will the kuro ever be beaten ?

[admin_exported]

whats going on in the tv world ? the kuro has been around for over a year now , and every time an overhyped pretender to the crown comes along , it is either ( according to general opinion ) very close to the kuro , and more expensive , or no where near as close , and more expensive .. take the new sharp led lcd , said to be very close one way or another , and £9000 , the downpayment on a small house ( if you could get a mortgage ) , then you have the sony 55x4500 , some say as good as a kuro , but , £4600 , double the price .. next up is philips cinema 21.9 looks great , great picture , but , £4500 .. you can see a trend developing here , so along comes panasonics 46inch z1 , looks great , as skinny as kate moss , but a more expensive date ? £4300 , wireless this , neo that , it could probably turn on the heating before you arrived home , but what about the PICTURE QUALITY , er , not as good , so where is the challenge going to come from ?? ive read a review somewhere

of the samsung ps50b850 , which stated its as good as a kuro , mmm , and it costs £1500 , but are samsung likely to make a tv of that quality and charge less than their high end lcd sets , er , why would they ?? if it was that good they would probably add a soundbar , spray it nighthawk black , make a titanium remote control and charge £12000 ... as to my question , i wont hold my breath ...

 

[Anonymous]

I have seen Pioneer Kuro and Samsung UE468000 side by side. My experience was Kuro 5090's picture was more grainy than UE468000. Moreover UE468000 is stylish, very slim, having more fatures than Kuro. Nice picture quality and is available for £1600 i.e. £500 less than Kuro 5090. Its the other thing that some people prefer plasma picture than LCD and vice versa.

 

[drummerman]

Pioneer's Kuro are fine tv's ... and that's it. They are TV's, no more. If you want cinema in your home, buy a projector.

They are not all-rounders (no tv at 50" is), SD looks ragged and they lack the brightness to satisfy in all conditions.

Had I to do it all over again, I'd buy a pj and a decent 42" LCD (Samsung or Philips). If finances would'nt stretch that far, I'd still get either one of those, 46" maximum. Anything larger and SD looks almost unwatchable.

As always, my opinion only.

 

[Anonymous]

sure , plasma vs lcd is always a personal choice , i agree the lcd you chose is very good , i reccomended it , the general opinion based on reviews though is that the kuro is the best , not my opinion , i just have an interest in hd tvs , just passing time really , i guess you like what you like , i do wonder how other tv makers( samsung apart ) can price their tvs so much higher than the kuro though , if they are not better , why charge so much ?? features are nice , and have their place , but a tv is about picture quality after all ... for those who prefer lcd , i think the samsung b8000 gives the best bang for your buck at the moment , just my opinion ..and obviously yours too ..

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman:
Pioneer's Kuro are fine tv's ... and that's it. They are TV's, no more. If you want cinema in your home, buy a projector.

They are not all-rounders (no tv at 50" is), SD looks ragged and they lack the brightness to satisfy in all conditions.

Had I to do it all over again, I'd buy a pj and a decent 42" LCD (Samsung or Philips). If finances would'nt stretch that far, I'd still get either one of those, 46" maximum. Anything larger and SD looks almost unwatchable.

As always, my opinion only.

hi drummerman , i know you have had a kuro , so you are well qualified to comment on them , however , every review out there say they are the best tv hands down at displaying sd , of course one has to factor in size , as far as im aware a smaller tv has an advantage when showing sd , and maybe in a normal sized lounge would be more suitable , but if you matched the 50inch kuro against 50-52 inch lcds ( samsung or philips ) would either of them do sd better ? maybe the latest high end ones can , but up to now no reviewer has said so ...

 

[Anonymous]

More than likely, if you buy a Kuro (or a tv 50 inch and larger) you are serious about your viewing and wouldtry andwatch mainly HD content (blu-ray, sky hd, ps3, xbox360 etc) so SD performance would not be a big factor to these owners..........

 

[Bazzy]

Hi,

I know there are some people who have not been happy with their Kuro's but globally 99.99% of them are very satisfied and the sets have exceeded their expectations pretty much verifying what nearly every review from across the entire world states. In my opinion, there is no set out there at present - plasma or LCD that can come close to a Pioneer when it comes to SD - I looked at dozens myself.

Please remember that the Kuros were designed from the ground up to be a no compromise design in terms of performance at the time which is why the still lead the pack even today - everything else out there isÿbuiltÿto a budget and to a target market. When other brands deviate from this strategy - the result is the stupidly crazy prices on products the OP referred to and even they may only match or better the Kuro on one or two specificÿparametersÿbut certainly not as a whole cohesive experience - the Kuro has still not been bettered on that basis.ÿ

I do not believe you will see G9 Kuro black levels or SD performance for a number of years from any other brand that can be considered mainstream pricing or even slightly above - first, it would cost them a massive amount of money for the R&D just to catch up let alone surpass and then they will have to put prices up to compensate - it is just not in their business interests to do such at the best of times let alone in a depression and when all the brands are losing money faster than our politicians are telling lies. They are happy to offer less than absolute best and keep salesÿbuoyantÿinstead if they can.

Only when OLED comes into play will things drastically change but even then, one will have to wait a few years for the prices to come down to affordable levels. The new Samsung B850 (stunning looking set) has blacks that fall miles behind even last years Panasonic plasmas according to two reviews so far and this years latest Neo-PDP Plasmas are in turn still behind the G8 Kuros and miles behind the G9 Kuros. It goes to show why everything else that tries to claim the Kuro Crown is so much more crazily expensive and we were only months away from production of the Pioneer G10 Kuro's which were again to offer very significant improvements over the G9's - it truly shows how very far ahead of the game and everyone else Pioneer were.ÿ

ÿ

Bazzy!ÿ

 

[aliEnRIK]

drummerman:
Pioneer's Kuro are fine tv's ... and that's it. They are TV's, no more. If you want cinema in your home, buy a projector.

They are not all-rounders (no tv at 50" is), SD looks ragged and they lack the brightness to satisfy in all conditions.

Had I to do it all over again, I'd buy a pj and a decent 42" LCD (Samsung or Philips). If finances would'nt stretch that far, I'd still get either one of those, 46" maximum. Anything larger and SD looks almost unwatchable.

As always, my opinion only.

My dads 500A looks outstanding in all areas. I accept it doesnt go as 'white' as some tvs but all the details there and SD viewing is resplendent. Having said that, it IS connected through an Isotek Miras. Ive found Pioneers in particular seem to be highly susceptible to RFI and EMI

 

[Clare Newsome]

Someone from Pioneer surmised that other manufacturers have definitely closed the quality gap this year - but they predicted it'd be 2010 before you saw a true Kuro-beater (ie clearly better, not just in same ballpark) at the same or less money. From what we've seen so far, that seems a reasonable statement.

However, as mentioned in another thread, still new high-end fare from Samsung, Sony and others that we haven't done a direct Kuro comparison to. ..

 

[m.j]

i have lived with my kuro for 4 months now and in my opinion there are few things that you buy and are truly happy with , but in the last year i have had 3 such purchases

1. my iphone ( couldn't live without it now )

2. apple mac ( as above )

3. my kuro

everytime i look at it and admire its beauty, i feel lucky to have one

and when i watch a blu-ray , i wonder how on earth anyone will top the picture quality , its amazing ,it makes me smile every time i use it.

 

[nads]

I little Birdie told me that the Kuro may be coming back.

when Panna and Pio sort things out.

not holding my breath though.

 

[The_Lhc]

nads: I little Birdie told me that the Kuro may be coming back.

when Panna and Pio sort things out.

not holding my breath though.

Anything's possible I guess, if the world economy picks up sufficiently that people start spending money again it might happen, but given Pioneer's pretty small market share, I'm wondering if they'll consider it worth their while.

A representative from a TV manufacturer once told me that no-one made any money on CRT screens, they were all lossleaders to promote the rest of the range, I wouldn't be surprised if Plasmas are similar, I think the margins, if there are any, are tiny. The Pioneer dealer I got my KRP-500A from said that he'd been told Pioneer would really have liked to sell the KRP for £5k, not £2.5k, that way it would have been viable, financially, but the market just won't support that kind of pricing structure. When people see they can get a 50" screen for £600 it's very difficult to persuade them that they need to spend thousands on a screen of the same size.

Unfortunately, financial conditions mean that manufacturers can no longer support the kind of lossleading strategy that they've been using up until now, that, I should think, is why the new screens coming out appear to be so expensive, they're reflecting the true cost. The top end screens will become more aspirational, which, I'd imagine, the manufacturers will hope will make people more likely to buy the cheaper sets in the range, where's there's probably more margin available.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:nads: I little Birdie told me that the Kuro may be coming back.

when Panna and Pio sort things out.

not holding my breath though.

Anything's possible I guess, if the world economy picks up sufficiently that people start spending money again it might happen, but given Pioneer's pretty small market share, I'm wondering if they'll consider it worth their while.

A representative from a TV manufacturer once told me that no-one made any money on CRT screens, they were all lossleaders to promote the rest of the range, I wouldn't be surprised if Plasmas are similar, I think the margins, if there are any, are tiny. The Pioneer dealer I got my KRP-500A from said that he'd been told Pioneer would really have liked to sell the KRP for £5k, not £2.5k, that way it would have been viable, financially, but the market just won't support that kind of pricing structure. When people see they can get a 50" screen for £600 it's very difficult to persuade them that they need to spend thousands on a screen of the same size.

Unfortunately, financial conditions mean that manufacturers can no longer support the kind of lossleading strategy that they've been using up until now, that, I should think, is why the new screens coming out appear to be so expensive, they're reflecting the true cost. The top end screens will become more aspirational, which, I'd imagine, the manufacturers will hope will make people more likely to buy the cheaper sets in the range, where's there's probably more margin available.

that sounds like a pretty good summation of how things are , i wonder though , take panasonics latest range of plasmas , i may be wrong , but is the £4300 panasonic z1 not the same as the £1300 46g10 apart from all the xtras , different design , etc ?? if thats the case its hard to imagine the crazy price charged is justified ?? i still have my panasonic cobra stereo from 1995 , it still looks and sounds brilliant , real quality , unique at the time too , i think i paid £160 for it down tottenham court road , id say if the guys in charge of pricing at panasonic were around then it would have cost £600 , maybe im being sceptical , but i think some companies are taking the mick ...

 

[The_Lhc]

maxflinn: i wonder though , take panasonics latest range of plasmas , i may be wrong , but is the £4300 panasonic z1 not the same as the £1300 46g10 apart from all the xtras , different design , etc ??

I don't believe so, someone else will be better placed to answer this but I think display panels come in different grades of quality. if that's the case the one would hope the £4300 screen has a higher grade panel than the £1300 one, even allowing for all the extra gubbins.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Yes, there are different grades of display. But even with the same screens, the accompanying engineering/electronics can make a massive difference to the finished product: just look at what Pioneer accomplished with Sharp panels for its Kuro LCD TVs.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:nads: I little Birdie told me that the Kuro may be coming back.

when Panna and Pio sort things out.

not holding my breath though.

Anything's possible I guess, if the world economy picks up sufficiently that people start spending money again it might happen, but given Pioneer's pretty small market share, I'm wondering if they'll consider it worth their while.

Small market share?.....I wonder if that applies now given the amount of converts due to the massive reductions?

I always liked the Kuro's, but could not justify the cost, but as it was reduced b/4 Christmas by £600 I jumped at it, even though £1645 was still a lot IMO.

I too am in awe of this TV, and although I probably wouldn't have bought it had it not been reduced, I now find myself a Pioneer convert and would happily pay the going rate in the future............. I wonder how many more there are of us?

 

[The_Lhc]

piobob:the_lhc:nads: I little Birdie told me that the Kuro may be coming back.

when Panna and Pio sort things out. not holding my breath though.

Anything's possible I guess, if the world economy picks up sufficiently that people start spending money again it might happen, but given Pioneer's pretty small market share, I'm wondering if they'll consider it worth their while.

Small market share?

Yes, less than 7% I think Mr. E. said when Pioneer announced their pull-out.

.....I wonder if that applies now given the amount of converts due to the massive reductions?

Well, they're actually MORE expensive now than they were last year, but I do know the announcement saw a marked jump in Kuro sales, whether it was enough to boost their share I don't know, but not enough to make them change their minds I suspect.

I too am in awe of this TV, and although I probably wouldn't have bought it had it not been reduced, I now find myself a Pioneer convert and would happily pay the going rate in the future............. I wonder how many more there are of us?

I did pay the going rate! It was that or miss out altogether.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi,

"Iÿ always liked the Kuro's, but could not justify the cost, but as it was reduced b/4 Christmas by £600 I jumped at it, even though £1645 was still a lot IMO."ÿ

ÿ

Considering the prices of some of the new fancy models which are more than that, especially the new thin Edge LED LCD sets like the Samsung B7000/8000, Local Dimming LCD sets costing considerably more and Panny Z1 with prices best suited to another Galaxy most of which do not come with a free 5 year warranty thrown in (worth between £350-£450), I would say that your Kuro at £1645 with a 5 year warranty was an absolute bargain!

ÿ

Bazzy!ÿ

 

[Alec]

Whats this about different grades of panel?

 

[Anonymous]

i thinkpioneer will plan to come back, but not with plasma technolgy, prob wait until the OLED tech is up their. In the last two years Pioneer have had to sell their screens at a loss for them to sell, so that is why they pulled away. if your looking for kuro beater i would wait until next years pana range comes in.

 

[Anonymous]

murray_:
i thinkpioneer will plan to come back, but not with plasma technolgy, prob wait until the OLED tech is up their. In the last two years Pioneer have had to sell their screens at a loss for them to sell, so that is why they pulled away. if your looking for kuro beater i would wait until next years pana range comes in.

well if the price of the z1 is a guide you had better hope your lotto numbers come in first

 

[Anonymous]

maybe they already have

 

[lobby]

As Clare as said looking at the new Panasonic Plasma's and Samsung Lcd's the Pioneer Kuro's are still the ones to beat, but as Pioneer don't intend on making tv's anymore, and the Likes of Sony Samsung and Panasonic still have models to be released this year, we will all have to wait and see what their like. It could be this year or next year but someones going to bring a display unit that will become a Kuro beater and the next reference display.

 

[Clare Newsome]

al7478:Whats this about different grades of panel?

Manufacturers rarely make all their TVs with exactly the same quality of LCD or plasma panel at their heart - they have different factories and/or different production lines making varying grades of panel to suit sets at different price-points.

Sometimes this is as simple as one factory/line making last-year's generation of panels (were in last year's top-quality sets; now in this year's budget models) and another making the newest designs for the top-end TVs.

Then, of course you have manufacturers like Sony who don't make panels at all, but buy them in - again, at different levels depending on the product.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:I did pay the going rate! It was that or miss out altogether.

lol, it did cause a bit of a stampede.