What is the point of a streamer?

[MajorFubar]

Like I've said it's definitely not for me but I think we should celebrate that all these different options are available. When I was first getting into hifi the only real option if you were at all serious about a good source was a turntable.

 

[chebby]

When I was first getting into hifi the only real option if you were at all serious about a good source was a turntable.

Why does everyone forget about the FM tuner? (I am assuming they existed when you got your first system.)

That has always been a 'serious' source if some care was taken over installing a decent aerial.

During the 30 years I had turntables, I would have given up vinyl in favour of the tuner if forced to choose one or the other. ('Your Desert Island Hi-fi Source' for a new thread maybe?)

 

[Andrej_1]

Like I've said it's definitely not for me but I think we should celebrate that all these different options are available. When I was first getting into hifi the only real option if you were at all serious about a good source was a turntable.

+1 for the first statement! Just enjoy the various options that technology provides

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I have digitised my music bit-perfect in Flac and only need to listen in one room. I can connect a Computer to my Hi-Fi either wirelessly

Really? How?

only guessing here. a bluetooth DAC or something similar? Chordette Gem by any chance?

 

[plastic penguin]

When I was first getting into hifi the only real option if you were at all serious about a good source was a turntable.

Why does everyone forget about the FM tuner? (I am assuming they existed when you got your first system.)

That has always been a 'serious' source if some care was taken over installing a decent aerial.

Ahem... that's why I think streamers are good. The likes of Marantz, Rotel, Arcam etc etc tend to have FM/DAB tuners...

 

[MajorFubar]

When I was first getting into hifi the only real option if you were at all serious about a good source was a turntable.

Why does everyone forget about the FM tuner? (I am assuming they existed when you got your first system.)

That has always been a 'serious' source if some care was taken over installing a decent aerial.

Providing you're happy with someone else's choice of music, I suppose yes. Still never sounded as good as the LP though.

 

[chebby]

...wittering DJs, banal phone-ins, adverts every fifteen minutes...no thanks.

That's not my experience of radio. Can you only receive commercial stations in your area?

 

[John Duncan]

You have just reminded me to try and find France Bleu Limousin on my streamer...

 

[chebby]

You have just reminded me to try and find France Bleu Limousin on my streamer...

"Vu d'ici Limoges, France." (just found it on TuneIn Radio Pro)

I'll have a listen when I get home.

 

[John Duncan]

It's interesting. Veered wildly from Radio 4 territory (if your French is up to it) to Radio 2 (and maybe the edge of 1, though maybe I'm just old) from one hour to the next.

 

[AnotherJoe]

I've never seen the point of getting a streamer meself. I've got an airport express for the hifi and one for the kitchen. i'll either stream from the imac, iphone or use the iphone as a remote, it all sounds great to me. The Tunein radio app on the iphone is superb, spotify is great too.

Its all very tidy and versatile.

Cheers, Ed

And this is the point - it sounds good to you.

The fact that Apple's wireless streaming solution is not great in terms of quality is probably of no interest to you.

Its easy to use, you think the quality is fine - and to most people thats all that matters.

 

[chebby]

It's interesting. Veered wildly from Radio 4 territory (if your French is up to it) to Radio 2 (and maybe the edge of 1, though maybe I'm just old) from one hour to the next.

Mmm. Quite eclectic. Nice background...

but, 'hashy', overly compressed and a bit thibilant. A little too much English/American MOR in between the more interesting French stuff.

I checked the 'Playing Options' and it only offers 32kbps. That might explain the quality as I am mostly used to 'broadcasts' of 96k -> 320k (and AAC more often than not).

However, it's fun in a sort of... "takes me back to listening to French stations on an old MW/LW transistor radio as a kid" way, and it's qualitative 'sins' are ok with the volume down a bit while I work.

 

[relocated]

The problem is that no-one is going to agree on this. Marketing now forces us to believe that the simple products like the Apple Express and products as the Squeezebox can not possibly be good enough quality at their respective prices because now there are HIFI products from the usual suspects. The fact that they convey the exact same digits, be they £85 or £1000, is somehow no longer relevant.

The vast majority of undeluded people will get along fine with the @ £100 package and then the golden eared will insist that those digits will be transmitted SO much better on a £1000 device. It makes the wheels of industry turn and plenty of people will be seperated needlessly from their money for the exact same service.

Ever it always was and will be. :O

 

[Cypher]

I think the new machines like the Pioneer N-50, Denon DNP-720AE, Cambridge Audio NP30 are great machines.

They look good, they sound good and it's very easy to play music from a USB stick.........

There is a market for everything

 

[John Duncan]

The problem is that no-one is going to agree on this. Marketing now forces us to believe that the simple products like the Apple Express and products as the Squeezebox can not possibly be good enough quality at their respective prices because now there are HIFI products from the usual suspects. The fact that they convey the exact same digits, be they £85 or £1000, is somehow no longer relevant.

I can assure you that a Stream Magic sounds an awful lot better than an Airport Express through their respective analogue outs.

 

[amcluesent]

>it turns out that Roy Gandy of Rega has been asking the same question himself.<

Yep. Because Rega don't have a streamer to sell! As we say in investment banking, he's 'talking his book' or as IT staff say "if you can't fix it, feature it!"

 

[edplaysdrums42]

I can assure you that a Stream Magic sounds an awful lot better than an Airport Express through their respective analogue outs.

I use the optical out on the AE into an Audiolab 8200cd, to be honest there's barely any difference between playing a cd and using the imac or iphone as a source, to my ears anyway. If i want a posh listen i'll stick the TT on.

Cheers, Ed

 

[John Duncan]

So do I - but taking an optical out from an airport express to a DAC levels the playing field considerably. I'm talking about their native analogue outs, which are worlds apart.

 

[WinterRacer]

So do I - but taking an optical out from an airport express to a DAC levels the playing field considerably. I'm talking about their native analogue outs, which are worlds apart.

Can you hear a difference between the optical output from the AE and CA StreamMagic into the same DAC? If so, what does the difference sound like?

For the record, I've tried a few digital outputs and never been able to hear a difference.

 

[CnoEvil]

>it turns out that Roy Gandy of Rega has been asking the same question himself.<

Yep. Because Rega don't have a streamer to sell! As we say in investment banking, he's 'talking his book' or as IT staff say "if you can't fix it, feature it!"

I reckon some of the "old school" audiophiles like Roy Gandy and Peter Qvortrup (Audio Note), just don't want to get their head around Streaming. Shame really.

 

[John Duncan]

So do I - but taking an optical out from an airport express to a DAC levels the playing field considerably. I'm talking about their native analogue outs, which are worlds apart.

Can you hear a difference between the optical output from the AE and CA StreamMagic into the same DAC? If so, what does the difference sound like?

For the record, I've tried a few digital outputs and never been able to hear a difference.

I use the SM6 as a DAC for my airport express, and no I can't tell the difference given exactly same material, but that's not the point I'm making - it's that given any streamer, whether it be an 80 quid airport express or a two grand ND5 XS, in my experience it's the treatment of the analogue output that makes the most difference over everything else.

 

[Overdose]

So do I - but taking an optical out from an airport express to a DAC levels the playing field considerably. I'm talking about their native analogue outs, which are worlds apart.

Can you hear a difference between the optical output from the AE and CA StreamMagic into the same DAC? If so, what does the difference sound like?

For the record, I've tried a few digital outputs and never been able to hear a difference.

I use the SM6 as a DAC for my airport express, and no I can't tell the difference given exactly same material, but that's not the point I'm making - it's that given any streamer, whether it be an 80 quid airport express or a two grand ND5 XS, in my experience it's the treatment of the analogue output that makes the most difference over everything else.

+1, but I think the analogue section is the only differential. I may get around to taking a balanced signal straight from my DAC evaluation board to the outputs and cut out the analogue gain section completely. Should be enough gain in balanced mode straight from the DAC chip. We'll see.

 

[manicm]

I also have the finest multi-room system money can buy and there's no argument about that.

By what measure?

Sonos is by far the simplest multi-room system to install and setup - no experience required unlike e.g. Linn. And while high-end makers like the Scottish company and Naim require Ethernet for their best, Sonos has been designed ground-up for wireless connection. And their technology has improved with each release, albeit probably still not 100% immune from radio/micro wave interference, but it's probably pretty robust now (lhc will know better).

Sonos is a lot more robust than the flaky Squeezeboxes, and unlike the latter has full NAS support as well. Sonos is the de-facto 1st class wireless multiroom system, no doubt about it.

 

[MajorFubar]

...wittering DJs, banal phone-ins, adverts every fifteen minutes...no thanks.

That's not my experience of radio. Can you only receive commercial stations in your area?

I removed that before you even posted the reply because I knew someone would come back at it. No, I can just as easily receive BBC transmissions, but, unless I'm listening to Radio 4, I find nealy all DJs to be an unwanted interruption to the music. Most of the DJs I actually did value the contribution of are now dead.

 

[manicm]

Don't really see the issue for or against streamers. Clearly they suit some and not others; mirrors other formats. You may as well argue what's the point of all-in-ones like the Uniti or Arcam Solo.

Is this a fair assessment or a non sequitur?

The raison d'etre of a streamer, a good one anyway, is to offer the convenience of having all your music at your fingertips as opposed to changing CDs. Well you might say aha a PC can achieve the same. Well yes, with thingies like Airport Express you can do that but that means having a PC on all the time and probably dedicated to music duty while playing.

An ideal streaming solution does away with the PC entirely for playback and uses a NAS instead (go google) which can be hidden neatly out of sight. And a good streaming solution will have good control points as well (initially flaky but steadily improving).

Another reason for a good streamer as opposed to the PC is if you want to dabble in high-res music, where I will categorically maintain the latter is a pain in the posterior as inevitably tweaking back and forth will be required, although Cambridge Audio and a few others now provide drivers which apparently alleviate this problem, but to my mind the NAS is still the better solution - and files on there will be accessible on your entire home network as well.

My main gripe with streamers is that sans PC they require ethernet spaghetti. Except Sonos of-course which has been designed for wi-fi/wireless streaming, but does not yet support high-res but I don't see that as a major dealbreaker.

The Uniti is a pretty delightful and versatile device if you're prepared to put up with ethernet - they have built-in high-quality, high power amplifiers (the main Uniti/Uniti 2 and SuperUniti models anyway), built-in streaming/digital radio streaming/DAB/FM, even a CD player, plus digital iPod connectivity. If you got the moola it's the way to go. Linn are apparently also attempting to improve usability in their products, and have begun developing their own media server software as well (currently supports iTunes only).