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Why not 5 stars?

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TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
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Mains conditioners.
British Telecoms use mains conditioners to reduce mains interference. In fact they manufacture their own. None such model is the BT MCU5A/125.
Just saying that if mains does not impact sensitive electronic equipment they would not bother as it’s nothing but a cost to them.
A Hifi is nothing if it’s not a sensitive piece of electrical engineering. Yes they should be able to handle noise on the mains, but there is a limit to everything. Not all Hifi is made equal and we don’t all have clean mains rings. My old subwoofer in my previous house used to pick up the 60hz mains hum. It was subtle but there and quite common. Maybe a mains conditioner would have helped , who knows. I don’t as I didn’t bother trying, but I’m going to keep my mind open to the idea.
With that said I would Only entertain the idea if It was cheap.
Your old sub had a fault. Filtering isn’t about removing hum, it’s about removing interference, switching noises, stuff like that. If you don’t hear such things you have nothing that needs to be cured. It’s not about being open minded, it’s about knowledge. If you have an amp that clicks and pops all the time I would try substituting that before trying anything else.
 

TrevC

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Jun 12, 2013
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Well typically there's some good advice.... and then there's somebody that knows better.. :)
I try to make sure they coincide. Not that anyone necessarily believes what I say of course. Experience counts for nothing and nonsense is often revered as a great truth.
 

Sliced Bread

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2010
337
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18,895
Your old sub had a fault. Filtering isn’t about removing hum, it’s about removing interference, switching noises, stuff like that. If you don’t hear such things you have nothing that needs to be cured. It’s not about being open minded, it’s about knowledge. If you have an amp that clicks and pops all the time I would try substituting that before trying anything else.
No afraid not. It was fine when I moved.
Also directly on the other side of the wall was the kitchen . If you turn the fridge off and on the intensity of the hum changed.
In terms of knowledge, British Telecom have some too. :)
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
322
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No afraid not. It was fine when I moved.
Also directly on the other side of the wall was the kitchen . If you turn the fridge off and on the intensity of the hum changed.
In terms of knowledge, British Telecom have some too. :)
Intriguing. Was the hum from the speaker or the transformer?
 

Sliced Bread

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2010
337
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18,895
Intriguing. Was the hum from the speaker or the transformer?
From the speaker :(, or at least it sounded like it was coming from the speaker

It’s not entirely uncommon. Here are some possible solutions:
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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I'd like to add my tuppence worth how inconsistent these reviews are. I've just purchased a used Exposure CD 2010. Sounds great with the Leema Pulse MKI and PMCs.
I've read WHFI review of the newer CD 2010S2, written in 2014. It says: "A criticism of the original 2010S was its over-enthusiastic treble."
As I've got a substantial archive of WHFI mags from 2004, I turned up the original review of the CD 2010S from May 2005. The review stated, "Great player - fabulous treble, great dynamics and a weighty bottom end." How can it have high praise in earlier mags then it's strength turns into a criticism?
I know no-one should take these reviews as gospel, but this is clear faux pas. Is there any research carried out before they are written?
 
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rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
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I'd like to add my tuppence worth how inconsistent these reviews are. I've just purchased a used Exposure CD 2010. Sounds great with the Leema Pulse MKI and PMCs.
I've read WHFI review of the newer CD 2010S2, written in 2014. It says: "A criticism of the original 2010S was its over-enthusiastic treble."
As I've got a substantial archive of WHFI mags from 2004, I turned up the original review of the CD 2010S from May 2005. The review stated, "Great player - fabulous treble, great dynamics and a weighty bottom end." How can it have high praise in earlier mags then it's strength turns into a criticism?
I know no-one should take these reviews as gospel, but this is clear faux pas. Is there any research carried out before they are written?
I remember reading their Musical Fidelity M1 dac 5 star review, but then another DAC came along (Audiolab or Arcam iirc) and that got 5 stars, and the MF dropped to 3 stars. There were other DACs in that price range in the buying guide, and they all kept their rating - so it wasn't that the newcommer was better, but the MF got worse lol.

Also, Trev C trolling the forums being dead wrong is a tradition since the 1.0 forums, don't mind him :)
 

scene

Moderator
Sep 25, 2008
778
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Trouble is listening to music is quite personal, and what may sound like fabulous treble to one reviewer will sound like too much treble to another; great separation for one, overly clinical for another; etc. You get my drift. And if it's a comparative test, then how one device sounds can impact your view of another. I tend to take all reviews with a pinch of salt and try to read different reviews, where possible. At the end of the day, it's going to be what you like...
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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I remember reading their Musical Fidelity M1 dac 5 star review, but then another DAC came along (Audiolab or Arcam iirc) and that got 5 stars, and the MF dropped to 3 stars. There were other DACs in that price range in the buying guide, and they all kept their rating - so it wasn't that the newcommer was better, but the MF got worse lol.

Also, Trev C trolling the forums being dead wrong is a tradition since the 1.0 forums, don't mind him :)
Trouble is listening to music is quite personal, and what may sound like fabulous treble to one reviewer will sound like too much treble to another; great separation for one, overly clinical for another; etc. You get my drift. And if it's a comparative test, then how one device sounds can impact your view of another. I tend to take all reviews with a pinch of salt and try to read different reviews, where possible. At the end of the day, it's going to be what you like...
Sorry, but you guys don't get what I'm saying. "A criticism of the original 2010S was its over-enthusiastic treble." That leads me to believe that was always a criticism from day one. In fact they said it bettered the Cyrus 6 in that respect.
I understand how components lose stars over the years but the Exposure CD 2010s didn't.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
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Sorry, but you guys don't get what I'm saying. "A criticism of the original 2010S was its over-enthusiastic treble." That leads me to believe that was always a criticism from day one. In fact they said it bettered the Cyrus 6 in that respect.
I understand how components lose stars over the years but the Exposure CD 2010s didn't.
I did get what you were saying, I just gave another example where one product lost 2 stars just like that, in less than a year I believe, because of motivations that are dubious imo. Yes, the Exposure didn't lose stars, but they were inconsistent with their previous evaluation - which screams bias that's not based purely on audio quality, if you ask me.
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
322
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19,070
I remember reading their Musical Fidelity M1 dac 5 star review, but then another DAC came along (Audiolab or Arcam iirc) and that got 5 stars, and the MF dropped to 3 stars. There were other DACs in that price range in the buying guide, and they all kept their rating - so it wasn't that the newcommer was better, but the MF got worse lol.

Also, Trev C giving sound advice is a tradition since the 1.0 forums, don't mind him :)
Fixed.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
369
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However, I really appreciate that you changed the tune from "all amplifiers sound the same" to "almost the same" and adding qualifications, like "if they're similarly built" or are "decently built", "built to spec" etc.
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
322
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19,070
However, I really appreciate that you changed the tune from "all amplifiers sound the same" to "almost the same" and adding qualifications, like "if they're similarly built" or are "decently built", "built to spec" etc.
I never said they all sound the same, I used the word similar. Except for valve amplifiers, they sound worse.
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
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I think would bet money that you haven't tried different leads or a mains conditioner.
Of course I haven't, because I have technical knowledge acquired over my working life that informs me that no change in performance is possible. The mains only has to be delivered to the unit, how it arrives there makes no difference. It's like me asking you to put your finger on an ice cube to see if it's cold. You already know it is.
In a nutshell, your bet is stupid.
 
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Surly Sid

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2020
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Of course I haven't, because I have technical knowledge acquired over my working life that informs me that no change in performance is possible. The mains only has to be delivered to the unit, how it arrives there makes no difference. It's like me asking you to put your finger on an ice cube to see if it's cold. You already know it is.
In a nutshell, your bet is stupid.
I always marvel at how some people can claim something with such certainty, and yet be so wrong...
 
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shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
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I always marvel at how some people can claim something with such certainty, and yet be so wrong...
Hi,
There is a forum where people believe cables make a difference (mains, speaker, interconnect), because the majority hear the difference (subjectively) - or maybe cables are being sold by the subjectivist. If fuses or cable lifters are discussed, then the person hearing a difference is told they are imagining it etc.

On another forum, subjectivity is nigh on enforced, and those extremely rude breaking the AUP are subjectivists, and it goes unchallenged.

Subjectivity states that if someone hears a difference, then it must be true, yet some subjectivists are ridiculed by other subjectivists, as it is claimed without evidence by subjectivists, that people cannot hear the differences.

On another forum, it is claimed that isolating a digital switch (ethernet) changes the sound.

Again, on another forum, it is claimed that human hearing is so good, that in a specific case, measuring equipment is not as good (no evidence provided).

Subjectivists are constantly being hypocritical, but with objectivism, it is based on science and engineering.

Subjectivists are constantly claiming science does not know it all, yet they never take a test to prove a cable makes a difference. The claim is that the test is flawed. Yet, if they knew that they would get 100%, they would take the test no problem.

Hifi is full of folklore, and someone hearing something is an opinion, and not a fact that there is a difference. If there was any evidence provided by the subjectivists, then there would be no issue. Without evidence, then it is just an opinion.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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