Why does my CD player sound better than my streamer

[steve_1979]

You know when you turn on your device and it formats itself sorts it's files out before you play anything

Do you have any idea what formatting actually means?

 

[Anderson]

Not related. I'm not talking about the reading or transfer being the reason to any degradation in sound but the actual data being read.

You know when you turn on your device and it formats itself sorts it's files out before you play anything or you add new data, is the area I'm talking about.

Ok.....

I'll comment on it in a minute.

Thomson, I'd recommend you read through these pages:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/BitPerfectJitter.htm

It will explain the concepts of digital data and transmission. you'll understand why a CDP with a buffer measuring milliseconds is never going to be bit perfect, whereas it's perfectly feasible from a fixed memory source, as you'd find in a PC or a streamer. The quality of the drive used to rip the files is also completely unimportant providing the checksum # gives the right result.

*lol*

 

[steve_1979]

Ok......

Let it marinate, it'll come clear.

Or you could actually correct me if you can and explain to those who you think I'm misleading how I'm misleading them.

Doubt you will though - maybe the term 'juggling the data to fit' would have been better.

I think it's safe to assume that you either haven't looked up what a checksum is or you haven't understood how it works.

 

[steve_1979]

The Arcam and the Cyrus feed digital signal to the same DAC, both coaxial, both from the same CD. The issue is either inaccurate rip (normalization is frequently forgoten left ON) or it is mere placebo.

+1

 

[Vladimir]

I think it's safe to assume that you either haven't looked up what a checksum is or you haven't understood how it works.

It's still marinating FFS. *yahoo*

 

[steve_1979]

When data is copied/transmited/stored, both the original data and the new copy of the data have checksum calculations performed on them which gives a unique number. If even one bit of data is missing or different between the two sets of data the resulting checksum number will show this. Whenever this happens the computer will attempt to recopy the data until the checksum shows them to both be identical. If the error continues the computer will know that the file has not been copied/transmited/stored successfully and an error message will show telling the user that the file has not been copied.

This is a very fundimental part of how a computer works. Without it computers would not be able to work at all.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.... At least you guys are thinking about it.

I tell you, it baffles me how some turn their nose up at some 'sales pitches' but embrace it in other forms.

I have no problem with your diagram Steve - ref your diagram each bit of the data is read then logged bit for bit.

But you don't account for corrections.(and I hope you understand what I mean by the term corrections)

Using your diagram looking at our data call it an 'l' for example - it's read in the same way but is a smigin to big for the area it's been stored - just a smidgen, your software instead saves 'i' - see the little gap - without that bit of the original data your file saves perfectly - it plays/reads back no problem.

More data is added to your memory more data is compromised to fit - we are still talking tiny tiny likkle bits of data.

But eventually that data even with software with built in fillers becomes unreadable or becomes noisy.

How many files saved to your hard drives have become corrupt unusable - a game, text what ever.

One of the reasons you are advised to back-up your files. And encouraged to buy the CD.

When you eventually send your computer/harddrive or whatever away to get 'cleaned' what do you think they're cleaning.

Some will refer to those bits of data that mess these devices up as 'ghosts in the machines'. You've heard the term - manga / I robot....lol

Like I said I'm not selling you any thing. But the next time you have a problem with your data, think about it.

Make of this what you will - feel free to dismiss it and move on.

;-)

 

[The_Lhc]

How many files saved to your hard drives have become corrupt unusable - a game, text what ever.

None, ever, not in the way you describe, the only way that happens is through drive failure or if a file is being written to when power is lost or the program writing the file is killed without allowing it to finish. If that happens to you a lot then I'd guess you're the type of person that likes to just switch their PC off at the wall without shutting it down first.

One of the reasons you are advised to back-up your files.

No, again that's to protect against hardware failure, not the bizarre, impossible process you describe, it simply DOES NOT HAPPEN LIKE THAT. Everything you are saying is complete nonsense.

When you eventually send your computer/harddrive or whatever away to get 'cleaned' what do you think they're cleaning.

Who ever does that? Nobody!

 

[Anderson]

*lol*

 

[matt49]

More data is added to your memory more data is compromised to fit - we are still talking tiny tiny likkle bits of data.

But eventually that data even with software with built in fillers becomes unreadable or becomes noisy.

How many files saved to your hard drives have become corrupt unusable - a game, text what ever.

I've been ripping CDs to my PC for nine years now. Not a single music file has become corrupted or degraded in any way. There are 50,000 files on my music server.

One of the reasons you are advised to back-up your files. And encouraged to buy the CD.

No, the reason you back up your hard drive is because of the risk of disk failure, theft, fire, earthquake etc. I have two back-ups of my music server, one on a separate hard disk at home, one on a hard disk 100 miles away. Oh, and I have all the CDs in the loft.

Much safer than relying on CDs alone.

 

[steve_1979]

...feel free to dismiss it and move on.

OK.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Holy ZX81 I've read some rubbish on here but.... I'll get a biscuit

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.......

 

[steve_1979]

Lol.......

At last we agree on something.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Goodnight fellas.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I find rather strange that we never had these conversations about CD players a spinny digital thing with a DAC chip and analog output stage. DAC chips are the easy headline a Wolfson xxxxxxxxx wow. I take it as gospel that the chosen chip is going to do its job of DA conversion. The clever bit, the bit that makes the differance to SQ is the analog and PSU sections this is side that is difficult and expensive to implement in a quality device.

 

[steve_1979]

Goodnight fellas.

Goodnight Thompson. Have a good one.

 

[Anderson]

Maybe read a book before you go to bed.

 

[matt49]

Maybe read a book before you go to bed.

Hmm, yes, maybe Jim Lesurf's Information and Measurement. Required reading for anyone interested in how musical data is stored and retrieved.

Matt

 

[steve_1979]

Hmm, yes, maybe Jim Lesurf's Information and Measurement. Required reading for anyone interested in how musical data is stored and retrieved.

Matt

Is it sad that I actually think that looks quite interesting?

 

[steve_1979]

When you eventually send your computer/harddrive or whatever away to get 'cleaned' what do you think they're cleaning.

Ahh so that's where all the dust in my computer case comes from. It's all the tiny little bits of missing data!

(this is a joke BTW)

 

[Vladimir]

Maybe read a book before you go to bed.

Ahh so that's where all the dust in my computer case comes from. It's all the tiny little bits of missing data!

(this is a joke BTW)

Comedy gold! *ROFL*

 

[steve_1979]

...But you don't account for corrections.(and I hope you understand what I mean by the term corrections)

Using your diagram looking at our data call it an 'l' for example - it's read in the same way but is a smigin to big for the area it's been stored - just a smidgen, your software instead saves 'i' - see the little gap - without that bit of the original data your file saves perfectly - it plays/reads back no problem.

More data is added to your memory more data is compromised to fit - we are still talking tiny tiny likkle bits of data.

A checksum makes sure that there are no "tiny tiny likkle" bits of data missing. Computers use checksums so that you can be sure the data is copied/transmitted/stored 100% perfectly.

I take you understand what 100% means? That's all of it. Every tiny tiny likkle bit of of it.

If an 'l' gets copied as an 'i' the checksum will show this error and the computer will recopy the data until it's 100% correct and 100% identical to the original.

 

[steve_1979]

I tell you, it baffles me how some turn their nose up at some 'sales pitches' but embrace it in other forms.

A checksum is not a sales pitch. It's a fundimental part of how digital information is used in computers.

 

[matt49]

Hmm, yes, maybe Jim Lesurf's Information and Measurement. Required reading for anyone interested in how musical data is stored and retrieved.

Matt

Is it sad that I actually think that looks quite interesting?

Not at all sad, Steve. About half of the book is available on his website (see link above), and it's a great read. Lesurf was Reader in Electronics at St Andrews and an audiophile. It's well worth exploring his whole website. He even talks about cables, and measures them of course.

Happy reading!

Matt