lindsayt said:
The thread refers to high end speakers, so I assume Cno meant a pair of speakers.
The thread refers to high end speakers, so I assume Cno meant a pair of speakers.
DocG
Well-known member
DocG
Well-known member
Maybe a definition of 'high end' could be: "costing significantly more than I am willing to spend".
I'm going to put my neck on the line and suggest that 'high end' ranges from around £10k-£15k, and finishes around £25k-£30k - I personally think that diminishing returns kick in so hard after that, that it is no longer about which speaker is better, but simply which one is preferred - preference over reference!
That said I've never heard a pair of £200k Wilsons, or something of similar millionaire standing, so I could be wrong!
That said I've never heard a pair of £200k Wilsons, or something of similar millionaire standing, so I could be wrong!
lindsayt said:
I'm talking about speakers which are new....and ultra high end.
Here is a guide to some high end speakers according to Audio Federation: http://audiofederation.com/catalog/speakers/
Nb. I'm well aware, that for a couple of Shekels you can dig out some Monoliths from the Silurian Epoch, that can compete with anything I can come up with.
I think about £20k is about right as a definition for speakers being high end.
I think that a total system cost of more than £20k would also be a reasonable definition of high end.
That's high end by pricing. Which is a totally different kettle of fish to high end by sound quality.
Arthur Salvatore has some interesting thoughts and advice on high end speakers here: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Speakers.html
I think that a total system cost of more than £20k would also be a reasonable definition of high end.
That's high end by pricing. Which is a totally different kettle of fish to high end by sound quality.
Arthur Salvatore has some interesting thoughts and advice on high end speakers here: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Speakers.html
High end? Usually very high ticket priced items. There's one guy on the Hoffman forum that bangs on about the size of investment as being the be-all and end-all and it pretty much ticks a good few folks off. His take, the more you spend the better it gets. Not everyone agrees, but if you're spending $20,000 on a CD player, then yes, I think we're into high end territory. Or speakers costing over £100,000 and the like. Personally, if I'd spent that money, I'd make sure I heard a difference...
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I do think there is a point where it becomes obscene. Personally, even if I had buckets of money, I think a total of £5-6k should be plenty enough to get a more than capable enough system. Some of the stuff I see in some magazines makes me shudder - £75,000 monoblocs etc. Come on, let's get real, that is just ridiculous.
BigH
Well-known member
Did you see that $700,000 system on 6moons? Does not get rid of all the crackling on the LP though.
Benedict_Arnold said:plastic penguin said:
And your ears. If you're as deaf as a post, a 5 quid pair of speakers is a waste. If you have the ears of a symphony orchestra conductor a 5 grand pair can be inadequate.
And at the risk of offending the Kylie fans....
Very true, and money wasted if you think that MP3 is "good enough".
Broner
Well-known member
matt49
Well-known member
matthewpiano said:
Some people have 'obscene' wealth and will naturally look for 'obscene' ways to spend it. In this regard, hi-fi is no different from many other categories of spend: houses, cars, yachts, jewellery, fashion, food, wine etc etc. In all these categories there exists a 'high end' which is more about status than it is about the quality of the product. If we're going to be morally offended (and I'm not saying you're wrong to take offense, Matthew), then I'd have thought the proper target of our moral outrage should be the nature of our status-obsessed society, not the existence of high-end hi-fi.
Sorry if I've wandered off topic and onto dangerous ground.
Matt
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Chewy said:DocG said:I think at a certain point the line between '(Ultra) High End' and 'Oil Sheik Bling' gets really fuzzy. How about these: http://www.cinenow.co.uk/articles/24710-shape-audios-solid-gold-speakers?
:rofl: Brilliant - I'm not even convinced solid gold would make that good a material for a speakers cabinet, surely it resonates like a bell!! :wall:
Pure gold is probably the most malleable of all metals, with a Young’s Modulus of 79 GPa it most certainly will not ring like a bell! Gold is almost twice as heavy as lead and softer.
Covenanter
Well-known member
matt49 said:
Agree.
If you are a Premiership footballer getting £100k-£200k per week spending £20k on some speakers is petty cash!
Chris
proffski said:Chewy said:DocG said:I think at a certain point the line between '(Ultra) High End' and 'Oil Sheik Bling' gets really fuzzy. How about these: http://www.cinenow.co.uk/articles/24710-shape-audios-solid-gold-speakers?
:rofl: Brilliant - I'm not even convinced solid gold would make that good a material for a speakers cabinet, surely it resonates like a bell!! :wall:
Pure gold is probably the most malleable of all metals, with a Young’s Modulus of 79 GPa it most certainly will not ring like a bell! Gold is almost twice as heavy as lead and softer.
I stand corrected! :doh:
Budget = you can buy them at Currys / Comet / Amazon.com / etc. or mai order = Bestbuy (not Magnolia stores) in the US
Mid-range / value for money = you can buy them at most reputable high street hi-fi dealers, depending on their affiliations to particular brand or brands
High-end = your hifi dealer has to order them especially for you but you can probably buy a replacement pair next year
Exclusive = your hifi dealer might be able to get you a pair if you're lucky
Man U player's salary = stupidly expensive and looks are put above sound quality, bling to the power 10 (probably)
Stupid = as Man U player's salary with the bling to the power 10, plus the manufacturer probably won't be around next year to sell you a replacement pair
The governing factor on how much to spend on speakers isn't clear cut, but it's unlikely an expensive pair of speakers will sound any better than the originals hooked up to an inferior source. Contrary-wise a cheap pair of speakers will continue to sound like a cheap pair of speakers whatever they're hooked up to.
The guiding principle on what to buy depends first and foremost on what sort of speaker you want, e.g. floor standers, stand-mounts or bookshelf; secondly on what you can reasonably afford; and thirdly on how good your ears are. If in doubt take your hifi and old speakers along to your dealer and get him to put on a double blind test for you. If you can't hear a difference or don't like the sound move on. It might be that a new amp, source or just cables might yield more improvements than a new pair of speakers.
Mid-range / value for money = you can buy them at most reputable high street hi-fi dealers, depending on their affiliations to particular brand or brands
High-end = your hifi dealer has to order them especially for you but you can probably buy a replacement pair next year
Exclusive = your hifi dealer might be able to get you a pair if you're lucky
Man U player's salary = stupidly expensive and looks are put above sound quality, bling to the power 10 (probably)
Stupid = as Man U player's salary with the bling to the power 10, plus the manufacturer probably won't be around next year to sell you a replacement pair
The governing factor on how much to spend on speakers isn't clear cut, but it's unlikely an expensive pair of speakers will sound any better than the originals hooked up to an inferior source. Contrary-wise a cheap pair of speakers will continue to sound like a cheap pair of speakers whatever they're hooked up to.
The guiding principle on what to buy depends first and foremost on what sort of speaker you want, e.g. floor standers, stand-mounts or bookshelf; secondly on what you can reasonably afford; and thirdly on how good your ears are. If in doubt take your hifi and old speakers along to your dealer and get him to put on a double blind test for you. If you can't hear a difference or don't like the sound move on. It might be that a new amp, source or just cables might yield more improvements than a new pair of speakers.
Overdose
Well-known member
proffski said:Chewy said:DocG said:I think at a certain point the line between '(Ultra) High End' and 'Oil Sheik Bling' gets really fuzzy. How about these: http://www.cinenow.co.uk/articles/24710-shape-audios-solid-gold-speakers?
:rofl: Brilliant - I'm not even convinced solid gold would make that good a material for a speakers cabinet, surely it resonates like a bell!! :wall:
Pure gold is probably the most malleable of all metals, with a Young’s Modulus of 79 GPa it most certainly will not ring like a bell! Gold is almost twice as heavy as lead and softer.
[pedant mode on]
Lead is around 1.5 on the Mohs hardness scale and gold is around 2.5-3. The higher the number being the harder material, ie gold.
Gold has nearly twice the mass of lead.
[pedant mode off]
Overdose said:
Which is why people used to bite gold coins to check if they were genuine. If they mostly contained lead, they could be bitten, if gold, they could not.
manicm
Well-known member
It's all relative really. Take Cyrus's 30th Anniversary system - it's their flagship system and is complete bar speakers, and costs 17k. A Linn Klimax DS streamer alone costs >12k. (And some were complaining about Krell's new streamer which has no DAC in the 2.5k version).
How high or how low do you want to go?
How high or how low do you want to go?
manicm said:
Personally, and for other mere mortals who don't play for Man U, I would say between half and a full week's pay per box (or pair of boxes in the case of speakers) is a good benchmark for value for money. The more you earn the more you can afford to spend, unless you live eat and breathe hifi, when I'd up the ante to what you are prepared to pay for a half-decent used family (i.e. not a Rolls) car. JMHO naturally.
I think the term has to attach to expensive speakers that are justifiably expensive in performance terms. On that basis I'd include great speakers from 5-15k. Above that is more b***end than high end.
steve_1979
Well-known member
Jame5 said:
+1
I agree. For high end sound quality you only need to spend a maximum of around £5-15K. Anything over £20K is just overpriced hifi jewellry IMO.
steve_1979 said:
Totally disagree.
The best speakers I have heard are the B&W 800D. They may cost a lot more than the material cost, but quality wise, fantastic.
*although they are a fraction under 20K
(And I imagine they would be mindblowing if they did an active version!)
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