What is the point of a streamer?

[Overdose]

In terms of simply playing digital music files though, they are not as versatile as a Pc.

Why not?

Pcs play almost all types of digital media, SACD being an exception. They also have internal storage, that many streamers do not and they are upgradeable. Although the functions are similar, they cannot really be compared directly though, as streaming is just one of many things that a Pc can do against the relatively limited capabilities of a streamer.

 

[whoam1]

Because Sonos doesn't support 24-bit audio (yet, if ever).

Whereas Logitech's Squeezebox Touch does, is significantly cheaper & also does mutli-room.

It doesn't do it as well as Sonos does though.

I have a touch and radio and both work and sound just fine to me so how is sonos better?

Sonos doesn't use your own wi-fi network, which will collapse under the weight of 4 or 5 Squeezeboxes, it has its own mesh network which allows up 32 individual zoneplayers to either play completely separate streams or all to be perfectly syncronised (or any combination in between), Squeezebox won't do that.

OK, it needs it's own server software but there are many a NAS that support it natively these days.

And many that don't, whereas with Sonos you can pretty much just take your pick. There's also the suggestion that Logitech aren't that interested in Squeezebox any more, so development and support may be an issue in the future.

Who suggested this, what was your source please?

That rumour (and I admit that's all it is at the moment) has been winging its way around the internet for several months now, I've seen it here, on the Sonos forum (not surprisingly perhaps), AV Forums, take your pick.

So, what is your view of Sonos? :?

 

[The_Lhc]

In terms of simply playing digital music files though, they are not as versatile as a Pc.

Why not?

Pcs play almost all types of digital media, SACD being an exception. They also have internal storage, that many streamers do not and they are upgradeable. Although the functions are similar, they cannot really be compared directly though, as streaming is just one of many things that a Pc can do against the relatively limited capabilities of a streamer.

So what you meant was, in terms of simply playing digital music files streamers are as versatile as a PC, in terms of doing all sorts of other things, they're not? Seems fair but then I didn't pay anything like as much for my streamer as I did for my laptop. I also don't want the storage in the streamer as that makes it much harder to upgrade it when required, whereas with my NAS I can just pull the drives out and replace them with bigger ones, without worrying about the streamer itself (Which I've had for about 5 years now and doesn't require upgrading, whereas most PCs do).

 

[The_Lhc]

So, what is your view of Sonos? :?

Who me? I'd have thought I'd made that quite obvious by now? I've had Sonos for about 5 years now (I think, I can't honestly remember exactly how long), I love it, wouldn't have anything else in the house.

 

[tino]

Music file + storage + server + client + DAC + amplifier + speakers/headphones + control point = something that can take digital music and play it through to your ears.

There are many ways to distribute or consoliodate these functions .. in the cloud, on a CD, on a hard disc, on a server, in a computer, from your iThingy, in an all in one box etc. etc.

I've tried different combinations but the most robust, convenient and lowest maintenance for me is to have a streamer, whilst the most flexible, complicated and highest maintenance is the computer + DAC.

 

[Overdose]

In terms of simply playing digital music files though, they are not as versatile as a Pc.

Why not?

Pcs play almost all types of digital media, SACD being an exception. They also have internal storage, that many streamers do not and they are upgradeable. Although the functions are similar, they cannot really be compared directly though, as streaming is just one of many things that a Pc can do against the relatively limited capabilities of a streamer.

So what you meant was, in terms of simply playing digital music files streamers are as versatile as a PC, in terms of doing all sorts of other things, they're not? Seems fair but then I didn't pay anything like as much for my streamer as I did for my laptop. I also don't want the storage in the streamer as that makes it much harder to upgrade it when required, whereas with my NAS I can just pull the drives out and replace them with bigger ones, without worrying about the streamer itself (Which I've had for about 5 years now and doesn't require upgrading, whereas most PCs do).

No, a streamer is less versatile, by virtue of the fact that generally, they are without optical drive.

A small form factor Pc is no more difficult to upgrade than a NAS really and Pcs only need to be upgraded when they become slow at dealing with later applications, which these days is not that often. Nothing really stresses modern computers anymore, with the exception of 3D gaming or video editing and with the future of gaming going towards online servers, this is to become less of an issue.

A Pc is a streamer and more besides, a streamer is just a streamer. If you wanted a VFM, play all (nearly) digital media player, a small form factor Pc or laptop is the place to go.

 

[The_Lhc]

In terms of simply playing digital music files though, they are not as versatile as a Pc.

Why not?

Pcs play almost all types of digital media, SACD being an exception. They also have internal storage, that many streamers do not and they are upgradeable. Although the functions are similar, they cannot really be compared directly though, as streaming is just one of many things that a Pc can do against the relatively limited capabilities of a streamer.

So what you meant was, in terms of simply playing digital music files streamers are as versatile as a PC, in terms of doing all sorts of other things, they're not? Seems fair but then I didn't pay anything like as much for my streamer as I did for my laptop. I also don't want the storage in the streamer as that makes it much harder to upgrade it when required, whereas with my NAS I can just pull the drives out and replace them with bigger ones, without worrying about the streamer itself (Which I've had for about 5 years now and doesn't require upgrading, whereas most PCs do).

No, a streamer is less versatile, by virtue of the fact that generally, they are without optical drive.

Why would I need one of those?

A Pc is a streamer and more besides, a streamer is just a streamer.

Yes, that's why I bought a streamer, I didn't want it to do anything else. A PC also won't do all of those things out of the box, the user will have to install and configure a bunch of software to do it (and update it and patch it etc etc), something else I couldn't be bothered with, so I paid less money and got exactly what I wanted.

 

[professorhat]

Of course a streamer is less versatile than a PC - a streamer has been built with one purpose in mind. You could argue the same about many things and a PC - a Blu-ray player, a CD player, a television - a PC can do all the things that these devices do, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't have any of them.

For most people, the benefit of a streamer is it sits on a shelf somewhere out of the way and is accessed via a remote control / app on a smart phone. A PC / laptop has to be able to be both mobile (normally anyway, so it can be used around the house) and also able to sit somewhere plugged into the hifi whilst still being able to control it and select music. This will generally negate the ability to control it from the sofa / listening position as well.

I'm not saying everyone should have a streamer, just that there are very good reasons why some people would want one instead of / as well as a PC. One good example is, I'd imagine it's quite difficult to get two PCs to be in sync and play the same music in different rooms, whereas quite a few streaming solutions offer that.

 

[WishTree]

Are there any known sonic benefits with a streamer or is it only pure convenience? (assuming a DAC is put at the end of streamer vs computer to DAC)

 

[Covenanter]

This is a genuine enquiry so don't get upset! 🙂 Why would anybody want to either (a) play the same music at the same time in more than one room or (b) play different pieces of music in different rooms at the same time?

I'm just an old fogey but I tend to sit down to listen to music not move from room to room. (Actually as my apartment is a loft is basically only has one room anyway.) Are you guys skipping about from room to room all the time?

Chris

 

[The_Lhc]

Are there any known sonic benefits with a streamer or is it only pure convenience? (assuming a DAC is put at the end of streamer vs computer to DAC)

Beyond being bitperfect out of the box, unlike a PC, probably not.

 

[Overdose]

I had a netbook configured to be used as a streamer, it was remote controlled via an app. The software used was XBMC. This software can be used on any computer, making a laptop, netbook or small form factor PC an ideal media hub. Being a portable device does not mean that you have to carry it around with you, it can just sit there and be soley a streamer if you so wish and with such laptops being available for less than £300, they make a compelling case for dedicated streamers, particularly with enough HDD capacity to keep most people happy with music storage.

I don't have a dedicated disc player of any description, the Mac mini does just fine and if I want HD, I can just stream that via the Mac too. Obviously there are products that cater for people, who for whatever reason, want to have many different devices, but there are many capable one box solutions available now.

 

[Overdose]

Laptop or computer or iThing connected (wirelessly or otherwise) to a DAC. What else is needed?

In short, nothing.

 

[The_Lhc]

This is a genuine enquiry so don't get upset! 🙂 Why would anybody want to either (a) play the same music at the same time in more than one room

1) Parties, 2) doing stuff all over the house with music on in the background. 3) Deciding I want to sit in a different room (zone A playing, decide I want to move to zone B, group zone B to zone A zone B starts playing from the same point, move to zone B, drop zone A from group, zone B is now playing from exactly the same point). Ooh, forgot, 4) grouping for stereo pairs á la Play:3 or Play:5 stereo pairings.

or (b) play different pieces of music in different rooms at the same time?

1) I don't live alone and my other half has very different tastes in music to me.

(Actually as my apartment is a loft is basically only has one room anyway.)

I'm guessing you're not the target audience for multi-room system manufacturers then...

Are you guys skipping about from room to room all the time?

No, not all the time but often enough and the fact that the same remote can be used to control any of the systems in any room I happen to be in is a bonus as well.

 

[chebby]

Why would anybody want to either (a) play the same music at the same time in more than one room or (b) play different pieces of music in different rooms at the same time?

Absolutely. They should all listen to what I want, and all in the same room...

(Except for a woman operating a sensitive piece of electronic apparatus of course! What were they thinking of?)

 

[MajorFubar]

I did once consider buying a Sono 5, til I found out that unless you buy another it's mono. Looked at it and thought "what is this, 1950?"

 

[The_Lhc]

I did once consider buying a Sono 5, til I found out that unless you buy another it's mono.

That's not actually true, no more than it is for any other one box integrated "boombox" type player (such as the Zeppelin or any of that ilk).

 

[andyjm]

Chris,

I have a family of 5 and seven squeezeboxen (Transporter, 4 booms, 1 Touch, 1 Duet). The kids play their stuff on the booms in their rooms, I stream radio to the kitchen for the Mrs, Transporter in my listening room, Duet drives ceiling speakers in the master bathroom and a Touch for listening in my office.

All my music is in one place, no empty CD boxes (or worse, the wrong CD in the wrong box), nothing gets lost or scratched. I can sync all the players together for a party (which works fine contrary to the comments of the fanboys on the Sonos forum) or have them separate for individual listening.

I use an old clunker PC as a server and I run vortexbox as server software which is rock solid. It has been up now for over 7 months without a cough or splutter.

I would definitely recommend this for someone in my position.

Andy.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I did once consider buying a Sono 5, til I found out that unless you buy another it's mono. Looked at it and thought "what is this, 1950?"

The Sonos 5, now Play:5, is stereo, using a single low frequency unit, but separate mid and treble for each channel. The Play:3 is mono.

 

[Cypher]

The Denon Cocoon is also a nice option. Looks really good.

 

[professorhat]

This is a genuine enquiry so don't get upset! 🙂 Why would anybody want to either (a) play the same music at the same time in more than one room or (b) play different pieces of music in different rooms at the same time?

I'm just an old fogey but I tend to sit down to listen to music not move from room to room. (Actually as my apartment is a loft is basically only has one room anyway.) Are you guys skipping about from room to room all the time?

Chris

Not all the time, but sometimes. The multi room will be used this weekend when it's the OH's birthday - we've got 20 people cramming into our tiny flat, so I can stream the music into all the rooms so people can mill about rather than trying to get everyone into one room. It can also be used for more than just music e.g. I've got the analogue output of my Freeview box plugged into the Sonos in the living room and can therefore stream the audio from the TV into the kitchen. This means I can still hear what's happening if I go to get a drink / do some washing up simply by enabling it through my iPhone.

Could I live without this functionality? Of course I could, but it's a nice extra to have. As I've said, if you don't want to do these things, then by all means go with something that suits your requirements. But if you do want to, it's nice to have the choice to be able to.

 

[The_Lhc]

The Denon Cocoon is also a nice option. Looks really good.

Does it glow when you chuck it in the bath?

 

[Andrew Everard]

The Denon Cocoon is also a nice option. Looks really good.

Sounded good when I heard it at the D+M Group event a couple of months ago, but the sonic streaming star was the Marantz Consolette

 

[Covenanter]

Ok, it's very difficult to imagine other people's lifestyles! And I find it fascinating how technology is allowing people to live in different ways.

Actually we did (in the 1950s) gather round the "radiogram" to listen to music or indeed the radio. Until transistor radios came along equipment was very expensive and most homes only had one radio or radiogram. It was transistor radios and cheap record-players that kick-started the growth in popular music.

Chris

PS None of my CDs ever end up in the wrong cases! :rofl:

 

[MajorFubar]

The Play:3 is mono.

Maybe it was a 3 then, but I remember doing the sums and working out that I could buy something stereo which better suited my needs and still have money to spare. Horses for courses I guess.