Why no Harbeth review on WHF?

[BigH]

Thanks. Not your normal sort of dealer, very limited range of gear.

Depends what you call 'normal'. They support 20 manufacturers and they're not the commonest but they're very good and I bet you could set up some cracking combos and make some good comparisons (ATC v PMC v Harbeth would be fun).

Maybe but what cd player Naim or Rega? No Marantz, Musical Fid, Audiolab, Arcam etc.

You are moving into a different league and thinking and presentation, with Harbeth, for starters its home audition, not mass market, there will be an element of sophistication, all very laid back way of doing things. Mass market and marketing, does not fit well in this sanario.

Thats what we are saying.

But makes it difficult to compare different makes. Having just done 2 rather unsatisfactory auditions I have come to the conclusion that home demos are the only way to really test gear.

 

[relocated]

I wonder if it could have anything to do with the recent [ongoing] challenge laid down by the owner of Harbeth?

The one that challenges the notion that amplifiers differ to such an extent that they are clearly audible. Prize for the challenge is a rather nice pair of speakers, I believe. I think they remain unclaimed.

:?

There were no takers, which says a lot about the audiophile world.

No, it says alot about Harbeth's distribution and consequent lack of sales, allied to the current market.

I suppose you have the sales figures to hand? or are you just making it up?

What on earth has this comment to do with no 'golden eared' individual taking up the challenge to win a pair of Harbeth speakers.

I'm surprised a WHF reviewer didn't win the pair :O and then they could have reviewed them for their readers. Strange that, reviewers that can differentiate between usb and hdmi cables :shame: but couldn't tell the difference between amplifiers to win speakers. :?

 

[krolikgena]

Can someone share experience with Harbeth speakers? Harbeth vs others?

i guess they are not chosen for impressive soundstage and imaging? :?

 

[BigH]

Found this earlier post: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/speaker-shoot-out-harbeth-p3esr-vs-proac-tablette-anniversary

 

[batonwielder]

I used to own a pair of Harbeth Compact 7es3's.

What people described as "natural" came across to me as loose, dark, and rolled-off. In the end, we parted ways, because it did not sound like real music to me. Important to note that I've tried many positioning, cabling, amplications, and sources to overcome the shortcomings.

If you are looking for a pair of inoffensive monitors that will wow you with beautiful cabinetry and old-school styling, these are it. Ultimately, I decided their sound is not worth the money.

Among the brands that I've recently auditioned, Proac just seems to be in a different league. I couldn't understand the hype around KEF LS50 or PMC Twenty Series as they were compromised in one way or another.

I listen to mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, solo) and jazz.

 

[CnoEvil]

I used to own a pair of Harbeth Compact 7es3's.

What people described as "natural" came across to me as loose, dark, and rolled-off. In the end, we parted ways, because it did not sound like real music to me. Important to note that I've tried many positioning, cabling, amplications, and sources to overcome the shortcomings.

If you are looking for a pair of inoffensive monitors that will wow you with beautiful cabinetry and old-school styling, these are it. Ultimately, I decided their sound is not worth the money.

Among the brands that I've recently auditioned, Proac just seems to be in a different league. I couldn't understand the hype around KEF LS50 or PMC Twenty Series as they were compromised in one way or another.

I listen to mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, solo) and jazz.

When assessing an alternative, I think it is absolutely vital to hear the opposing POV, so I think your thoughts are crucially important to bring perspective to the argument.

 

[marou]

Harbeth P3SERs are wonderful speakers but not to everyone's taste obviously. Versatile but a bit lacking in bass if that's your preference. Their great advantage is that being sealed box, positioning isn't critical.

 

[Macspur]

I used to own a pair of Harbeth Compact 7es3's.

What people described as "natural" came across to me as loose, dark, and rolled-off. In the end, we parted ways, because it did not sound like real music to me. Important to note that I've tried many positioning, cabling, amplications, and sources to overcome the shortcomings.

If you are looking for a pair of inoffensive monitors that will wow you with beautiful cabinetry and old-school styling, these are it. Ultimately, I decided their sound is not worth the money.

Among the brands that I've recently auditioned, Proac just seems to be in a different league. I couldn't understand the hype around KEF LS50 or PMC Twenty Series as they were compromised in one way or another.

I listen to mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, solo) and jazz.

Did you manage to hear the SHL5's or M30.1? I didn't like the Compact7 myself, but the others are imo far better.

Mac

 

[edplaysdrums42]

I've got some P3ESR's and i love them! Great little speakers. I had some Compact 7's before but couldnt get them to work in my room. Not the last word in bass but perfect for me. Home demo is a must as always

Cheers, Ed

 

[BigH]

I used to own a pair of Harbeth Compact 7es3's.

What people described as "natural" came across to me as loose, dark, and rolled-off. In the end, we parted ways, because it did not sound like real music to me. Important to note that I've tried many positioning, cabling, amplications, and sources to overcome the shortcomings.

If you are looking for a pair of inoffensive monitors that will wow you with beautiful cabinetry and old-school styling, these are it. Ultimately, I decided their sound is not worth the money.

Among the brands that I've recently auditioned, Proac just seems to be in a different league. I couldn't understand the hype around KEF LS50 or PMC Twenty Series as they were compromised in one way or another.

I listen to mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, solo) and jazz.

Yes the KEF LS50s were not what I expected, many said they were neutral, well if that is neatral I don't know what warm is. I would say the DB1is were more neutral than the Kefs. Could not hear the Proacs.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes the KEF LS50s were not what I expected, many said they were neutral, well if that is neatral I don't know what warm is. I would say the DB1is were more neutral than the Kefs. Could not hear the Proacs.

This pin-points the problem of "what constitutes neutral", and indeed peoples' perception of what it actually is.

It is quite possible the Kefs were reflecting the character of the amp / source that they were connected to; which means it's possible that it is these components that were not neutral, or perhaps not controlling them properly.

I am not defending the Kefs per se, but pointing out the minefield that surrounds getting to the heart of what neutrality is, and which components could be responsible for the lack of it......and that can even be speaker positioning or room acoustics.

 

[Rimse]

well not bad speakers,if you don't pay attention to look and plastic middbass driver holding materiel .For example shl5 at normal listening levels has bigger bass scale than dynaudio standmounts.Punch and bass impact can be manipulated using interconnect from the source to amp.Atlas titan fits nice here.Well what else.To avoid shrieking voices SHL has a dip,this very evident after listening dyns for longer time.The highs are not so airy like on dyns,but nice and sounds more prominent compared to dyns,this results that upper midrange sounds cleaner and speakers can be used at low listening levels..Of coursce it easy tell diffrencies between amps when you see what is connected,otherwise you have to own golden ears :rofl:

 

[relocated]

Yes the KEF LS50s were not what I expected, many said they were neutral, well if that is neatral I don't know what warm is. I would say the DB1is were more neutral than the Kefs. Could not hear the Proacs.

This pin-points the problem of "what constitutes neutral", and indeed peoples' perception of what it actually is.

It is quite possible the Kefs were reflecting the character of the amp / source that they were connected to; which means it's possible that it is these components that were not neutral, or perhaps not controlling them properly.

I am not defending the Kefs per se, but pointing out the minefield that surrounds getting to the heart of what neutrality is, and which components could be responsible for the lack of it......and that can even be speaker positioning or room acoustics.

Which beggars the question as to why decent loudspeaker companies do not provide proper active versions of their 'neutral' speakers. Matched amps to show off their expertise and do away with the angst of owners trying to find the right amp and speaker cable.

Surely it can't be that difficult for them given how amazing they think their products are. A definitive sound presented by the manufacturer for passive lovers to try to emulate with their multitude of amplifier and cable choices.

 

[Rimse]

well US is big market .People from abroad ,especially where stereo equipment choices are limited or not reviewed in native language, read reviews in stereophile and what hi-fi soundstage etc.. I writte comments from outside UK 8) But your nick name reminds me cartoon crocodile gena ,very funny :rofl:

 

[chebby]

Which beggars the question as to why decent loudspeaker companies do not provide proper active versions of their 'neutral' speakers. Matched amps to show off their expertise and do away with the angst of owners trying to find the right amp and speaker cable.

Surely it can't be that difficult for them given how amazing they think their products are.

If only there were a British company who made traditionally finished, compact, two-way, active monitors...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yes the KEF LS50s were not what I expected, many said they were neutral, well if that is neatral I don't know what warm is. I would say the DB1is were more neutral than the Kefs. Could not hear the Proacs.

This pin-points the problem of "what constitutes neutral", and indeed peoples' perception of what it actually is.

It is quite possible the Kefs were reflecting the character of the amp / source that they were connected to; which means it's possible that it is these components that were not neutral, or perhaps not controlling them properly.

I am not defending the Kefs per se, but pointing out the minefield that surrounds getting to the heart of what neutrality is, and which components could be responsible for the lack of it......and that can even be speaker positioning or room acoustics.

Which beggars the question as to why decent loudspeaker companies do not provide proper active versions of their 'neutral' speakers. Matched amps to show off their expertise and do away with the angst of owners trying to find the right amp and speaker cable.

Surely it can't be that difficult for them given how amazing they think their products are. A definitive sound presented by the manufacturer for passive lovers to try to emulate with their multitude of amplifier and cable choices.

Why should they? There's not a world of difference between good actives and good passives, plus you're not tied into a dac and amplifier that may not, in the end, get the best out of the speaker.

Have you heard Magnepan, Martin Logan and the Neat Elite range? They're stunning speakers, irrespective of what type of crossover they use..

 

[BigH]

Yes the KEF LS50s were not what I expected, many said they were neutral, well if that is neatral I don't know what warm is. I would say the DB1is were more neutral than the Kefs. Could not hear the Proacs.

This pin-points the problem of "what constitutes neutral", and indeed peoples' perception of what it actually is.

It is quite possible the Kefs were reflecting the character of the amp / source that they were connected to; which means it's possible that it is these components that were not neutral, or perhaps not controlling them properly.

I am not defending the Kefs per se, but pointing out the minefield that surrounds getting to the heart of what neutrality is, and which components could be responsible for the lack of it......and that can even be speaker positioning or room acoustics.

I'm not saying they were bad, in fact they are the best I have heard so far out of 4. The amps were Audiolab 8200 and Musical Fidelity M3i. After the PMC DB1s they sounded pretty warm. The room was about 4.5m square and fairly bare, carpet and 2 seater sofa so not a warm room by any means.

As for amps apart from the MF was more powerful I would have a job telling them apart, same for the cd players which were Audiol;ab 8200 and MF M3. The MF look much better nad seemed better built and finished, but should be as cost more, the Audiolab seemed very basic both cd and amp. None of the remotes on Rega, MF and Audiolab worked very well.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm not saying they were bad, in fact they are the best I have heard so far out of 4. The amps were Audiolab 8200 and Musical Fidelity M3i. After the PMC DB1s they sounded pretty warm. The room was about 4.5m square and fairly bare, carpet and 2 seater sofa so not a warm room by any means.

As for amps apart from the MF was more powerful I would have a job telling them apart, same for the cd players which were Audiol;ab 8200 and MF M3. The MF look much better nad seemed better built and finished, but should be as cost more, the Audiolab seemed very basic both cd and amp. None of the remotes on Rega, MF and Audiolab worked very well.

My comment was nothing more than highlighting the difficulty of defining neutral, as there are so many variables, which includes subjectivity. It's such a nebulous thing to grasp, that it is easier imo, to concentrate on whether you like the sound, or not.

 

[BenLaw]

I'm not saying they were bad, in fact they are the best I have heard so far out of 4. The amps were Audiolab 8200 and Musical Fidelity M3i. After the PMC DB1s they sounded pretty warm. The room was about 4.5m square and fairly bare, carpet and 2 seater sofa so not a warm room by any means.

As for amps apart from the MF was more powerful I would have a job telling them apart, same for the cd players which were Audiol;ab 8200 and MF M3. The MF look much better nad seemed better built and finished, but should be as cost more, the Audiolab seemed very basic both cd and amp. None of the remotes on Rega, MF and Audiolab worked very well.

My comment was nothing more than highlighting the difficulty of defining neutral, as there are so many variables, which includes subjectivity. It's such a nebulous thing to grasp, that it is easier imo, to concentrate on whether you like the sound, or not.

People may have their own different subjective ideas of neutral, but it's a helluva lot less nebulous (and meaningless) than 'musical'.

 

[CnoEvil]

People may have their own different subjective ideas of neutral, but it's a helluva lot less nebulous (and meaningless) than 'musical'.

On a personal level, I'm not sure I agree........I know musical when I hear it, but I'm not sure I can say the same for neutral....except when the two are aligned, and even that isn't easy to tell.

 

[Craig M.]

Why should they? There's not a world of difference between good actives and good passives

Yours and my hearing must be very different. I've found the difference to be quite pronounced.

 

[Electro]

Why should they? There's not a world of difference between good actives and good passives

Yours and my hearing must be very different. I've found the difference to be quite pronounced.

A bit off topic but here is PMC's take on active and passive speakers .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3A4UMh1AOHw

 

[batonwielder]

I used to own a pair of Harbeth Compact 7es3's.

What people described as "natural" came across to me as loose, dark, and rolled-off. In the end, we parted ways, because it did not sound like real music to me. Important to note that I've tried many positioning, cabling, amplications, and sources to overcome the shortcomings.

If you are looking for a pair of inoffensive monitors that will wow you with beautiful cabinetry and old-school styling, these are it. Ultimately, I decided their sound is not worth the money.

Among the brands that I've recently auditioned, Proac just seems to be in a different league. I couldn't understand the hype around KEF LS50 or PMC Twenty Series as they were compromised in one way or another.

I listen to mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, solo) and jazz.

Did you manage to hear the SHL5's or M30.1? I didn't like the Compact7 myself, but the others are imo far better.

Mac

Yes, I've listened to the entire range. I thought the smaller P3's are actually better than the C7's when demoed at home. The upper range models are serious money that just cannot be justified on my own terms. Some people might say the M30's are best bang for the buck. To me, it's just very expensive.

 

[nopiano]

If only there were a British company who made traditionally finished, compact, two-way, active monitors...

:rofl:

Yea, if only. [I'm sure someone else will twig soon, chebby!]

 

[Craig M.]

Why should they? There's not a world of difference between good actives and good passives

Yours and my hearing must be very different. I've found the difference to be quite pronounced.

A bit off topic but here is PMC's take on active and passive speakers .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3A4UMh1AOHw

Thanks for posting, I haven't seen that before.