http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)chebby said:I'm sorry, it was the wide eyed "I only want to learn"/'butter wouldn't melt' tone in your post that cracked me up. It was sooo Max.
Maybe I was wrong about the rota.
League table is probably more like it. Winners get more 'cuddles' from Ashley?
No. It's a discription of Chebby's behaviour in all of my threads.BenLaw said:Is that a confession?steve_1979 said:
I agree with this and don't see how anything can constructively be added. Anything further will either be a rephrasing or attempts at agitation.matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
+1matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
So basically you're saying it's all about having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable?matthewpiano said:To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
That's not what he said. He didn't say it's all about having low distortion.steve_1979 said:+1matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
Is there any chance the forum modorator could tidy this thread up a bit please? I would like to keep this constructive and friendly.
So basically you're saying it's all about having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable?matthewpiano said:To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
Mods - Thread purged of off-topic comments from both sides. Let's play nicely!
No, we don't....chebby said:Do you and Max have a rota?steve_1979 said:This thread honestly has nothing to do with AVI forums. I'm just interest in learning about synergy.
What I said was that synergy is about how well your components work together, but depending on whether you are more interested in low distortion or a particular type of coloured sound, the concept of 'good' synergy is something of a moveable feast.BenLaw said:That's not what he said. He didn't say it's all about having low distortion.steve_1979 said:+1matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
Is there any chance the forum modorator could tidy this thread up a bit please? I would like to keep this constructive and friendly.
So basically you're saying it's all about having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable?matthewpiano said:To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
Mods - Thread purged of off-topic comments from both sides. Let's play nicely!
You were perfectly clear the first time. The only explanation is that Steve was deliberately misunderstanding you.matthewpiano said:What I said was that synergy is about how well your components work together, but depending on whether you are more interested in low distortion or a particular type of coloured sound, the concept of 'good' synergy is something of a moveable feast.BenLaw said:That's not what he said. He didn't say it's all about having low distortion.steve_1979 said:+1matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
Is there any chance the forum modorator could tidy this thread up a bit please? I would like to keep this constructive and friendly.
So basically you're saying it's all about having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable?matthewpiano said:To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
Mods - Thread purged of off-topic comments from both sides. Let's play nicely!
Awww pizza in the oven a few cans in the fridge, settling in on a sunday night, never mind.steve_1979 said:+1matthewpiano said:It would be a good idea to keep this thread on topic. It is an interesting topic after all, so lets not have it end up in a blood bath. The forum has been a more pleasant place in the last week and it would be a shame for that to change.
Is there any chance the forum modorator could tidy this thread up a bit please? I would like to keep this constructive and friendly.
So basically you're saying it's all about having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable?matthewpiano said:To me synergy is about having a combination of components that work well with each other to produce a pleasing sound. Whether your own definition of pleasing sound is a low distortion sound or a more coloured sound is really irrelevant to the definition.
On a simple level synergy, IME, covers the ability of the amplifier to efficiently drive the chosen speakers amongst other things.
Mods - Thread purged of off-topic comments from both sides. Let's play nicely!
Sorry I should have explaned what I ment a bit more clearly.matthewpiano said:What I said was that synergy is about how well your components work together, but depending on whether you are more interested in low distortion or a particular type of coloured sound, the concept of 'good' synergy is something of a moveable feast.
Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.steve_1979 said:Sorry I should have explaned what I ment a bit more clearly.matthewpiano said:What I said was that synergy is about how well your components work together, but depending on whether you are more interested in low distortion or a particular type of coloured sound, the concept of 'good' synergy is something of a moveable feast.
I was refering to tone and distortion as two seperate things. By distortion I was refering to sounds such as clipping or limited dynamic range. Tone isn't really the same as other distortions though because some people prefer listening music using a system that has a different tonal character. For example I personally like a neutral sound most of the time but sometimes I prefer a warm sound.
This is why I ask the question "is good synergy mean having low distortion matched with a tonal character that you find favourable"
Does this mean that you can take any system that doesn't have any obvious distortion (such as clipping) and use a graphic equalizer to adjust the tonal character until it has synergy?matthewpiano said:Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.
Any preferred tonal character can, of course, be seen as a form of distortion if it isn't true to the original recording. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal thing, but I'm not sure how you can have low distortion AND a tonal character that is superimposed on to the music by the equipment.
No. Like I said, depending on how you view hi-fi and the whole subjective/objective debate, 'good' synergy is a somewhat fluid concept. You can either view it as a question of whether the components chosen work well together electrically OR you can view synergy as a form of black magic that encapsulates the ability to combine components so that the whole performs above the sum of its parts. This may include the introduction of tonal aberrations, depending on your personal view of what makes a good sound.steve_1979 said:Does this mean that you can take any system that doesn't have any obvious distortion (such as clipping) and use a graphic equalizer to adjust the tonal character until it has synergy?matthewpiano said:Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.
Any preferred tonal character can, of course, be seen as a form of distortion if it isn't true to the original recording. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal thing, but I'm not sure how you can have low distortion AND a tonal character that is superimposed on to the music by the equipment.
If this isn't right why is it not right?
While there may be no obvious technical explanation why certain components sound good together there must still be some logical scientic reason for why this happens. What I'm interested in undertanding what this technical explanation could be.Electro said:My interpretation of equipment synergy is when two components are put together in a system and for no obvious reason they perform much better than would be expected when they are combined but without any real technical explanation as to why.
I agree that certain combinations of equipment can sound very good. What specifically about this sound is 'magical' though? Could it just be low distortion combined with a tonal character that the listener likes or is there some other quality?Electro said:It does not happen that often but when it does it could be described as "magical" for want of a better description![]()
Great post, MP..matthewpiano said:No. Like I said, depending on how you view hi-fi and the whole subjective/objective debate, 'good' synergy is a somewhat fluid concept. You can either view it as a question of whether the components chosen work well together electrically OR you can view synergy as a form of black magic that encapsulates the ability to combine components so that the whole performs above the sum of its parts. This may include the introduction of tonal aberrations, depending on your personal view of what makes a good sound.steve_1979 said:Does this mean that you can take any system that doesn't have any obvious distortion (such as clipping) and use a graphic equalizer to adjust the tonal character until it has synergy?matthewpiano said:Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.
Any preferred tonal character can, of course, be seen as a form of distortion if it isn't true to the original recording. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal thing, but I'm not sure how you can have low distortion AND a tonal character that is superimposed on to the music by the equipment.
If this isn't right why is it not right?
I'm not stating where my views sit here, merely outlining the fact that so much of this is down to semantics and the context of an individual's overall approach to hi-fi. As such there is no chance that everybody will ever agree on this matter and there has to be some acceptance that 'good' synergy is impossible to define universally.
So if it's not just a case of tonal character and low distortion what else is there?matthewpiano said:No. Like I said, depending on how you view hi-fi and the whole subjective/objective debate, 'good' synergy is a somewhat fluid concept. You can either view it as a question of whether the components chosen work well together electrically OR you can view synergy as a form of black magic that encapsulates the ability to combine components so that the whole performs above the sum of its parts. This may include the introduction of tonal aberrations, depending on your personal view of what makes a good sound.steve_1979 said:Does this mean that you can take any system that doesn't have any obvious distortion (such as clipping) and use a graphic equalizer to adjust the tonal character until it has synergy?matthewpiano said:Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.
Any preferred tonal character can, of course, be seen as a form of distortion if it isn't true to the original recording. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal thing, but I'm not sure how you can have low distortion AND a tonal character that is superimposed on to the music by the equipment.
If this isn't right why is it not right?
I'm not stating where my views sit here, merely outlining the fact that so much of this is down to semantics and the context of an individual's overall approach to hi-fi. As such there is no chance that everybody will ever agree on this matter and there has to be some acceptance that 'good' synergy is impossible to define universally.
If I new the answer to that question I would be far wealthier person that I amsteve_1979 said:While there may be no obvious technical explanation why certain components sound good together there must still be some logical scientic reason for why this happens. What I'm interested in undertanding what this technical explanation could be.Electro said:My interpretation of equipment synergy is when two components are put together in a system and for no obvious reason they perform much better than would be expected when they are combined but without any real technical explanation as to why.
I agree that certain combinations of equipment can sound very good. What specifically about this sound is 'magical' though? Could it just be low distortion combined with a tonal character that the listener likes or is there some other quality?Electro said:It does not happen that often but when it does it could be described as "magical" for want of a better description![]()
Yes.John Duncan said:Steve, do you agree that one of the advantages of active speakers is that the manufacturer can closely match the characteristics of an amplifier with the speaker?
Ultimately I think that IS the crux of synergy. You are defining what synergy is about, I am going one step further and outlining how hard it is to make a universal value judgement as to what 'good' synergy is.steve_1979 said:So if it's not just a case of tonal character and low distortion what else is there?matthewpiano said:No. Like I said, depending on how you view hi-fi and the whole subjective/objective debate, 'good' synergy is a somewhat fluid concept. You can either view it as a question of whether the components chosen work well together electrically OR you can view synergy as a form of black magic that encapsulates the ability to combine components so that the whole performs above the sum of its parts. This may include the introduction of tonal aberrations, depending on your personal view of what makes a good sound.steve_1979 said:Does this mean that you can take any system that doesn't have any obvious distortion (such as clipping) and use a graphic equalizer to adjust the tonal character until it has synergy?matthewpiano said:Clipping is an obvious distortion and I think modern hi-fi equipment is at the stage where, unless the user abuses the equipment at unsuitable volume levels, it isn't a major issue. To me these obvious distortions are more about the suitability of the chosen equipment for its intended use.
Any preferred tonal character can, of course, be seen as a form of distortion if it isn't true to the original recording. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal thing, but I'm not sure how you can have low distortion AND a tonal character that is superimposed on to the music by the equipment.
If this isn't right why is it not right?
I'm not stating where my views sit here, merely outlining the fact that so much of this is down to semantics and the context of an individual's overall approach to hi-fi. As such there is no chance that everybody will ever agree on this matter and there has to be some acceptance that 'good' synergy is impossible to define universally.