Windows 8.....A simple synopsis please.

[bigboss]

This was the initial reaction when iPad was first launched:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/21/steve_jobs_was_annoyed_and_depressed_over_initial_reaction_to_ipad_launch.html

The reaction on the forum was mixed as well:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/mp3-mp4/apples-ipad-launch-the-details-in-full

 

[SnowyJohn]

Indeed PC sales are in decline, because people acknowledge that they don't need a large computer with a large HDD to do their daily tasks. I'm not opposing the OS because it's different, I'm opposing it because it doesn't target what should still be Microsoft's target audience.

I am not being ignorant when I say that a touchscreen OS is not what the vast majority of users (ie. professionals) need or want or could use. It's fine for personal use, don't get me wrong, but I really think this whole 'work / play' (see Microsoft website) is total nonsense. It is, as you've pointed out, a (desperate) attempt to gain market share in the tablet and mobile phone market, but in doing so, producing a OS where 'work' is literally a secondary function where PC workers should certainly be the target audience.

I don't need a touch screen PC to play with. I can already play games on my PC should I want to, but better still, I'd use a tablet. After all, that's what Windows RT is for, right?

 

[cheeseboy]

I am not being ignorant when I say that a touchscreen OS is not what the vast majority of users (ie. professionals) need or want or could use. It's fine for personal use, don't get me wrong, but I really think this whole 'work / play' (see Microsoft website) is total nonsense. It is, as you've pointed out, a (desperate) attempt to gain market share in the tablet and mobile phone market, but in doing so, producing a OS where 'work' is literally a secondary function where PC workers should certainly be the target audience.

I don't need a touch screen PC to play with. I can already play games on my PC should I want to, but better still, I'd use a tablet. After all, that's what Windows RT is for, right?

It's not just a touchscreen os though. Sorry, that's just ignorance talking. Think of the metro ui as a very large start menu +. All the back end is still there that you are talking about. In fact for work related purposes the new metro front end could be a godsend as you can set it up to just have the applications you need to use in your work environment. the amount of support calls generated by people who actually don't know how to use the basics of windows properly (even when they think they do) is actually a lot higher than most people would presume.

windows 8 also gives a functionality to boot a customised version of windows from a usb key, so you could theoretically give your staff a work version of windows to take home and use on their home pc, without having to worry about security etc.

There's also a greater tie in with things like sharepoint, lync and the new windows 8 phones.

so, whilst you are beating a stick about touchscreen ui and saying it's no good for "workers" you're completely missing all the other advantages that are there specifically for the workers and that are actually massive advancement in the working environment.

A quick overview of the main new enterprise features here http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/products-and-technologies/windows-8/enterprise-edition.aspx

 

[SnowyJohn]

It's not just a touchscreen os though. Sorry, that's just ignorance talking. Think of the metro ui as a very large start menu +. All the back end is still there that you are talking about. In fact for work related purposes the new metro front end could be a godsend as you can set it up to just have the applications you need to use in your work environment. the amount of support calls generated by people who actually don't know how to use the basics of windows properly (even when they think they do) is actually a lot higher than most people would presume.

It is a touchscreen OS. And it's a mouse OS. That's my quarrel. I'm not addressing the undoubtly infinite problems that only time will reveal. I can imagine it will be even more difficult to understand the source of problems inside this OS when they arise. With regards to the customer support, I would bet the number of customer calls will be far surpass historic numbers... Ok, perhaps not Vista numbers.

so, whilst you are beating a stick about touchscreen ui and saying it's no good for "workers" you're completely missing all the other advantages that are there specifically for the workers and that are actually massive advancement in the working environment.

Again, this isn't my quarrel, however, one would expect there to be improvements in this OS for workers, but again, let's just see how quickly this completely overhaulled OS is integreted into businesses. Please do feel free to convince me that this OS is not bloated with all that touchscreen shananigans.

 

[cheeseboy]

It is a touchscreen OS. And it's a mouse OS. That's my quarrel. I'm not addressing the undoubtly infinite problems that only time will reveal. I can imagine it will be even more difficult to understand the source of problems inside this OS when they arise. With regards to the customer support, I would bet the number of customer calls will be far surpass historic numbers... Ok, perhaps not Vista numbers.

Infinite problems :rofl: what are you on about? more difficult to understand the problems inside the os :help: :rofl:

Again, this isn't my quarrel, however, one would expect there to be improvements in this OS for workers, but again, let's just see how quickly this completely overhaulled OS is integreted into businesses. Please do feel free to convince me that this OS is not bloated with all that touchscreen shananigans.

Ahhh, so I need to convince you now eh? How about you convince me that you know what you are talking about instead of coming up with the usual "it's a touchscreen os" rhetoric? What do you mean by bloated? Have you even used it properly?

 

[cheeseboy]

It is a touchscreen OS. And it's a mouse OS. That's my quarrel. I'm not addressing the undoubtly infinite problems that only time will reveal. I can imagine it will be even more difficult to understand the source of problems inside this OS when they arise. With regards to the customer support, I would bet the number of customer calls will be far surpass historic numbers... Ok, perhaps not Vista numbers.

Infinite problems :rofl: what are you on about? more difficult to understand the problems inside the os :help: :rofl:

Again, this isn't my quarrel, however, one would expect there to be improvements in this OS for workers, but again, let's just see how quickly this completely overhaulled OS is integreted into businesses. Please do feel free to convince me that this OS is not bloated with all that touchscreen shananigans.

Ahhh, so I need to convince you now eh? How about you convince me that you know what you are talking about instead of coming up with the usual "it's a touchscreen os" rhetoric? What do you mean by bloated? Have you even used it properly?

 

[SnowyJohn]

What's your problem? Perhaps you should stop rolling around take a look at the points I've made.

It's an OS that is orientated to attracting new customers by introducing touch screen.

The touchscreen gimmick must draw system resources.

Why is touchscreen as standard? Is there really no mouse-only OS?

 

[bigboss]

SnowyJohn, I think you're getting confused here. My laptop isn't a touchscreen one, yet I'm enjoying Windows 8. If you don't have a touchscreen, simply use a mouse. It's as simple as that!

With regards to system resources, you will be surprised to know that Windows 8 actually uses less system resources than Windows 7. In fact even the PC specs required to run Windows 8 is actually lower than Windows 7.

 

[fr0g]

Windows 7 50%, XP 35% of OS market. Globally. Don't know what market sure you're on about but regardless, changing the main PC OS to a touchscreen compatible is not what the world needs.

It's not what the world needs, but Microsoft sure do. The alternate "metro" screen is certainly overkill on a desktop, or non-touch, but works pretty much the same as the start button did before.

Business and enterprise will never go over to such a consume-only device as a tablet, but it seems that a huge many consumers are willing to give up decent sized screens and proper keyboards for the convenience of them. And there is a huge amount of money in that and the smart-phone market, which Microsoft would be stupid to ignore.

So while they have a big dominance in the laptop and desktop market, why not use it to promote familiarity?...ie going forward a couple of years, people will very possibly be buying a WIndows phone or tablet because it works the same as their PC.

And why force metro on non-touch screens?...to force people to see it and get used to it...and to persuade developers to add to the fairly sparse Windows store...

And in the end, as I can attest to, it works just as well as W7, but is quicker to boot, faster, more secure and cheaper.

I am a developer (not that type), and I even have it on my work machine. It certainly hasn't slowed me down any.

 

[professorhat]

I'm sure the other thing Microsoft are considering is the increase in the up take of the "BYOD" strategy companies are taking (BYOD = Bring Your Own Device). What this does is give company workers the ability to buy their own laptop / desktop / tablet (with a subsidy paid by the company) and the company then rollout their standard applications to this. This can be done via a variety of methods (some of which allow Windows programs to run on Linux / Mac operating systems) - this means some companies limit choice to certain devices, whilst others allow their users to get anything they want.

The advantage for the user is, they get their own home device with a large part of it paid by the company meaning they can get something much more expensive than they'd usually get. The advantage to the company is, they don't have hundreds / thousands / tens of thousands of laptops on their books, gradually ageing, losing value, requiring replacement or expensive warranty extensions etc. etc. Take away all that management and save yourself a lot of money. Generally, if done right, you can also ensure the security of company data much more easily and make activities such as patching, new application rollouts etc. etc. much easier (again saving money over the traditional approach).

How does this all affect Microsoft? Well, you only have to watch TV and you see virtually every one nowadays uses a Macbook. Maybe a few people have a Sony. But they're nearly all MacBooks. And, as we know, people love their iPhone and iPads. I'm pretty sure many people don't buy MacBooks because of the price. Now imagine suddenly your company is giving you £500 (or possibly more) to go towards your own laptop. That Macbook suddenly becomes a lot more of an attractive option.

Microsoft are desperately trying to up their image. Their advertising is now much more "cool" (sorry, not sure how else to describe this!). Not even willing to rely on 3rd parties to design PCs any more, they've taken the unprecedented step of developing their own hardware (the Surface and soon to arrive Surface Pro) - both very desirable bits of kit. Windows 8 is another step in the process - it's designed to attract the consumer because, in tomorrow's corporate world, it could well be the consumers who decide what work device they use.

 

[SnowyJohn]

That's more like it. The last few comments make some good points. I appreciate that MS must try all it can to attempt to stay near, or on, the top of the heap.

It would annoy me greatly to know that the touchscreen functions affect performance or that something is always running in the background which I would never use... like leaving the light on in a room I do not/cannot use. I would, and believe businesses on the whole would, prefer the option for the touchscreen aspect to be an optional extra. One less thing that could get in the way.

 

[bigboss]

Well, the touchscreen aspect is an optional extra even now. The live tiles are a lot more useful than just being optimised for touchscreen use. All my notifications (mail, calendar, Facebook, twitter, Skype etc.) is directly visible on the desktop. The weather tile shows me the latest weather update without me having to go in the application.

 

[SteveR750]

I'm sure the other thing Microsoft are considering is the increase in the up take of the "BYOD" strategy companies are taking (BYOD = Bring Your Own Device). What this does is give company workers the ability to buy their own laptop / desktop / tablet (with a subsidy paid by the company) and the company then rollout their standard applications to this. This can be done via a variety of methods (some of which allow Windows programs to run on Linux / Mac operating systems) - this means some companies limit choice to certain devices, whilst others allow their users to get anything they want.

The advantage for the user is, they get their own home device with a large part of it paid by the company meaning they can get something much more expensive than they'd usually get. The advantage to the company is, they don't have hundreds / thousands / tens of thousands of laptops on their books, gradually ageing, losing value, requiring replacement or expensive warranty extensions etc. etc. Take away all that management and save yourself a lot of money. Generally, if done right, you can also ensure the security of company data much more easily and make activities such as patching, new application rollouts etc. etc. much easier (again saving money over the traditional approach).

This BYOD is common in North America, certainly for mobile phones anyway, but not come across any of my business contacts in engineering / manufacturing / automotive that do it this way in Europe; yet anyway. I was going to add that a significant number of businesses still run XP pro and blackberry phones. Most of us simply want to be sure that Outlook is syncing fully with Outlook - I'm sure I am not alone in having no interest in combining my personal PC and phone with work, plus it would require a huge change in the roaming pricing structure for it to work over here.

 

[professorhat]

This BYOD is common in North America, certainly for mobile phones anyway, but not come across any of my business contacts in engineering / manufacturing / automotive that do it this way in Europe; yet anyway. I was going to add that a significant number of businesses still run XP pro and blackberry phones. Most of us simply want to be sure that Outlook is syncing fully with Outlook - I'm sure I am not alone in having no interest in combining my personal PC and phone with work, plus it would require a huge change in the roaming pricing structure for it to work over here.

Not sure about phones, but more and more of our clients are asking about it for laptops / desktops / tablets, and are attracted to the cost savings it can bring them. We're also looking at it internally - and yes, we still use XP and BlackBerry - hence the attraction to it as a lot of our kit is ageing and needs replacing. There aren't many companies doing it here in the UK yet, but I think it's definitely on its way. And of course, as you say, it's common in USA which is obviously a market Microsoft is very interested in!

Not sure why this requires huge changes in roaming pricing structures though? At the moment, I travel with my work laptop and sometimes need to connect to 3rd party wireless networks and I just charge back any cost (if there is one) to my company through the expenses system. If I had a business requirement for one, I could order a 3G dongle (which again, would be charged back to my company). I don't see why this would need to change - other than 3G becoming 4G soon hopefully.

 

[SnowyJohn]

Well, the touchscreen aspect is an optional extra even now.

How's that?

 

[bigboss]

Well, the touchscreen aspect is an optional extra even now.

How's that?

If you don't have a touchscreen laptop, use a mouse (like I do).

 

[bigboss]

Sorry Cno. Your thread has been effectively derailed.

 

[SnowyJohn]

Well, the touchscreen aspect is an optional extra even now.

How's that?

If you don't have a touchscreen laptop, use a mouse (like I do).

haha.. not the type of optional extra I'm talking about...

If you plugged a touchscreen monitor into a Windows 7, it wouldn't work. If you plugged it into a Windows 8, it (probably) would. If I'm right in my understanding, there must be resources being used on your non-touch-enabled laptop ready for a touchscreen to be connected...

 

[bigboss]

You're ignoring the point that Windows 8 uses less resources than Windows 7 with even the touch aspect. Besides, there's a switch to enable or disable touchscreen

http://techmell.com/how-to/tutorial-enable-disable-touchscreen-windows-8/

 

[SnowyJohn]

There aren't many companies doing it here in the UK yet, but I think it's definitely on its way. And of course, as you say, it's common in USA which is obviously a market Microsoft is very interested in!

That's a good too... I guess whilst the UK isn't there yet, the main market might well be...

Still, I wouldn't want my personal laptop being burdened with all the programs and documents from work.

I expect the future to made up of to virtual machines where work machines contain no data but just act as a portal to a large central server.

 

[SnowyJohn]

You're right, I am ignoring the point that it uses less resources than Windows 7. It's still there, running, ready... specifically designed to be used with a finger! If, by disabling the finger input as that link says, there are no processes running then I'd be happy.... kind of...

 

[professorhat]

There aren't many companies doing it here in the UK yet, but I think it's definitely on its way. And of course, as you say, it's common in USA which is obviously a market Microsoft is very interested in!

That's a good too... I guess whilst the UK isn't there yet, the main market might well be...

Still, I wouldn't want my personal laptop being burdened with all the programs and documents from work.

I expect the future to made up of to virtual machines where work machines contain no data but just act as a portal to a large central server.

That's how many of these solutions work i.e. you don't actually have anything installed locally - it's all accessed remotely via a connection to the internet - your company "desktop" actually runs on a server in a data centre somewhere. This only works for people always online of course. For those that work offline a lot (like myself), you have to have something to run locally. There needn't be any inter-mingling of data though - in fact most companies would ensure their programs and data were safely tucked away and encrypted, only accessible with the relevant passwords / authentication cards etc. You would need to ensure there was enough space for this and your personal stuff, but that would be set out in the guidelines to choosing an appropriate device e.g. your company data will consume xx GB of space so ensure you buy something with this in mind.

You're right, I am ignoring the point that it uses less resources than Windows 7. It's still there, running, ready... specifically designed to be used with a finger! If, by disabling the finger input as that link says, there are no processes running then I'd be happy.... kind of...

I suspect like most things in Windows, the touch screen is installed if it's needed, otherwise not (and thus no extra resource is used). Much the same as a printer - Windows supports hundreds / thousands of printers natively, but the drivers for them don't all load just in case - they're only installed and run if Windows detects the relevant printer.

 

[fr0g]

You're right, I am ignoring the point that it uses less resources than Windows 7. It's still there, running, ready... specifically designed to be used with a finger! If, by disabling the finger input as that link says, there are no processes running then I'd be happy.... kind of...

Do a ctrl alt del or right click your task bar.. Select the task manager. Now look at the processes, services etc running on your existing windows version. There's hundreds. You're barking up the wrong tree entirely to even worry about "extra" resources.

 

[fr0g]

How does this all affect Microsoft? Well, you only have to watch TV and you see virtually every one nowadays uses a Macbook. Maybe a few people have a Sony. But they're nearly all MacBooks.

In what context?

Most laptops are Windows.

Macbooks may take up a big slice of the high end market and certainly the slimline form over function market, but they are a tiny fraction in terms of overall laptop usage.

 

[smarkgee]

As we are buying my son a laptop for school (and gaming), can anyone familiar with W8 give a simple "pros vs cons" overview, as compared to W7.

Has it been out long enough to be given a reasonably "clean bill of health "?.....ie. when all is said and done, is it worth going for. :?

first of all i haven't used win 8.

however my understranading is that it will be pretty much the same for your experisnce on a lap top. all the touch screen stuff is for Microsoft's foray into the mobile world.

the 'engine' behind it all i'm pretty sure will be VERY similar to win7.

I would imagine that there will be a few new bells and whistles but everything else will work as before although you may well be more likely to encounter comptibility issues especially if there is any 64bit version available.

so go for 32 bit win7. IMHO...the safe choice that you already know how to fix. (maybe)