What`s the point in £1000 cd players!

[Thompsonuxb]

If a ripped CD cannot improve on an original in terms of resolution, info on the disc and can only do a bit perfect copy......what's your argument.

You really don't have a clue, do you? And I don't get the idea you have any desire to learn something.

Why don't you read something about 'error correction' before writing more uninformed rubbish?

Please explain what you're so mad about?

what clue do I need and why do I need to read something about error correction to listen to music?

Please clarify.

No-one has suggested you need to read stuff in order to listen to music. That's a red herring. What's been suggested is that you should learn a bit more before making statements on this forum about things you don't understand, e.g. the difference between playing a CD and ripping one.

Again, what are you talking about?

What as learning anything got to do with listening to a CD or a ripped cd.

If I was saying one sounds worse than the other that's one thing.

I'm saying the best you'll get from a ripped CD is equal to the original CD it was copied from at best in terms of play back.

As for me not knowing.... Prrrrft....you guys need to worry about yourselves.

 

[steve_1979]

Ahhh classic!

*lol*

 

[bigfish786]

Put simply, to play music better. To provide greater satisfaction. To add an air of quality.

And obviously, on this forum, to provide endless hours of argument to people that have nothing else better to do!

if you have a hifi, go listen to the bloody thing instead of trolling the internet trying to brew arguments with everyone.

 

[Native_bon]

Put simply, to play music better. To provide greater satisfaction. To add an air of quality.

And obviously, on this forum, to provide endless hours of argument to people that have nothing else better to do!

if you have a hifi, go listen to the bloody thing instead of trolling the internet trying to brew arguments with everyone.

Agree

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Put simply, to play music better. To provide greater satisfaction. To add an air of quality.

And obviously, on this forum, to provide endless hours of argument to people that have nothing else better to do!

if you have a hifi, go listen to the bloody thing instead of trolling the internet trying to brew arguments with everyone.

The irony.....

 

[chunky70]

I suppose what has to be asked is how in 2015 does a £1000 cd player justify it's price?

Very good quality can be had for much less these days.

 

[LDTM]

I suppose what has to be asked is how in 2015 does a £1000 cd player justify it's price?

Very good quality can be had for much less these days.

Similar arguments can be made with respect to many expensive variations on any number of product categories. Ultimately it comes down to personal preferences and sound quality alone may not necessarily be the sole motivating factor in the consumer decision making process. The diversity of preferences contributes to the breadth of selection available - variety and the spice of life after all. Although, one could also say that the reason we used to spice things was because the thing being spiced had gone rotten...hmm...

To offer a partial answer to your question though, I think the justification, in part at least, is related to the appeal of owning something exclusive and exotic. Pride in ownership perhaps? After having sacrificed for a long time there is a palpable sense of achievement in owning something more than ordinary. I recall reading about one german marque who found that something like a quarter of its customers bought into the brand specifically for that reason.

 

[EvPa]

I suppose what has to be asked is how in 2015 does a £1000 cd player justify it's price?

Well, it could use a now-discontinued Philips CD-PRO2LF mechanism, though given the price of one of those you would be looking at nearly GBP 1,000 for a DIY CD player.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I suppose what has to be asked is how in 2015 does a £1000 cd player justify it's price?

Very good quality can be had for much less these days.

The short answer is to listen to one and compare with the cheaper 'very good quality'

 

[manicm]

The transport and laser are extremely important in a CD player. 13 years ago a copy protected CD - Roger Waters Flickering Flame would not play in my laptop, googled and taking a marker to the circumference did the trick - so the laser was manipulated. And between my last 2 laptops, with the same software, I believe some rips sound different. EAC has definitely behaved differently between the 2 laptops - it does not get on well with error correction in my new laptop - ripping is extremely slow. So I don't believe ripping is an entirely consistent process - after all there is still a cd drive and laser to contend with - just like a normal CDP!

So a DAC is only one component in a CD player - and thus CDPs are not made equal IMHO. And I've had about 5 disc players in my lifetime - be it CDP/DVD/Blu-ray. A few were awful.

To answer iMark as to why I think PC playback is not ideal, well you can get players/software that will do the switching automatically when playing between hires and standard-res. But I believe it's expensive. And from what I've read upsampling in PC is not always a good idea. A dedicated streamer of-course doesn't have this problem. And for me it is, because I've realised I'd be buying some hires material out of necessity - as in my location 7digital has now become blocked if I wanted a new album at 16/44, but some sites like ProAudioMasters will have the hires master directly from the label, but not standard 16/44.

Others wouldn't want to bother with all this, I suspect the CDP will still be around for many years to come.

 

[BigH]

What is this £1,000 cdp? I can't think of one I would buy.There are a few good ones around about £500-£600, so for me spending anymore than that is not worth it. New cdps don't seem as reliable as they used to be 20 years ago.

 

[ellisdj]

i haven't really been happy since i went to hdd+dac, purely on sound quality terms (i love the convenience).

personally, i'm starting to think the technology needs a little longer to mature.

Your using the wrong stuff then - this matured a few years ago, some are far more advanced than others thats all!!

Still imroving all the time though so your right there

 

[cheeseboy]

A dedicated streamer of-course doesn't have this problem.

you are aware that a dedicated streamer is basically a pc right? It will no doubt run some form of linux and use most of the standard open source software that's already out there. Naim used to use windows embedded as well.

However instead of using a nice graphical gui and a monitor, it just outputs basic info to whatever size screen/display they put in it.

Also, there is free software, such as mediamonkey which will automatically change the rate for you, so no cost involved.

 

[manicm]

A dedicated streamer of-course doesn't have this problem.

you are aware that a dedicated streamer is basically a pc right? It will no doubt run some form of linux and use most of the standard open source software that's already out there. Naim used to use windows embedded as well.

However instead of using a nice graphical gui and a monitor, it just outputs basic info to whatever size screen/display they put in it.

Also, there is free software, such as mediamonkey which will automatically change the rate for you, so no cost involved.

A streamer may be basically a PC, but is pared down and optimised for network playback, and avoids the pitfalls and overhead of a normal PC.

Also, NO, MonkeyMedia will not do automatic sample rate switching unless you install ASIO or WASAPI drivers - and from what I've read these are hit-or-miss affairs - depending on setup they can cause high CPU overhead.

 

[cheeseboy]

A streamer may be basically a PC, but is pared down and optimised for network playback, and avoids the pitfalls and overhead of a normal PC.

true, but there are operating system setups such as vortexbox/daphile for x86 based pc's and rune audio/volumio for the pi/arm based pc's that do just that. If you get chance I highly recommend it. It's one of the reasons Linux is used - not just because it's free, but it allows you to customise the install and only have a system with the bits you need, no extra guff - this is a lot harder with windows as it relies on the gui etc which windows doesn't.

Also, NO, MonkeyMedia will not do automatic sample rate switching unless you install ASIO or WASAPI drivers - and from what I've read these are hit-or-miss affairs - depending on setup they can cause high CPU overhead.

on the contrary, one should be running either ASIO or WASAPI drivers if you are using a pc for a music source as that's how they bypass the windows mixer and allow the software to talk directly to the soundcard/dac without anything getting in the way, which reduces latency and other assocaited issues. ASIO is what is used for digital recording for many a moon and should also be used for playback, or WASAPI if ASIO is not available. Sorry, but whatever you have read on that is wrong. It might also explain why you don't have the automatic switching. Depending on your setup and playback software, it may also dramatically improve sound quality. the cpu overhead isn't an issue at all. Given I used to do 8 track simulatanious recording on an old P4 based computer and it still didn't max out the cpu, playback really isn't a problem.

 

[MajorFubar]

£1000 CDPs do certainly have a nice kudos factor though, and good build quality. As for the sound, I'd like to hear a true unbiased comparison between the 'best' £1000 CDP and a £200 Windows laptop streaming lossless rips through an £800 DAC. It would be good to hear which one sounds best, if there is a difference to be heard at all.

 

[chebby]

Duplicate erased

 

[MajorFubar]

Nice insight Chebby thanks for sharing it.

 

[chebby]

£1000 CDPs do certainly have a nice kudos factor though, and good build quality. As for the sound, I'd like to hear a true unbiased comparison between the 'best' £1000 CDP and a £200 Windows laptop streaming lossless rips through an £800 DAC. It would be good to hear which one sounds best, if there is a difference to be heard at all.

The performance of an old Beresford TC-7520 (USB connected to iTunes on old Dell laptop playing lossless rips) compared to a Naim CD5i-2 (both through a Naim Nait 5i-2) was decisive in persuading me to leave the Naim in it's carton, in a cupboard, for 6 months until I got around to selling the whole system.

For almost two years the 'star' of the system was a gorgeous sounding Naim NAT05 tuner and then the Beresford TC-7520 (with LM4562NA op-amps).

It was also more versatile as - apart from lossless ripped CD files - I could use it with the television / BDP/ PVR (via optical) and BBC iPlayer Radio and YouTube etc. etc.

I think the CD5i-2 qualifies as a "£1000 CD player". (It's what it would cost now.)

Next move is likely to be a Quad Vena with it's built-in DAC plus an Apple TV (for AirPlay) if it can sound obviouly better than my Marantz M-CR603 when I get a chance to try both out. (I mean properly better with content that I enjoy at volumes that I prefer in my own living-room. I don't mean 'hi-fi shop demo better'.)

Anyway, whatever way it goes, no more separate CD players. It's clunky and there is no point.

CDs? Yes (to rip) more-and-more because no streaming or download service on Earth offers what I can still get easily from CD. But not for music.

 

[manicm]

@cheeseboy - I don't dispute your findings, but the fact you recommend Linux just confirms for me that pc playback is a wanton faff.

@MajorFubar, at 800 quid I seriously question the value of a dedicated DAC, in fact I do so at any price. At 800 I can buy a fab standalone streamer, and have change for buying music, or a NAS drive.

For a full hifi system, I don't see any value in a standalone dac since many amps, CD players and streamers offer most of the functionality.

 

[cheeseboy]

@cheeseboy - I don't dispute your findings, but the fact you recommend Linux just confirms for me that pc playback is a wanton faff.

No, I said the reason those who produce streamers use linux is because of the reasons outlined. Doesn't mean you have to use linux, many many people use windows without any problems.

Calling it wanton faff I'm afraid just makes you sound very dismissive and not willing to take on board what has been said. 🙁

 

[Craig M.]

i haven't really been happy since i went to hdd+dac, purely on sound quality terms (i love the convenience).

personally, i'm starting to think the technology needs a little longer to mature.

Your using the wrong stuff then - this matured a few years ago, some are far more advanced than others thats all!!

Still imroving all the time though so your right there

Did you notice I posted that about 6 years ago? I think the problem was the amp I had at the time didn't like the rf that was coming from the dac I had, nothing to do with the computer as it turned out.