Excellent though it was in its time (and still is for an HD Ready set), we no longer use the 42in, two-generations-old Pioneer as a reference at that size - we'll use our current top-rated Full HD sets (eg Philips). Our Kuro 5090 gets used for pretty-much anything 46in+.
Thanks for the prompt reply Clare.
Good to know that the Pioneer Kuros can be beaten by the newer sets. However, I wonder how long more we will have to wait for someone to come up with a set that can beat the Kuro 5090.
Good to know that the Pioneer Kuros can be beaten by the newer sets. However, I wonder how long more we will have to wait for someone to come up with a set that can beat the Kuro 5090.
seakingadvice:Thanks for the prompt reply Clare.Good to know that the Pioneer Kuros can be beaten by the newer sets. However, I wonder how long more we will have to wait for someone to come up with a set that can beat the Kuro 5090.
Hi,
At least a couple of years imho & this is why I believe so: The Kuro was designed from concept as a 'No Compromise" set - price was not a consideration in it's development afaik, it was a factor applied afterwards. Most companies do the complete opposite - they price bracket a set and build to that price and then stagger a series of sets with more functions & better performance higher up the range. If you look at the best Sharp, Sony or Panasonic offer today with their very top ends then you are talking very silly money. Any future sets that will be able to match or better the Kuro's in all aspects too will be top end sets with very silly prices too. Just look at the current Panny Plasma range - so many models with tiered performance until you get to the flagship Z Series which costs way more than most Kuro's even but still cannot match on overall performance. It will be the same next year or the year after - you will get staggered tiers of performance as is normal but with possibly the flagship models rivalling the Kuro's performance in most areas but they will cost some very serious money imho.
Bazzy!
Hi,
At least a couple of years imho & this is why I believe so: The Kuro was designed from concept as a 'No Compromise" set - price was not a consideration in it's development afaik, it was a factor applied afterwards. Most companies do the complete opposite - they price bracket a set and build to that price and then stagger a series of sets with more functions & better performance higher up the range. If you look at the best Sharp, Sony or Panasonic offer today with their very top ends then you are talking very silly money. Any future sets that will be able to match or better the Kuro's in all aspects too will be top end sets with very silly prices too. Just look at the current Panny Plasma range - so many models with tiered performance until you get to the flagship Z Series which costs way more than most Kuro's even but still cannot match on overall performance. It will be the same next year or the year after - you will get staggered tiers of performance as is normal but with possibly the flagship models rivalling the Kuro's performance in most areas but they will cost some very serious money imho.
Bazzy!
Probably I was misunderstood because I did not ask if you are still using the 428XD as a reference but my question to you was if Philips LCD TV or other of your reference sets beats 42" Pioneer Plasma TV and how?
I'd still back the 42in Pioneer for class-leading black levels, and a firm grip on motion, but it can't escape its lower-resolution, HD Ready spec - with HD content (TV or Blu-ray), you simply see much more detail on newer, higher-resolution Full HD rivals. The newer sets also offer more in terms of connectivity, if that matters to you.
Hi Clare,
Thanks for the clarification.
What about for SD content? Would it look better on the HD Ready Pioneer or its Full HD rivals?
Thanks.
Thanks for the clarification.
What about for SD content? Would it look better on the HD Ready Pioneer or its Full HD rivals?
Thanks.
Clare Newsome:I'd still back the 42in Pioneer for class-leading black levels, and a firm grip on motion, but it can't escape its lower-resolution, HD Ready spec - with HD content (TV or Blu-ray), you simply see much more detail on newer, higher-resolution Full HD rivals. The newer sets also offer more in terms of connectivity, if that matters to you.
Clare,
Thank you for your prompt respond and clarification. Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
Thanks.
FD
Clare,
Thank you for your prompt respond and clarification. Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
Thanks.
FD
Sorreltiger
Well-known member
Logically, I would expect SD content to look better on HD Ready TVs like my 4280 as there's less scaling to do. I have never seen anything better. As an example, PQ for last night's 'New Tricks' on BBC1 was very good indeed. The image is obviously grainier than HD, but has a really solid feel with few nasty artefacts and no distracting picture noise.
Yes, blu-ray images are never quite pin sharp, but - as Claire says - the overall image is absolutely stunning. Fortunately for me, I would have to say that the most impressive pictures overall are often when I'm watching Sky Sports!
IMHO it really is worth choosing according to viewing needs. There are different solutions for different people.
Yes, blu-ray images are never quite pin sharp, but - as Claire says - the overall image is absolutely stunning. Fortunately for me, I would have to say that the most impressive pictures overall are often when I'm watching Sky Sports!
IMHO it really is worth choosing according to viewing needs. There are different solutions for different people.
Fire Dragon:
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example) - though if £1500 is too pricey for you, Panasonic's 42in plasmas - particularly the TX-42P42G10, which is an awesome-value Freesat set - are definitely worth checking out, along with Samsung's LED TVs.
As for Pioneer's tackling of SD - yes, the HD Ready set if having to do less work upscaling the content, and it has a fine upscaler for TV and more. If you only ever watch SD, it could be your best option - but with even @£200 Blu-ray players now offering fantastic DVD upscaling AND HD excellence, Full HD is the future
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example) - though if £1500 is too pricey for you, Panasonic's 42in plasmas - particularly the TX-42P42G10, which is an awesome-value Freesat set - are definitely worth checking out, along with Samsung's LED TVs.
As for Pioneer's tackling of SD - yes, the HD Ready set if having to do less work upscaling the content, and it has a fine upscaler for TV and more. If you only ever watch SD, it could be your best option - but with even @£200 Blu-ray players now offering fantastic DVD upscaling AND HD excellence, Full HD is the future
The_Lhc
Well-known member
Clare Newsome:
Fire Dragon:
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example
clare are you saying you get a better all round picture on the sonys for say footy on hd plus sd. and what do you mean that you get more detail on the 9 series 664
Fire Dragon:
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example
clare are you saying you get a better all round picture on the sonys for say footy on hd plus sd. and what do you mean that you get more detail on the 9 series 664
The Philips offers better contrast and detail resolution than the Sonys (or indeed any other set at this size than we've tested - it's a truly great TV), and is also impressive with motion - though the 200Hz Sony is even better with fast action in, say, movies and sport.
Take your time, take your favourite discs, and have a good look at options - Sky Sports News (available on Freeview) is a good demo channel in-store, both for snippets of action and the tricky-to-render ticker bar at the bottom of the screen.
Take your time, take your favourite discs, and have a good look at options - Sky Sports News (available on Freeview) is a good demo channel in-store, both for snippets of action and the tricky-to-render ticker bar at the bottom of the screen.
Clare - A tough question for youto answer this, but, If customers were able to find a Sony W5500 with little or no back light bleed, is this a better TV than the test winning Philips 9664? Given that the price differebce is at least £600??
good question nick , £600 is a lot of money , even if the phillips was better , how much better would it be ?? i think its easy to get carried away in pursuit of perfection , the differences between the top tvs must surely be marginal , all the recent sonys whfi have reviewed have had some sort of bleed , but they have said that each one would have got 5 stars otherwise , and they are the best lcds with motion , i think the w5500 is a bargain if you can get one thats working perfectly , phillips have lost the plot with their prices id say ...
cheers for reply clare
i had it in my head to buy the 664 on thursday,when i entered the store it was right in front of me looking fantastic. i am a bit sad but i gave it a little tap round the back just to see and feel how well built this lcd is as a lot of the tvs on the marget look and feel week and cheap even tho they can cost a bomb, however the 664 had sky sports2 HD playing a footy match and at certain parts in the game the ghosting that appeared looked like there was 48 players on the pitch, now i love the look of this set so would you say this is common or with a bit of tweaking the problem can be solved, bearing in mind your mag rates it miles ahead of the ones in the most recent test, or can you recommend another set for watching sports, got admit to the amberlight is a bit special wish plasma had it then i think all my prayers would be answered.
i had it in my head to buy the 664 on thursday,when i entered the store it was right in front of me looking fantastic. i am a bit sad but i gave it a little tap round the back just to see and feel how well built this lcd is as a lot of the tvs on the marget look and feel week and cheap even tho they can cost a bomb, however the 664 had sky sports2 HD playing a footy match and at certain parts in the game the ghosting that appeared looked like there was 48 players on the pitch, now i love the look of this set so would you say this is common or with a bit of tweaking the problem can be solved, bearing in mind your mag rates it miles ahead of the ones in the most recent test, or can you recommend another set for watching sports, got admit to the amberlight is a bit special wish plasma had it then i think all my prayers would be answered.
Andrew Everard:New winner, longest sentence on the forums...
do i win anything for starting the longest thread of the year ???
do i win anything for starting the longest thread of the year ???
Clare Newsome:
Fire Dragon:
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example) - though if £1500 is too pricey for you, Panasonic's 42in plasmas - particularly the TX-42P42G10, which is an awesome-value Freesat set - are definitely worth checking out, along with Samsung's LED TVs.
As for Pioneer's tackling of SD - yes, the HD Ready set if having to do less work upscaling the content, and it has a fine upscaler for TV and more. If you only ever watch SD, it could be your best option - but with even @£200 Blu-ray players now offering fantastic DVD upscaling AND HD excellence, Full HD is the future
Clare,
Thank you for been so helpful.
FD
Fire Dragon:
Is there any new Full HD 42" TV set that I can buy with that sort of motion grip?
The best we've seen - and yes, that includes 2009 plasmas - are Sony's 40W5500 and 40Z5500: this generation of Sony Motionflow is exceptionally good. So, if you can find a set without backlight bleed (and/or a retailer happy to exchange the set if you find any) they're a great buy.
The 42in Phiiips 9 Series is superb, too, and highly recommended for all-round performance (beating the Sonys for detail, for example) - though if £1500 is too pricey for you, Panasonic's 42in plasmas - particularly the TX-42P42G10, which is an awesome-value Freesat set - are definitely worth checking out, along with Samsung's LED TVs.
As for Pioneer's tackling of SD - yes, the HD Ready set if having to do less work upscaling the content, and it has a fine upscaler for TV and more. If you only ever watch SD, it could be your best option - but with even @£200 Blu-ray players now offering fantastic DVD upscaling AND HD excellence, Full HD is the future
Clare,
Thank you for been so helpful.
FD
Will start new thread re Sony / Philips price / quality question. Dont want to hijack the longest thread of the year.....even thugh this does keep it going a bit longer....
Getting back on track with the original question of "will the Kuro ever be beaten", there may be a contender.
Panasonic have their 'Premier Plasma' range. These are monitors much in the vein of the Pioneer KRP series. From what I've read and heard they are rather special. They use next gen Panasonic electronics (i.e. what you'll get in next years Panasonic consumer range), a modular connection design (you can specify what input boards you have in the back: HDMI, component etc.) and a rather tasteful brushed aluminium bezel. Oh and they have a 'straight through' mode, bypassing all internal processing so you can use an external video processor without fear of the panel messing around with the signal.
On to the picture. I haven't seen one of these screens but I have spoken to an ISF engineer who has. He claims that it is a 'worthy sucessor' to the Kuro panels. Whilst they don't have quite the 'inky' blacks of the Kuro, they are able to extract more shadow detail than the Pioneers (which, good as they are may crush black detail a tiny bit IMHO) and have a slightly sharper and cleaner image. They have none of the plasma 'shimmer' that is evident on some screens.
Problem is, as is often the case, they cost an arm and a leg. Can't tell you how much though, as the other probem is they don't appear to be available in the UK. No mention of them on the UK Panasonic website. Surprising really considering the hole left by Pioneer. They are in the States and you can see them on the Australian website. Time for someone to start hassling Panasonic UK?
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
Panasonic have their 'Premier Plasma' range. These are monitors much in the vein of the Pioneer KRP series. From what I've read and heard they are rather special. They use next gen Panasonic electronics (i.e. what you'll get in next years Panasonic consumer range), a modular connection design (you can specify what input boards you have in the back: HDMI, component etc.) and a rather tasteful brushed aluminium bezel. Oh and they have a 'straight through' mode, bypassing all internal processing so you can use an external video processor without fear of the panel messing around with the signal.
On to the picture. I haven't seen one of these screens but I have spoken to an ISF engineer who has. He claims that it is a 'worthy sucessor' to the Kuro panels. Whilst they don't have quite the 'inky' blacks of the Kuro, they are able to extract more shadow detail than the Pioneers (which, good as they are may crush black detail a tiny bit IMHO) and have a slightly sharper and cleaner image. They have none of the plasma 'shimmer' that is evident on some screens.
Problem is, as is often the case, they cost an arm and a leg. Can't tell you how much though, as the other probem is they don't appear to be available in the UK. No mention of them on the UK Panasonic website. Surprising really considering the hole left by Pioneer. They are in the States and you can see them on the Australian website. Time for someone to start hassling Panasonic UK?
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
The_Lhc
Well-known member
runcible: Problem is, as is often the case, they cost an arm and a leg. Can't tell you how much though, as the other probem is they don't appear to be available in the UK. No mention of them on the UK Panasonic website. Surprising really considering the hole left by Pioneer. They are in the States and you can see them on the Australian website. Time for someone to start hassling Panasonic UK?
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£".
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
I'm sure I've never mentioned...
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£".
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
I'm sure I've never mentioned...
the_lhc:
runcible: Problem is, as is often the case, they cost an arm and a leg. Can't tell you how much though, as the other probem is they don't appear to be available in the UK. No mention of them on the UK Panasonic website. Surprising really considering the hole left by Pioneer. They are in the States and you can see them on the Australian website. Time for someone to start hassling Panasonic UK?
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£".
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
I'm sure I've never mentioned...
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get
the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£". are u sure ?? try doing that with a car , things are much cheaper in the us ...
runcible: Problem is, as is often the case, they cost an arm and a leg. Can't tell you how much though, as the other probem is they don't appear to be available in the UK. No mention of them on the UK Panasonic website. Surprising really considering the hole left by Pioneer. They are in the States and you can see them on the Australian website. Time for someone to start hassling Panasonic UK?
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£".
There's a 50" (TH-50VX100) and a 65" (TH-65VX100). Have a google around, there are a number of reviews out there which should provide interesting reading. For what it's worth, I still plan on picking up one of the few remaining Pioneer KRP500s if I can. These things are practically legendary, just being able to say you own one is worth a few picture quality points
I'm sure I've never mentioned...
It's simple enough to find out how much they would cost over here, get
the $ price off the US website and then swap the "$" for "£". are u sure ?? try doing that with a car , things are much cheaper in the us ...
The_Lhc
Well-known member
I was thinking specifically of electronic goods, I know we get ripped off even more on american cars than we do anything else.
Clare Newsome:I'd still back the 42in Pioneer for class-leading black levels, and a firm grip on motion, but it can't escape its lower-resolution, HD Ready spec - with HD content (TV or Blu-ray), you simply see much more detail on newer, higher-resolution Full HD rivals. The newer sets also offer more in terms of connectivity, if that matters to you.
Claire, you are of course entitled to have your view, but it can be challenged. At least on many of the forum's I consider respectable the qualified experts still refer to Pioneer as the best ever 42in telly.
Remember that FullHD is not relly of any importance at these screen sizes and normal viewing distances. You need to sit gloser than 1.7 meter from a 42 inch FullHD telly to tell pixels apart, and thereby get the benifit of FullHD. If your eyes haven't been modified from the natural ones of course
It is all about physics: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1229341535
Claire, you are of course entitled to have your view, but it can be challenged. At least on many of the forum's I consider respectable the qualified experts still refer to Pioneer as the best ever 42in telly.
Remember that FullHD is not relly of any importance at these screen sizes and normal viewing distances. You need to sit gloser than 1.7 meter from a 42 inch FullHD telly to tell pixels apart, and thereby get the benifit of FullHD. If your eyes haven't been modified from the natural ones of course
It is all about physics: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1229341535
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