i said, there are ways you can prove if what you say is true - thus ruling out any human placebo/bais that you can run if you want to. If you're not willing to do it (and I wouldn;t expect you to) then you simply can't rule them out.

 

[cheeseboy]

on a seperate note ellis - if some of these changes you make are making such a difference to the sound, these should show up in Dirac wouldn;t they? I'd be genuinely interested to know if they do or not, as surely that would be one way to see if there were some of these real world differences.

 

[cheeseboy]

Well if you havent tried it in the studios you setup how do they know it wont sound better afterwards? Like anything its only good until you hear better then its not good anymore

how do you know they haven't? - edit - ignore that, I mis-read the original comment - apologies, but i'm honest, so i'll leave it in.

I have tried turning off unessesary services on a studio setup - heard a difference - blind tested - couldn't tell the difference, like a lot of things.

have you ever tried double blind testing all of the changes you make? (again, I don't expect to you, but if you haven't, how can you rule them out is all i'm saying)

 

[richie60]

I would install Clementine or Audacious as the music players as they allow you to bypass pulseaudio which is what Rythmnbox uses. This will get you a direct link to the hardware output.

Cheers. I'll let my mate know as he'll definitely want to know this. I'm using Roon. Am I correct in thinking that ALSA is Linux equivalent of ASIO?

That is correct.

 

[insider9]

I would install Clementine or Audacious as the music players as they allow you to bypass pulseaudio which is what Rythmnbox uses.  This will get you a direct link to the hardware output.

Cheers. I'll let my mate know as he'll definitely want to know this. I'm using Roon. Am I correct in thinking that ALSA is Linux equivalent of ASIO?

 

That is correct.

Excellent, thanks!

 

[insider9]

You can download the free version of Fidelizer which will disable a few things and optimise a few things - give that a try and see what you think?

The paid version is much better than the free but it will give you an idea - they have just released a new verison which is supposed to be epic but I havent tried it yet 

 

You know what I didn't realise how much crap associated with Windows there was. Considering I'm running plain Ubuntu with not much configured imagine if I could improve on that.

 

[Andrewjvt]

insider has already discovered it does so you can either abandon Windows or take my advice and turn Windows into something that sounds really good.

as stock Windows sounds poor

I'm.using windows 10 on cheap laptop using jriver into dac and have not found this to be the case and I've compared directly to Mac laptop using ssd

 

[insider9]

insider has already discovered it does so you can either abandon Windows or take my advice and turn Windows into something that sounds really good.

as stock Windows sounds poor

I'm.using windows 10 on cheap laptop using jriver into dac and have not found this to be the case and I've compared directly to Mac laptop using ssd

Andrew, if you have a 16GB USB stick you can use it to run Linux from. It'll take you half an hour. And you'll know if it sounds any different.

I too used Windows and with ASIO or WASAPI thought it sounded OK.

 

[Dave_]

You can download the free version of Fidelizer which will disable a few things and optimise a few things - give that a try and see what you think?

The paid version is much better than the free but it will give you an idea - they have just released a new verison which is supposed to be epic but I havent tried it yet

You know what I didn't realise how much crap associated with Windows there was. Considering I'm running plain Ubuntu with not much configured imagine if I could improve on that.

Nothing stopping you running a server/minimal install version, thus removing any superfluous bloat. Will have zero impact on SQ though just like with Windows.

 

[Dave_]

or take my advice

Which nobody should do. EVER!

I shouldnt do but I have taken offence to this - how about money where mouth is I will come to you and listen to yours and then you come to me and listen to mine and decide after, or the other way around - how does that sound?

A) In case you missed it, I have nothing but contempt for you and the BS you perpetuate!

WTF would I spend time in your company, let alone allow you in my house?

B ) The fact you still don't get why that would be utterly pointless/meaningless thing to do just reinforces my opinion

I'd be happy to provide a RasPi Zero to be pitted against your BS tweaked Windows setup for an independent, properly conducted blind/ABX test though if anyone has the experience/fancies the challenge...

 

[Andrewjvt]

insider has already discovered it does so you can either abandon Windows or take my advice and turn Windows into something that sounds really good.

as stock Windows sounds poor

I'm.using windows 10 on cheap laptop using jriver into dac and have not found this to be the case and I've compared directly to Mac laptop using ssd

Andrew, if you have a 16GB USB stick you can use it to run Linux from. It'll take you half an hour. And you'll know if it sounds any different.

I too used Windows and with ASIO or WASAPI thought it sounded OK.

I'm using jriver that automatically optomizes.

Like I said I've compared to Apple Mac with SSD and there was zero difference in sq.

 

[ellisdj]

insider has already discovered it does so you can either abandon Windows or take my advice and turn Windows into something that sounds really good.

as stock Windows sounds poor

I'm.using windows 10 on cheap laptop using jriver into dac and have not found this to be the case and I've compared directly to Mac laptop using ssd

Andrew, if you have a 16GB USB stick you can use it to run Linux from. It'll take you half an hour. And you'll know if it sounds any different.

I too used Windows and with ASIO or WASAPI thought it sounded OK.

I'm using jriver that automatically optomizes.

Like I said I've compared to Apple Mac with SSD and there was zero difference in sq.

I don't own any Apple products I don't know how they work by compare but do know Linux is normally the OS people use for SQ over Windows. Insider has experienced better sound to Windows that's no surprise. I am trying to suggest some ways I and many others have found siginificant improvments to sound quality in Windows.
Windows has its benefits

 

[insider9]

Didn't realise this could turn into a mini cable thread like debate.

 

[Andrewjvt]

That these hifi manufacturers are really cashing in on streaming as much as they can.

I had a very interesting chat with the sales manager at benchmark about this.

Btw he recommended that I stick with cheap laptop.

I also.may start another thread soon that will start world war 3 between 'believers' and 'non believer's'

 

[ellisdj]

or take my advice 

Which nobody should do. EVER!

I shouldnt do but I have taken offence to this - how about money where mouth is I will come to you and listen to yours and then you come to me and listen to mine and decide after, or the other way around - how does that sound?

A) In case you missed it, I have nothing but contempt for you and the BS you perpetuate!

WTF would I spend time in your company, let alone allow you in my house?

B ) The fact you still don't get why that would be utterly pointless/meaningless thing to do just reinforces my opinion

I'd be happy to provide a RasPi Zero to be pitted against your BS tweaked Windows setup for an independent, properly conducted blind/ABX test though if anyone has the experience/fancies the challenge...

 

read what you have written again.

I am willing and know I can show you why I say what I say. The proof is in the pudding. I was willing to show you and all I asked was you show me why you think what I say is so wrong to the point where you feel so strongly about me as you do. I know I would change your opinion on me and what I say.

If you can't stand to be the in the presence of someone you have never met that has a different opinion to you on hifi I find that a little odd to be honest ??

Bring the Raspberry pi with you

 

[insider9]

Debate is good. That's what the forum is for.

 

[ellisdj]

Well if you havent tried it in the studios you setup how do they know it wont sound better afterwards?  Like anything its only good until you hear better then its not good anymore 

how do you know they haven't? - edit - ignore that, I mis-read the original comment - apologies, but i'm honest, so i'll leave it in.

I have tried turning off unessesary services on a studio setup - heard a difference - blind tested - couldn't tell the difference, like a lot of things.

have you ever tried double blind testing all of the changes you make?  (again, I don't expect to you, but if you haven't, how can you rule them out is all i'm saying)

We argued years ago about this same subject I was suggesting you try a script.

you said you tried it however the time frame in which you replied to say it made no difference was not even long enough to go through it all select the options you might need let alone have a good listen then reset back to normal to compare so no I don't think you have ever tried it. Because to try it properly especially if doing DIY would take hours and hours of messing and you need serious motivation for that. Clearly your not interested in the topic enough to do it which is fair enough.
Turning off some services is just one stage of the process the rest is far more complex. Plus you need pretty much them all off Inc Windows explorer

 

[ellisdj]

Didn't realise this could turn into a mini cable thread like debate.

me and cheesboy have history over this subject.

sorry about that - try fidelizer for free try jplay for free try process lassoss for free.
Take the time to get the settings right for each and see what you think

The big one for Windows 10 and server is Audiophile optimiser but you can't try that for free.
One of the top amp designers Bascom King uses Audiophile Optimiser from an optimised pc or laptop not sure which. He is the chap who just designed the ps audio BHK line up so some manufacturers and designers agree it sounds best.

You will hear him talk about this in one of his PS Audio interviews on YT

 

[Craig M.]

In the past I’ve done lots of comparisons between Windows and Mac, also different software that people have sworn made a difference to sound quality (anyone remember Amarra?). All bull in my opinion. If it’s bit-perfect it’s the same, end of story. It’s like the argument between a hdd and a ssd, makes no difference at all, aside from anything else whatever the data is read from gets buffered to memory before going to the output device. And as to the hifi industry using dedicated streamers, so what - why would anyone be surprised by that? It’s all part of the ******** that follows this hobby round like a bad smell. Personally I hate it and can’t respect anyone who swallows it, let alone those who promote it.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I would just buy a very good sound card for your PC and not use the Motherboard sound chip and I’ve had a IMac and I didn’t find it that good with sound I had to buy a separate speakers for it with built in amplifier which was far better then the iMac speakers.

But now gone back to windows and brought a cheap laptop as it does the same job