matengawhat:this is an extreme example but also if you went to a concert you would feel the bass rumble in your stomach and your throat as well as hear it a little pair of standmounts can't do that so by your own definition you are missing the way music is portrayed now i agree an acoustic set, a garage setup, a studio a live gig all have different ways of presenting the sound that is impossible to record on to a disc and say thats the perfect way it should sound its a compromise and all i am saying is i prefer the extra ambience that my sub add in my setup to the music over using my standmounts aloneYou are quite right. Try a recording like Return To Froever Live at Montreux and try with and without a sub, the difference is night and day.
matengawhat
Well-known member
also for example in my setup although not at home so these figures are prob not exact but my speakers frequency response is 42Hz to 100kHz my sub is set to cross over somewhere around the 53/56Hz mark so if you then check that on the chart i mentioned earlier you will see it actually crosses quite a few instruments and helps out in the bass range not just the sub bass range
liujol:Personally, adding a subwoofer is just like adding icing on the cake
I hate Icing on cakes, but i get your point. For me the sub is part and parcel of HiFi.
I hate Icing on cakes, but i get your point. For me the sub is part and parcel of HiFi.
matengawhat:also for example in my setup although not at home so these figures are prob not exact but my speakers frequency response is 42Hz to 100kHz my sub is set to cross over somewhere around the 53/56Hz mark so if you then check that on the chart i mentioned earlier you will see it actually crosses quite a few instruments and helps out in the bass range not just the sub bass range
I think your missing the point. What's with all the statisics! If it sounds good to your ear than good. Who cares what settings the sub should be on. Just enjoy the music. Or the Movie.
I think your missing the point. What's with all the statisics! If it sounds good to your ear than good. Who cares what settings the sub should be on. Just enjoy the music. Or the Movie.
matengawhat:my sub is listed to 16Hz In Room at -6dB - not that techie so not sure what that actually means
Your sub can reach those (subterranean!) levels, but with roll off.
"Bass Roll Off simply decreases the volume of the bass... (it) does not eliminate or cut off the low frequencies."
Your sub can reach those (subterranean!) levels, but with roll off.
"Bass Roll Off simply decreases the volume of the bass... (it) does not eliminate or cut off the low frequencies."
matengawhat
Well-known member
rocky66:
matengawhat:also for example in my setup although not at home so these figures are prob not exact but my speakers frequency response is 42Hz to 100kHz my sub is set to cross over somewhere around the 53/56Hz mark so if you then check that on the chart i mentioned earlier you will see it actually crosses quite a few instruments and helps out in the bass range not just the sub bass range
I think your missing the point. What's with all the statisics! If it sounds good to your ear than good. Who cares what settings the sub should be on. Just enjoy the music. Or the Movie.
the ops a musician or at least plays the guitar so frequencies will be second nature to him
was jsut using it as an example that you shouldn't just think of subs as only playing the deepest of notes but that it also helps out in the normal bass range
matengawhat:also for example in my setup although not at home so these figures are prob not exact but my speakers frequency response is 42Hz to 100kHz my sub is set to cross over somewhere around the 53/56Hz mark so if you then check that on the chart i mentioned earlier you will see it actually crosses quite a few instruments and helps out in the bass range not just the sub bass range
I think your missing the point. What's with all the statisics! If it sounds good to your ear than good. Who cares what settings the sub should be on. Just enjoy the music. Or the Movie.
the ops a musician or at least plays the guitar so frequencies will be second nature to him
was jsut using it as an example that you shouldn't just think of subs as only playing the deepest of notes but that it also helps out in the normal bass range
AL13N:
the_lhc:Mind you not all subs will manage that either...
Most domestic subs don't go below 30Hz.
Most living rooms cannot physically reproduce a 30 hz note, so there would be little point.
the_lhc:Mind you not all subs will manage that either...
Most domestic subs don't go below 30Hz.
Most living rooms cannot physically reproduce a 30 hz note, so there would be little point.
If you cant listen to the full frequency range - your not getting the full picture they are painting infront of your eyes
Stick these on your wish list to hear real bass : Wilson Audio Thors Hammer / JL Audio Fathom F212 / Paradigm Signature Sub 2
Stick these on your wish list to hear real bass : Wilson Audio Thors Hammer / JL Audio Fathom F212 / Paradigm Signature Sub 2
The_Lhc
Well-known member
rocky66: Who cares what settings the sub should be on.
Err, anyone who wants their equipment properly set up?
Err, anyone who wants their equipment properly set up?
matengawhat
Well-known member
Vinny7:
If you cant listen to the full frequency range - your not getting the full picture they are painting infront of your eyes
Stick these on your wish list to hear real bass : Wilson Audio Thors Hammer / JL Audio Fathom F212 / Paradigm Signature Sub 2
Vinny7 not sure my house is that well made!!!!!
If you cant listen to the full frequency range - your not getting the full picture they are painting infront of your eyes
Stick these on your wish list to hear real bass : Wilson Audio Thors Hammer / JL Audio Fathom F212 / Paradigm Signature Sub 2
Vinny7 not sure my house is that well made!!!!!
hammill:AL13N:the_lhc:Mind you not all subs will manage that either...Most domestic subs don't go below 30Hz.Most living rooms cannot physically reproduce a 30 hz note, so there would be little point.
For incredibly accurate bass down to 20Hz in your average UK living room, professional studio headphones are the way to go.
However, you'd then be sacrificing soundstage, imaging ...
This hobby is full of compromises. You need to decide which you can live with and which you cannot. Then put together a system accordingly.
For incredibly accurate bass down to 20Hz in your average UK living room, professional studio headphones are the way to go.
However, you'd then be sacrificing soundstage, imaging ...
This hobby is full of compromises. You need to decide which you can live with and which you cannot. Then put together a system accordingly.
Well this is a pretty intersting thread. I was thinking about getting a sub for myself. I currently have the Mordaunt short 902i's and was looking to get the matching sub or same brand at least. But my room isn't that big, it's about 3.5m by 2.5m/ 11.5ft by 8ft. Will this be too much? It's already very full sounding as its not that big of a room, but the added sub would be always nice. not sure whether to hold off till a room change.
Thanks for all the replies guys, good stuff, don,t think i will be getting a sub, quite happy with the sound i,ve got, or had up until 2 hours ago as i said in another thread, the amp has went funny on me.
roblikeshismusic:Well this is a pretty intersting thread. I was thinking abut getting a sub for myself. I currently have the Mordaunt short 902i's and was looking to get the matching sub or same brand at least. But my room isn't that big, it's about 3.5m by 2.5m/ 11.5ft by 8ft. Will this be too much? It's already very full sounding as its not that big of a room, but the added sub would be always nice. not sure whether to hold off till a room change.
Assuming your room is 2.2 m high
square root(3.5 squared + 2.5 squared +2.2 squared) gives longest diagonal = 4.8
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
Assuming your room is 2.2 m high
square root(3.5 squared + 2.5 squared +2.2 squared) gives longest diagonal = 4.8
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
johnnyjazz:Aw hammill, your just showing off now
I knew that Physics A Level would come in handy.
hammill:
roblikeshismusic:Well this is a pretty intersting thread. I was thinking abut getting a sub for myself. I currently have the Mordaunt short 902i's and was looking to get the matching sub or same brand at least. But my room isn't that big, it's about 3.5m by 2.5m/ 11.5ft by 8ft. Will this be too much? It's already very full sounding as its not that big of a room, but the added sub would be always nice. not sure whether to hold off till a room change.
Assuming your room is 2.2 m high
square root(3.5 squared + 2.5 squared +2.2 squared) gives longest diagonal = 4.8
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
ok.... thanks.
roblikeshismusic:Well this is a pretty intersting thread. I was thinking abut getting a sub for myself. I currently have the Mordaunt short 902i's and was looking to get the matching sub or same brand at least. But my room isn't that big, it's about 3.5m by 2.5m/ 11.5ft by 8ft. Will this be too much? It's already very full sounding as its not that big of a room, but the added sub would be always nice. not sure whether to hold off till a room change.
Assuming your room is 2.2 m high
square root(3.5 squared + 2.5 squared +2.2 squared) gives longest diagonal = 4.8
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
ok.... thanks.
Hammill out of interest what would be the lowest possible note in a boy racer fast and furious VW golf ?.
hammill:
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
Can you expand on this a little? Is there really such a hard conenction of ability to reproduce lowest note and room size? Does it mean a note cannnot be reproduced if the whole one wavelength cannot fit inside the room? I have to do some reading on that... do you have a reference to any reading expanding this?
Waves are propagating oscillations, they are not static. It is not that you literally have to fit a string shaped as one complete sine wave in the room. Or is it?
For me a sub is essential, unelss you have a truly full-range speaker (and these normally are very expensive, so a sub is a cost efficient way of completing the range).
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
Can you expand on this a little? Is there really such a hard conenction of ability to reproduce lowest note and room size? Does it mean a note cannnot be reproduced if the whole one wavelength cannot fit inside the room? I have to do some reading on that... do you have a reference to any reading expanding this?
Waves are propagating oscillations, they are not static. It is not that you literally have to fit a string shaped as one complete sine wave in the room. Or is it?
For me a sub is essential, unelss you have a truly full-range speaker (and these normally are very expensive, so a sub is a cost efficient way of completing the range).
hammill:
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
I'd say the lowest would be 71.5Hz, taking v as 343m/s
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
I'd say the lowest would be 71.5Hz, taking v as 343m/s
AlmaataKZ:hammill:
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
Can you expand on this a little? Is there really such a hard conenction of ability to reproduce lowest note and room size? Does it mean a note cannnot be reproduced if the whole one wavelength cannot fit inside the room? I have to do some reading on that... do you have a reference to any reading expanding this?
Waves are propagating oscillations, they are not static. It is not that you literally have to fit a string shaped as one complete sine wave in the room. Or is it?
For me a sub is essential, unelss you have a truly full-range speaker (and these normally are very expensive, so a sub is a cost efficient way of completing the range).
The note would certainly be produced, and assuming your ears are working properly you would be able to hear it (as the waveform travels 'through' you). A sub provides an element of the sound that speakers cannot so it's understandable that many see the sub as a crucial part of the system.
*disclaimer* Acoustic management is very complex, and I certainly am not claiming to
know a great deal about it. But I have a grasp on the fundamental
physics behind wave propagation...
Quite simply, lower frequencies will reverberate more than the higher frequencies. The highs are more readily absorbed into the surroundings (furniture, walls, humans) causing the lows to be more prominent and quite probably mashed up in small spaces. You would easily notice this effect if listening in a very small room. Increasing the size of the room increases the area of "free space", decreasing the ratio of 'absorbent objects' to 'acoustic space' -- effectively giving the higher frequencies more room to blossom in.
Capich‚?
frequency = velocity/wave length so 300/4.8= 62.5 hz lowest possible note in your room.
Can you expand on this a little? Is there really such a hard conenction of ability to reproduce lowest note and room size? Does it mean a note cannnot be reproduced if the whole one wavelength cannot fit inside the room? I have to do some reading on that... do you have a reference to any reading expanding this?
Waves are propagating oscillations, they are not static. It is not that you literally have to fit a string shaped as one complete sine wave in the room. Or is it?
For me a sub is essential, unelss you have a truly full-range speaker (and these normally are very expensive, so a sub is a cost efficient way of completing the range).
The note would certainly be produced, and assuming your ears are working properly you would be able to hear it (as the waveform travels 'through' you). A sub provides an element of the sound that speakers cannot so it's understandable that many see the sub as a crucial part of the system.
*disclaimer* Acoustic management is very complex, and I certainly am not claiming to
know a great deal about it. But I have a grasp on the fundamental
physics behind wave propagation...
Quite simply, lower frequencies will reverberate more than the higher frequencies. The highs are more readily absorbed into the surroundings (furniture, walls, humans) causing the lows to be more prominent and quite probably mashed up in small spaces. You would easily notice this effect if listening in a very small room. Increasing the size of the room increases the area of "free space", decreasing the ratio of 'absorbent objects' to 'acoustic space' -- effectively giving the higher frequencies more room to blossom in.
Capich‚?
the_lhc:rocky66: Who cares what settings the sub should be on. Err, anyone who wants their equipment properly set up?
I understand. However define 'properly set up'. I could have my Sub on a setting that SOUNDS right to me. You may not like my settings. The point i'm trying to make is, there are no real settings, it's an individual thing. In my eyes and ears my system is correctly set-up.
I understand. However define 'properly set up'. I could have my Sub on a setting that SOUNDS right to me. You may not like my settings. The point i'm trying to make is, there are no real settings, it's an individual thing. In my eyes and ears my system is correctly set-up.
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