What turntable?

[Nathan]

So I have decided to jump in and add a turntable to my setup. I am not going to get a budget one and work up and instead want toget one that matches the specs/quality/ability of my setup.

I have a Roksan Caspian M2 amp and a set of Monitor Audio Silver 6 fronts and am using a Roksan Kandy Mk3 CD player at the moment.

I am considering either a Rega Planar 3 with the Elys 2 cartridge combo or the Project RPM3 Carbon. Both are about the same price and seem to have good reviews.

Are these good options (and if so which one?) or are there better ones to mate with my system?

Nathan

 

[avole]

Pro-ject are OK, but they can be plagued by motor noise at the lower end of their range.

 

[stevebrock]

Get the Rega - easy to setup and sounds good for the money

 

[Al ears]

So I have decided to jump in and add a turntable to my setup. I am not going to get a budget one and work up and instead want toget one that matches the specs/quality/ability of my setup.

I have a Roksan Caspian M2 amp and a set of Monitor Audio Silver 6 fronts and am using a Roksan Kandy Mk3 CD player at the moment.

I am considering either a Rega Planar 3 with the Elys 2 cartridge combo or the Project RPM3 Carbon. Both are about the same price and seem to have good reviews.

Are these good options (and if so which one?) or are there better ones to mate with my system?

Nathan

Does that Roksan have an inbuilt phono stage??

I don't think so. You've got to add an external phono preamp to your budget. This might effect the need to add a turntable in the first place and what you can afford.

Let us know what your actual budget is.

I often question why people want to add a turntable anyway. Do you own a vinyl collection?

 

[bigfish786]

Spend more!

Theres a gorgeous roksan radius turntable on eBay right now. £845 Looks the dogs back wheels.

That will serve you well for years to come

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112103387468

 

[Al ears]

Spend more!

Theres a gorgeous roksan radius turntable on eBay right now. £845 Looks the dogs back wheels.

That will serve you well for years to come

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112103387468

The Roksan is overpriced and he's still going to have to factor in the cost of a preamp.

Whatever, it would appear the listing has been removed.

 

[Nathan]

You see, this is why we have these forums!

I rather assumed that the amp would have a phono stage but actually it doesn't - as mentioned above. The manual says that as the amp is a line level amp and I need a phono pre-amp! That will teach me.

So assuming that I went for the Rega this gives me three options.

1 - I have a Denon AVR-X4200W that handles the 5.1 system with the front pre-outs going to the Roksan M2. The Denon has an MM phono input so I could connect to that and then let the signal pre-put to the Caspian

2 - Buy a phono pre-amp. Any ideas which one?

3 - I have the option of swapping in the Caspian M2 in for the Roksan Blak amp instead. I loved it when I heard it but wasn't sure about spending an extra £1,000 over the M2. However as I am also in the market for a headphone amp and would now need to buy a phono amp, would this be the better move? It is a better amp and I'm sure would be a better phono pre-amp too than the Denon but is it worth the extra £1k? (Although it would 'save' me £400 on the headphone amp I guess)

 

[Al ears]

You see, this is why we have these forums!

I rather assumed that the amp would have a phono stage but actually it doesn't - as mentioned above. The manual says that as the amp is a line level amp and I need a phono pre-amp! That will teach me.

So assuming that I went for the Rega this gives me three options.

1 - I have a Denon AVR-X4200W that handles the 5.1 system with the front pre-outs going to the Roksan M2. The Denon has an MM phono input so I could connect to that and then let the signal pre-put to the Caspian

2 - Buy a phono pre-amp. Any ideas which one?

3 - I have the option of swapping in the Caspian M2 in for the Roksan Blak amp instead. I loved it when I heard it but wasn't sure about spending an extra £1,000 over the M2. However as I am also in the market for a headphone amp and would now need to buy a phono amp, would this be the better move? It is a better amp and I'm sure would be a better phono pre-amp too than the Denon but is it worth the extra £1k? (Although it would 'save' me £400 on the headphone amp I guess)

Tricky questions, but not option one.. ;-)

 

[stevebrock]

What is your budget for a phono stage

 

[Nathan]

Difficult to say. Depends on what they cost - £500 or so. Hence why I was thinking of the upgrade to the Blak

 

[stevebrock]

Nathan you need to seriously think about getting into vinyl

there is no cheap way that is going to leave a lasting impression

the fact you don't know how much phono stages cost begs the question your motive for getting into vinyl

vinyl requires money time and commitment - are you ready for that ?

Phono stages can cost as little as £20 to thousands

do you own a record collection. ?

 

[Nathan]

I do indeed have a reasonable vinyl collection. To gauge how much to spend though, what I'm after is a steer as to what I need to spend on a phono stage that would fit in with the rest of the system in terms of quality. In truth I'm not too worried about the cost but any phono stage would need to fit into the same quality bracket as the rest so as not to create a bottleneck in that the phono stage is held back by the stereo amp and turntable or visa versa. If such a phono stage costs £200 ok, if it costs £1,000 so be it. Just need the steer as to options really or whether the Roksan Blak is the best combo that would cover all bases. I am leaning towards the Blak at the moment though

 

[ifor]

..., but you might find the Graham Slee home loan scheme useful. Join the forum at https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/ and you will be able to try several of his phono stages, at different price points, for a couple of weeks in your own system.

 

[Nathan]

Quite like the idea of the loan.

So I've done a bit of reading up and it does seem that the pre-amps that cost £1,500+ need a far more expensive deck to get the best out of them than I am looking to buy so I'm inclined to rule them out - happy to spend the money, but not to waste it. As such I am leaning towards one of three options.

1 - Swap the M2 for the Roksan Blak. The reviews are top. An extra £1,000 but it does give a better stereo amp and a quality headphone setup.

2 - Get the Rega Fono MM mk2. £200 seems a bargain and the reviews are all very positive. Question is whether this would be a better MM pre than the MM that the Blak has.

3 - Get a Rega Aria. Seems like a good pre-amp and has the MC option as well as the MM one. While the turntable I'm looking at would be used with an MM one, who knows what the future might bring. The immediate question is whether the MM side is £600 better than the Fono.

 

[brownz]

The new Blak is lovely. But to be fair so is the M2. The M2 with a Lehmann Black Cube SE is a combo I've used a fair bit in testing and is a cracking solution.

(Other combinations of other stuff are available - just commenting on a pairing I've personally used).

 

[Nathan]

Now that looks like a good combo - Thank's for that. Do you think that combo would be better than 'just' the Blak or is it much the much?

 

[Al ears]

Now that looks like a good combo - Thank's for that. Do you think that combo would be better than 'just' the Blak or is it much the much?

Whilst the phono stage in the Blak might be very good it is only for MM cartridges. The benefits of the Black Cube SE and even the more expensive Lehmans is that they would allow the use of moving coil cartridges as well if you ever went down that route.

There are other good phono stages around that price bracket now, the Tom Evans Audio Microgroove X Mk2 being a very notable contender.

 

[Nathan]

Thanks a lot - just the info I was after. So for the Lehmann's, I see that there's a Black Cube, a Black Cube SE and a Black Cube SE II. Which would be the best bet for what I have? There is not a lot in the prices really so I am inclined towards the SE II if it's not more than my system needs

 

[brownz]

Speaking from personal experience (I run a Black Cube SE at home coupled to a 2-Xperience SB through an aging Onkyo TX-SR608) and after auditioning the SE and SEII - I plumped for the SE. It has the PWX PSU which does make a marked difference over the entry level Black Cube. The SEII - from the POV of my ears wasn't worth the extra wonga, and didn't sound markedly different to the SE. The SEII looks nicer and is in a shiny case however if bling comes into the mix ;-)

 

[Nathan]

Ok so after all your guys' help I went and tried a bunch of kit. The end result was actually me going in a slightly different direction. The first thing to try was a bunch of pre-amps all with a Project 1 Xpression and the M2 Caspian. The best on blanace was the Black Cube SE - the SE 2 looked cooler (you were right) but didn't sound any different. I then tried the Roksan Blak instead of the M2 and a pre-amp. The Blak on its own was better than the Black cube/M2 combo. However I then out of curiosity tried putting the Black Cube SE in as a pre-amp and connecting to a line in on the Blak and not the phono and the damn thing sounded a little better - not heaps but it was noticeable. So, I ended up swapping the M2 for the Blak and getting the SE as well.

So this kind of takes me back to my original question re the turntable. I ran out of time on the demo so given what I now have I am thinking of the Project Carbon (£799) Project 2 XPerience (£1000) or the Rega Planar 3 (£625).

Any views or should I look at others too? Demoing is a pain as no one really stocks them all so I would like to narrow it down.

 

[brownz]

Ok so after all your guys' help I went and tried a bunch of kit. The end result was actually me going in a slightly different direction. The first thing to try was a bunch of pre-amps all with a Project 1 Xpression and the M2 Caspian. The best on blanace was the Black Cube SE - the SE 2 looked cooler (you were right) but didn't sound any different. I then tried the Roksan Blak instead of the M2 and a pre-amp. The Blak on its own was better than the Black cube/M2 combo. However I then out of curiosity tried putting the Black Cube SE in as a pre-amp and connecting to a line in on the Blak and not the phono and the damn thing sounded a little better - not heaps but it was noticeable. So, I ended up swapping the M2 for the Blak and getting the SE as well.

So this kind of takes me back to my original question re the turntable. I ran out of time on the demo so given what I now have I am thinking of the Project Carbon (£799) Project 2 XPerience (£1000) or the Rega Planar 3 (£625).

Any views or should I look at others too? Demoing is a pain as no one really stocks them all so I would like to narrow it down.

Nice ;-) I'm a huge fan of the 2-Xperience SB (again I may be slightly biased), I went down the 2M Black route as well after I found the standard 2M Silver a little lacking for my mainly thumping dance / electronica and rock / indie. Love the Walnut finish as well as it doesn't mark up or smudge like the gloss finishes do. Talk to your local hifi emporium - they *should* be able to get demo units in on request for you to listen to if they don't have their own demo stock.

 

[Nathan]

Well that's handy as my local Richer Sounds (who my wife will soon be banning me from attending) have a 2 Xperience in stock in walnut that they are just begging me to have for £900 as I've spent a sodding fortune there this year. I shall give it a go on Sunday in that case. Not sure I could submit myself to dancy beep beep music but I will give one of the new 180gr pressings of Queen II a good outing!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I got my 2 xperience for 600 quid without a cart....if I was you I'd be doing a bit more digging for a better deal than £900-£1000...it's a fine turntable btw . Although it could be the xperience 2 pack your talking about which does have the 9cc evo tonearm.

 

[Nathan]

Yes it is the one with the 9cc arm and an Ortofon silver cartridge so it should be good to go

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

There is a 9cc arm and a 9cc evo....with the evo being the more expensive one usually found on the project turntables circa £1000.both are good arms but the evo will probably give you more options re cartridges in the future if you plan to upgrade.