Whether your preference for fine sounding audio lays with digital or vinyl, the mass public will never go back to vinyl because of the convenience of digital. Unfortunately, neither did they, or will they adopt SACD, DVD-Audio and JVC's excellent XRCD's. Whatever your preference, as audiophiles we have a limited choice of music available to us which is obviously dictated by what the mass public are interested in.
pete321:Whether your preference for fine sounding audio lays with digital or vinyl, the mass public will never go back to vinyl because of the convenience of digital.
Funny you should say that because current pressing plants cant keep up with public demand with new plants opening because of the demand. On top of that, turntables are selling like hot cakes.
Funny you should say that because current pressing plants cant keep up with public demand with new plants opening because of the demand. On top of that, turntables are selling like hot cakes.
chebby
Well-known member
pete321:....as audiophiles we have a limited choice of music available to us which is obviously dictated by what the mass public are interested in.
That would be £3 discounted DVDs from the supermarket, illegal 32k MP3 downloads on a cheap phone, £20 PC speakers from Tesco and a 25 year old alarm clock radio barely tuned to some station with 'Gold' in it's name and some £1.99 compilation CDs bought from a garage (to drown out the kids) with titles like... "The only Smooth Classics you'll Ever Need Vol 4", or... "100 Rock & Roll greats on Panpipes"
That would be £3 discounted DVDs from the supermarket, illegal 32k MP3 downloads on a cheap phone, £20 PC speakers from Tesco and a 25 year old alarm clock radio barely tuned to some station with 'Gold' in it's name and some £1.99 compilation CDs bought from a garage (to drown out the kids) with titles like... "The only Smooth Classics you'll Ever Need Vol 4", or... "100 Rock & Roll greats on Panpipes"
pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
Charlie Jefferson
Well-known member
chebby:
pete321:....as audiophiles we have a limited choice of music available to us which is obviously dictated by what the mass public are interested in.
That would be £3 discounted DVDs from the supermarket, illegal 32k MP3 downloads on a cheap phone, £20 PC speakers from Tesco and a 25 year old alarm clock radio barely tuned to some station with 'Gold' in it's name and some £1.99 compilation CDs bought from a garage (to drown out the kids) with titles like... "The only Smooth Classics you'll Ever Need Vol 4", or... "100 Rock & Roll greats on Panpipes"
Nicely put, Sir Cheb. I suspect you've just delineated the listening habits of most of my school's populace and parents. Of course, I wouldn't take such an elitist stance. At least not in public.
pete321:....as audiophiles we have a limited choice of music available to us which is obviously dictated by what the mass public are interested in.
That would be £3 discounted DVDs from the supermarket, illegal 32k MP3 downloads on a cheap phone, £20 PC speakers from Tesco and a 25 year old alarm clock radio barely tuned to some station with 'Gold' in it's name and some £1.99 compilation CDs bought from a garage (to drown out the kids) with titles like... "The only Smooth Classics you'll Ever Need Vol 4", or... "100 Rock & Roll greats on Panpipes"
Nicely put, Sir Cheb. I suspect you've just delineated the listening habits of most of my school's populace and parents. Of course, I wouldn't take such an elitist stance. At least not in public.
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.As previously noted, these are cheap decks that people are using to digitise their old albums - in no way is it a return to the LP by audiophiles.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.As previously noted, these are cheap decks that people are using to digitise their old albums - in no way is it a return to the LP by audiophiles.
chebby:
hifikrazy:JoelSim:Cyrus, Naim, Roksan...peas in a pod. All very digital sounding.Can't agree with that generalisation. I went from Cyrus CD6s to Rega Apollo (as you can see, I'm rather guided by WHF award winners) and now to Naim CD5XS. Moving from Cyrus to Rega was not much of an upgrade and the sound was different rather than clearly superior. However, moving from the Rega to the Naim revealed how digital sounding the Rega was. The Naim sounds so much more natural and musical. Now I'm not sure if comparing the Naim to a dCS Puccini will show that my Naim is suffering from a bad bout of digititis, but from what I can hear, the Naim is certainly not "very digital sounding".
Why did you do it?!
You shouldn't give in to Joel bait
You may as well just get a calculator, attach it to your amp, and stand there pressing 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 for a few hours. It would of course sound better if the calculator had a Russ Andrews Crystal Batterypack and the LCD screen was switched off.
hifikrazy:JoelSim:Cyrus, Naim, Roksan...peas in a pod. All very digital sounding.Can't agree with that generalisation. I went from Cyrus CD6s to Rega Apollo (as you can see, I'm rather guided by WHF award winners) and now to Naim CD5XS. Moving from Cyrus to Rega was not much of an upgrade and the sound was different rather than clearly superior. However, moving from the Rega to the Naim revealed how digital sounding the Rega was. The Naim sounds so much more natural and musical. Now I'm not sure if comparing the Naim to a dCS Puccini will show that my Naim is suffering from a bad bout of digititis, but from what I can hear, the Naim is certainly not "very digital sounding".
Why did you do it?!
You shouldn't give in to Joel bait
You may as well just get a calculator, attach it to your amp, and stand there pressing 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 for a few hours. It would of course sound better if the calculator had a Russ Andrews Crystal Batterypack and the LCD screen was switched off.
chebby
Well-known member
JoelSim:You may as well just get a calculator, attach it to your amp, and stand there pressing 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 for a few hours. It would of course sound better if the calculator had a Russ Andrews Crystal Batterypack and the LCD screen was switched off.
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/CD-players-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!245/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Preamps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!504/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Power-amps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!490/
http://whathifi.com/Review/Naim-Uniti!38100/
Yes Joel. They can never seem to get it right!
You mentioned Roksan too...
http://whathifi.com/Search/Review/roksan/
And Cyrus...
http://whathifi.com/Search/Review/cyrus/
How can they have the bare-faced cheek to trade with such rubbish eh?
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/CD-players-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!245/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Preamps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!504/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Power-amps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!490/
http://whathifi.com/Review/Naim-Uniti!38100/
Yes Joel. They can never seem to get it right!
You mentioned Roksan too...
http://whathifi.com/Search/Review/roksan/
And Cyrus...
http://whathifi.com/Search/Review/cyrus/
How can they have the bare-faced cheek to trade with such rubbish eh?
hammill:shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.As previously noted, these are cheap decks that people are using to digitise their old albums - in no way is it a return to the LP by audiophiles.
Natch (cheers Clare!) but not for every sale and the fact pressing plants cant keep up with demand etc. means there is a market out their. I'm sure CD's will cease to stop selling in the near future but theres no getting over the fact vinyl is on an upward trend.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.As previously noted, these are cheap decks that people are using to digitise their old albums - in no way is it a return to the LP by audiophiles.
Natch (cheers Clare!) but not for every sale and the fact pressing plants cant keep up with demand etc. means there is a market out their. I'm sure CD's will cease to stop selling in the near future but theres no getting over the fact vinyl is on an upward trend.
chebby:
JoelSim:You may as well just get a calculator, attach it to your amp, and stand there pressing 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 for a few hours. It would of course sound better if the calculator had a Russ Andrews Crystal Batterypack and the LCD screen was switched off.
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/CD-players-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!245/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Preamps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!504/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Power-amps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!490/
http://whathifi.com/Review/Naim-Uniti!38100/
Yes Joel. They can never seem to get it right!
I really didn't like the reference Naim system at WHF Towers. Neither did the guys on the BQ panel. Very uninvolving and matter of fact rather than musical.
JoelSim:You may as well just get a calculator, attach it to your amp, and stand there pressing 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 for a few hours. It would of course sound better if the calculator had a Russ Andrews Crystal Batterypack and the LCD screen was switched off.
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/CD-players-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!245/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Preamps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!504/
http://whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Power-amps-Reviews/Rule-Brand-Naim!490/
http://whathifi.com/Review/Naim-Uniti!38100/
Yes Joel. They can never seem to get it right!
I really didn't like the reference Naim system at WHF Towers. Neither did the guys on the BQ panel. Very uninvolving and matter of fact rather than musical.
chebby
Well-known member
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Tarquinh:pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
pete321:Tarquinh:pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
pete321:
CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Your getting warmer.
CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Your getting warmer.
unfocused
Well-known member
According to the BPI total vinyl sales for the UK in 2009 were 219,000 albums and in 2008 were 209,000 albums. In both years that represents 0.2% of music sales. Vinyl has become a fashion statement for a lot of cool and trendy types. There is no mass market resurgence of vinyl records.
idc
Well-known member
Tarquinh:pete321:Tarquinh:pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
idc:Tarquinh:pete321:Tarquinh:pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
Are they Joe Public, though? According to 321, they're not. What is going on?? What does he know that we don't? I'm beginning to get worried.
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
Are they Joe Public, though? According to 321, they're not. What is going on?? What does he know that we don't? I'm beginning to get worried.
idc:Tarquinh:pete321:Tarquinh:pete321:
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
Are they Joe Public, though? According to 321, they're not. What is going on?? What does he know that we don't? I'm beginning to get worried.
shooter69:pete321:.
Give Clare Newsome's blog, The Industry insider 'Vinyl turns tables as decks outsell CD players' a read.
But do you honestly believe it's Joe Public buying them? CD players don't sell anymore because everything's downloaded or ripped on a PC.
Well, if it isn't Joe Public, who is it? Three-legged creatures from Andromeda?
Perhaps, if they're not as advanced as us on planet Earth.
Full marks for the excellent riposte, but who is buying the turntables then?
People buying USB turntables for £100 or so out of Currys/PC World/Comet/Argos to import their vinyl collection onto their PC.
Are they Joe Public, though? According to 321, they're not. What is going on?? What does he know that we don't? I'm beginning to get worried.
idc
Well-known member
I think that Pete321 is wrong, it is Joe Public buying them. But it is the last hurrah for vinyl before it sinks back into obscurity, the preserve of musty smelling men with beards and few friends.....IMHO.
chebby
Well-known member
idc:But it is the last hurrah for vinyl before it sinks back into obscurity, the preserve of musty smelling men with beards and few friends.....IMHO.
You'll have a hard time getting Clare into that demographic. (She loves her LPs.)
You'll have a hard time getting Clare into that demographic. (She loves her LPs.)
idc
Well-known member
chebby:
idc:But it is the last hurrah for vinyl before it sinks back into obscurity, the preserve of musty smelling men with beards and few friends.....IMHO.
You'll have a hard time getting Clare into that demographic. (She loves her LPs.)
Anthing is possible.....
idc:But it is the last hurrah for vinyl before it sinks back into obscurity, the preserve of musty smelling men with beards and few friends.....IMHO.
You'll have a hard time getting Clare into that demographic. (She loves her LPs.)
Anthing is possible.....
pete321:
You missed the bit about the Sony BDP-S370 (£100) which I'm using in the interim to play SACD's from, I suspect the DSD sound from that would embarrass a lot of more expensive turntables.
Not at all mate, far from it in fact, but you need to compare like with like here no? Most DVD players have been multi-format from day one, with DVD and CD. Then various enhancements to the functionality expanded their capabilities. So, I'd suggest it's a slightly unfair comparison on the face of it to take a specially arranged DSD stream to an AV amp that can decode the signal and thereon to you speakers in multichannel surround.
So I suggest two things:-
i) play a bog standard CD through it
ii) play the SACD of Genesis "A Trick of The Tail" through your Sony player. The original UK LP on the Dual will kick it's butt every time. If only because the playing fields are levelled by both then but in the latter case, the handicap system means the sheer **** handed treatment of the Genesis CD which ruined the deal for many gives the Dual a better chance with a first pressing on vinyl. Only one winner!
pete321:
My cousin has a £1000+ turntable and I must admit I can't see the appeal, I'm sure that if I connected a £1000 CD player to his system and played the same album on CD I prefer the CD. All told I think we just have to accept that people have different sonic preferences, there are some that want a warm sound, others like me crave detail. Yes detail can lead to some recording sounding harsh and careful matching is needed, but when it's right it just gives so much more (IMO of course).
And you were doing fine until you fell into the old "vinyl is warm and doesn't do detail".
Gone are the days of warm and fuzzy on record. There are tons of cartridges out there that'll give you all the detail you want. The Audio Technica AT440MLa being such a beast, £125 and plugged onto a Rega P3 will sound more CD player than vinyl. I should know, I have one and it delivers detail in spades. I precisely wanted that as the "warm and fuzzies" is not what I want on listening.
By an odd coincidence though, my Marantz CDP is more analogue sounding. Detailed, but with none of the harshness typically blamed on CD once upon a time. Married up with the right recordings, which have been sympathetically mastered on CD, it's hard to tell the difference from one to the other.
You missed the bit about the Sony BDP-S370 (£100) which I'm using in the interim to play SACD's from, I suspect the DSD sound from that would embarrass a lot of more expensive turntables.
Not at all mate, far from it in fact, but you need to compare like with like here no? Most DVD players have been multi-format from day one, with DVD and CD. Then various enhancements to the functionality expanded their capabilities. So, I'd suggest it's a slightly unfair comparison on the face of it to take a specially arranged DSD stream to an AV amp that can decode the signal and thereon to you speakers in multichannel surround.
So I suggest two things:-
i) play a bog standard CD through it
ii) play the SACD of Genesis "A Trick of The Tail" through your Sony player. The original UK LP on the Dual will kick it's butt every time. If only because the playing fields are levelled by both then but in the latter case, the handicap system means the sheer **** handed treatment of the Genesis CD which ruined the deal for many gives the Dual a better chance with a first pressing on vinyl. Only one winner!
pete321:
My cousin has a £1000+ turntable and I must admit I can't see the appeal, I'm sure that if I connected a £1000 CD player to his system and played the same album on CD I prefer the CD. All told I think we just have to accept that people have different sonic preferences, there are some that want a warm sound, others like me crave detail. Yes detail can lead to some recording sounding harsh and careful matching is needed, but when it's right it just gives so much more (IMO of course).
And you were doing fine until you fell into the old "vinyl is warm and doesn't do detail".
Gone are the days of warm and fuzzy on record. There are tons of cartridges out there that'll give you all the detail you want. The Audio Technica AT440MLa being such a beast, £125 and plugged onto a Rega P3 will sound more CD player than vinyl. I should know, I have one and it delivers detail in spades. I precisely wanted that as the "warm and fuzzies" is not what I want on listening.
By an odd coincidence though, my Marantz CDP is more analogue sounding. Detailed, but with none of the harshness typically blamed on CD once upon a time. Married up with the right recordings, which have been sympathetically mastered on CD, it's hard to tell the difference from one to the other.
unfocused:
According to the BPI total vinyl sales for the UK in 2009 were 219,000 albums and in 2008 were 209,000 albums. In both years that represents 0.2% of music sales. Vinyl has become a fashion statement for a lot of cool and trendy types. There is no mass market resurgence of vinyl records.
This is pretty much it for the truth of new LP sales currently. LPs now costing £18+ are not uncommon in the shops, vinyl quality, even from the top end audiophile vinyl companies, can be patchy.
However, there is a massive amount of good quality used vinyl out there in shops, online, all over the place and often in pristine quality. Personally, I'm delighted; vinyl is where music was always at for me. The day the album sleeve was reduced to a booklet small enough to fit in a jewel case was the day we started to lose something from the core of the whole experience. From tactile and artistic down to mere commodity in less than 20 years.
If those 219,000 sales help to start a resurgence in the appreciation for all of that, it's 219,000 in the right direction.
According to the BPI total vinyl sales for the UK in 2009 were 219,000 albums and in 2008 were 209,000 albums. In both years that represents 0.2% of music sales. Vinyl has become a fashion statement for a lot of cool and trendy types. There is no mass market resurgence of vinyl records.
This is pretty much it for the truth of new LP sales currently. LPs now costing £18+ are not uncommon in the shops, vinyl quality, even from the top end audiophile vinyl companies, can be patchy.
However, there is a massive amount of good quality used vinyl out there in shops, online, all over the place and often in pristine quality. Personally, I'm delighted; vinyl is where music was always at for me. The day the album sleeve was reduced to a booklet small enough to fit in a jewel case was the day we started to lose something from the core of the whole experience. From tactile and artistic down to mere commodity in less than 20 years.
If those 219,000 sales help to start a resurgence in the appreciation for all of that, it's 219,000 in the right direction.
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