What do I need?

[Gareth82]

Hi PP, like you,i too have been looking at getting a streaming type of option for my HI Fi and there is quiet alot of different options to choose, but i wanted to share with you another option that you could consider which is something i have been experimenting with at the moment which i got the idea of when ''The Record Spot'' suggested something to me.

I have got a external hard drive attatched to my Sony Blu Ray player which has got some music on it. I have then attatched the Analog out puts to my A65 and hey presto, the music on the hard drive plays through the blu ray and then my Arcam with pritty good quality. It even uses my TV as a nice big display with all the needed information i.e. Artist, Track title etc... (just need to figure out how to get album art displayed), I'm sure that if i added a Dac and then connected the Blu Ray by Coax to it the sound would improve even more.

I know that this option isn't as 'classy' as a streamer and i haven't figured out how to get album art but, if you was to go with this idea you wouldn't have to worry about losing quality in streaming music as it would all be stored on your hard drive at the highest quality and wouldn't suffer from any problems like 'drop outs' etc as it is all purely digital and would be 'hard wired'. It's basically the same sort of way as using a laptop for music play back but using the blu ray instead.

Hope that has given you another option to think about.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi PP, like you,i too have been looking at getting a streaming type of option for my HI Fi and there is quiet alot of different options to choose, but i wanted to share with you another option that you could consider which is something i have been experimenting with at the moment which i got the idea of when ''The Record Spot'' suggested something to me.

I have got a external hard drive attatched to my Sony Blu Ray player which has got some music on it. I have then attatched the Analog out puts to my A65 and hey presto, the music on the hard drive plays through the blu ray and then my Arcam with pritty good quality. It even uses my TV as a nice big display with all the needed information i.e. Artist, Track title etc... (just need to figure out how to get album art displayed), I'm sure that if i added a Dac and then connected the Blu Ray by Coax to it the sound would improve even more.

I know that this option isn't as 'classy' as a streamer and i haven't figured out how to get album art but, if you was to go with this idea you wouldn't have to worry about losing quality in streaming music as it would all be stored on your hard drive at the highest quality and wouldn't suffer from any problems like 'drop outs' etc as it is all purely digital and would be 'hard wired'. It's basically the same sort of way as using a laptop for music play back but using the blu ray instead.

Hope that has given you another option to think about.

Thanks, Gareth. The biggest issue is how do I get the music in the first place from the PC, which is located in the bedroom. I've been pondering a couple of different options but won't until I physically try it.

I'll keep posted.

Cheers, pp

 

[jovend]

Hi PP,

Sell all the boxes

and get an Oppo 95. Best of both world in terms of audio and video capabilities...top of the line DAC, plays

SACD/CD/DV-A et al, future proof 3D, streamer ,wireless/ethernet etc. etc. & etc...

 

[chebby]

Clearly something has to be done curtail my collection (storage terms). It'll happen sooner or later...

How many CDs do you have? How many are you really ever going to want to play again? (So much so, that you are prepared to sacrifice household space to it's storage long term.) How serious is the storage problem?

It seems to me - from what you've witten so far - that this needs addressing (and action taken) before you even think about ripping CDs or buying any new hardware/software.

Will you have the room (attic, spare room, garage, shed, 'offsite' storage etc.) to store all the physical media away safely and securely after you've ripped it? (Legally, you have to keep any CDs you rip to other digital media.)

Then there are the LPs. Any plans to 'rip' those and store them away too?

With what you have decided to keep (and rip to hard-drive/NAS), have you planned for the time you will need to devote to doing so? (It might only be a few minutes for each album, but you still need to organise it all and deal with artwork etc. and if you are talking about thousands of CDs then you need to put time aside and be organised.) Have you decided which format to use?

You mentioned something about not wanting to get rid of your youth by parting with some of this music. What percentage of your collection are you hanging onto out of sentiment and - of that - how much will you still play?

 

[CnoEvil]

Clearly something has to be done curtail my collection (storage terms). It'll happen sooner or later...

How many CDs do you have? How many are you really ever going to want to play again? (So much so, that you are prepared to sacrifice household space to it's storage long term.) How serious is the storage problem?

It seems to me - from what you've witten so far - that this needs addressing (and action taken) before you even think about ripping CDs or buying any new hardware/software.

Will you have the room (attic, spare room, garage, shed, 'offsite' storage etc.) to store all the physical media away safely and securely after you've ripped it? (Legally, you have to keep any CDs you rip to other digital media.)

Then there are the LPs. Any plans to 'rip' those and store them away too?

With what you have decided to keep (and rip to hard-drive/NAS), have you planned for the time you will need to devote to doing so? (It might only be a few minutes for each album, but you still need to organise it all and deal with artwork etc. and if you are talking about thousands of CDs then you need to put time aside and be organised.) Have you decided which format to use?

You mentioned something about not wanting to get rid of your youth by parting with some of this music. What percentage of your collection are you hanging onto out of sentiment and - of that - how much will you still play?

Careful, you'll frighten the rabbit (Penguin) back into its burrow...... can a Penguin fit in a burrow? :?

 

[plastic penguin]

Clearly something has to be done curtail my collection (storage terms). It'll happen sooner or later...

How many CDs do you have? How many are you really ever going to want to play again? (So much so, that you are prepared to sacrifice household space to it's storage long term.) How serious is the storage problem?

It seems to me - from what you've witten so far - that this needs addressing (and action taken) before you even think about ripping CDs or buying any new hardware/software.

Will you have the room (attic, spare room, garage, shed, 'offsite' storage etc.) to store all the physical media away safely and securely after you've ripped it? (Legally, you have to keep any CDs you rip to other digital media.)

Then there are the LPs. Any plans to 'rip' those and store them away too?

With what you have decided to keep (and rip to hard-drive/NAS), have you planned for the time you will need to devote to doing so? (It might only be a few minutes for each album, but you still need to organise it all and deal with artwork etc. and if you are talking about thousands of CDs then you need to put time aside and be organised.) Have you decided which format to use?

You mentioned something about not wanting to get rid of your youth by parting with some of this music. What percentage of your collection are you hanging onto out of sentiment and - of that - how much will you still play?

Yeah, loft space is an option for cds after a mass clear-out of hi-fi gear that's no longer usable. I have around 2,000 cds, so if I just rip 10% of my collection it would make a difference - big difference, in fact.

How long would it take to rip around 200 albums? (approx)

 

[John Duncan]

I just imported a 47m 26s album to apple lossless using iTunes with error correction on, and it took 3 minutes and 3 seconds.

 

[chebby]

I have around 2,000 cds,

Ok. So if (for instance) you played 2 different CDs per day, 5 days per week, then you have enough CDs to last almost 4 years (without playing the same CD twice in that 4 years.)

Add on the time to play all the LPs and dvds and what would that come to? (If no repeat plays.)

Then you probably like some radio now and then. (And some terrestrial TV viewing.)

Realistically, everyone likes to play favourite stuff more often than every 4 years, so that means you probably have stuff you may not play more than once or twice in a decade. Some you may never listen to/watch again if the 'collection' is big enough.

That's the logic I would start with when trimming it all down. (Unless you are planning to spend your retirement just 'catching up' with your media or intend to start an archive.)

This doesn't allow for any new stuff you will add in future.

 

[cse]

Why don't you buy the Brennan and either keep your speakers and amp, or sell them on and either forget an amp altogether (as the Brennan has one)and purchase somr new speakers?

 

[Gareth82]

Hi PP, what you would have to do is first rip your CD's to your PC (using whichever software you choose), then attatch a portable or desk top external hard drive (whichever you choose to buy) to your PC and transfer the ripped folders over to the hard drive. you would then just have to take the external hard drive downstairs and plug it into your Blu ray player/media player.

I have been experimenting this with 320kps rips and the sound quality is good, and that's even before i have added an external Dac. I understand that having music playback this way isn't to everyone's taste, but as The Limey said previously, some of these streamer systems are over priced and can pritty much do what you can through pc based music but at a cheaper more reliable price.

If you are only looking at Digital based music for one room then the way i have explained is cheap, you can buy a 2TB hard drive for about £80.00, and if you already have a Blu Ray player capable of usb playback, the only extra box you would have is a small hard drive (which can be hidden away) and possibly a external Dac (which are quiet small compact units now days). You can even buy a USB Turntable from Maplins for £60.00 so you can convert all of your Vinyl to Digital music

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ion-quick-play-flash-usb-powered-vinyl-to-usb-turntable-527070

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi PP, what you would have to do is first rip your CD's to your PC (using whichever software you choose), then attatch a portable or desk top external hard drive (whichever you choose to buy) to your PC and transfer the ripped folders over to the hard drive. you would then just have to take the external hard drive downstairs and plug it into your Blu ray player/media player.

I have been experimenting this with 320kps rips and the sound quality is good, and that's even before i have added an external Dac. I understand that having music playback this way isn't to everyone's taste, but as The Limey said previously, some of these streamer systems are over priced and can pritty much do what you can through pc based music but at a cheaper more reliable price.

If you are only looking at Digital based music for one room then the way i have explained is cheap, you can buy a 2TB hard drive for about £80.00, and if you already have a Blu Ray player capable of usb playback, the only extra box you would have is a small hard drive (which can be hidden away) and possibly a external Dac (which are quiet small compact units now days). You can even buy a USB Turntable from Maplins for £60.00 so you can convert all of your Vinyl to Digital music

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ion-quick-play-flash-usb-powered-vinyl-to-usb-turntable-527070

Certainly sounds good. I've read your post a couple of times today, and it all fits into a logical sequence. The only concern I have is the USB turntable from Maps. Not sure it'll give me the quality I have at the mo. Could be very wrong though.

Thanks, Gareth.

 

[Gareth82]

There are other Turntables and PC softeware you can get which may give you better quality rips of your vinyl, i just thought i'd throw you the link in there so you would know that there is a way to get your beloved vinyl into digital format, after all, vinyl is very much a collectors item now days and it would seem a shame for them to go into storage with your CDs and forgotten about with you thinking you couldn't rip them to your PC for digital use.

The thing is that streamers are all the rage at the moment and every major Hi Fi brand is making them now, some are good and some are not good but some of them are just over priced for what they do. I think if your not interested in streaming and just want pure digital music then your best to stick with PC based music. I think it is the best for quality and reliability. You may or may not choose to use the Blu Ray/Media player and hard drive way i suggested but i hope it has helped you realise that there are many ways to acheive digital playback and streamers although good, are not always the best way to go.

Hope i have helped you out, i too i'm new to digital playback and i have had many hours searching the net and asking people questions to find out about it. It can be quiet a mindfield and is even harder if you don't know much about computers so it does take quiet alot of advice and research to pick the best digital path that suits you and your needs.

 

[plastic penguin]

There are other Turntables and PC softeware you can get which may give you better quality rips of your vinyl, i just thought i'd throw you the link in there so you would know that there is a way to get your beloved vinyl into digital format, after all, vinyl is very much a collectors item now days and it would seem a shame for them to go into storage with your CDs and forgotten about with you thinking you couldn't rip them to your PC for digital use.

The thing is that streamers are all the rage at the moment and every major Hi Fi brand is making them now, some are good and some are not good but some of them are just over priced for what they do. I think if your not interested in streaming and just want pure digital music then your best to stick with PC based music. I think it is the best for quality and reliability. You may or may not choose to use the Blu Ray/Media player and hard drive way i suggested but i hope it has helped you realise that there are many ways to acheive digital playback and streamers although good, are not always the best way to go.

Hope i have helped you out, i too i'm new to digital playback and i have had many hours searching the net and asking people questions to find out about it. It can be quiet a mindfield and is even harder if you don't know much about computers so it does take quiet alot of advice and research to pick the best digital path that suits you and your needs.

Fully understand there are better USB TTs out there. I would be looking at a dedicated, conventional TT, such as ClearAudio or Roksan Radius - this won't happen, however, for some time yet. Having said that, I'm taking many positives from your recommendations, but it won't happen overnight.

Cheers.

 

[Gareth82]

Glad i could help, obviously i know it may take some time for you to get the result with digital music that you desire as it will take time and money to purchase all of the equipment and abit of experimenting.

I am looking at getting a Dac to go with my setup and would love to buy one now, but i doubt funds won't be available untill in the new year so will keep you updated with how it all goes etc...

I think you have chosen the right time to embrace Digital Music as it seems to be all the rage now and more and more brands are stepping into it and it looks like it will be around for a long time to come.

 

[Cass]

Will you have the room (attic, spare room, garage, shed, 'offsite' storage etc.) to store all the physical media away safely and securely after you've ripped it? (Legally, you have to keep any CDs you rip to other digital media.)

Ripping CDs is still illegal in the UK, full stop.

 

[chebby]

Ripping CDs is still illegal in the UK, full stop.

Not for long.

 

[plastic penguin]

An early start for me this morning...

Something has been gnawing away at for the past couple of days, and I'm hoping for some reassurance.

I know I've virtually no experience of DACs - heard the DacMagic around Gerrardasnails place last year - but my fear (and it is real trepidation - no histrionics) is the SQ won't be as good as a very high quality CDP.

The last couple of days I've read pieces from WHFI mag - including BQ a few months ago regarding the differences in DACs. In addition, I've read the review for the Audiolab 8200 when the reviewers commented: "a WAV file fed from a laptop sounds very close to the same track played from CD."

Bringing it back to my little world, this morning I was comparing Freeview (I know it's a cardinal faux pas) with my old Marantz tuner. I keep banging on about the old crock but it really is a wonderful sounding tuner. Anyhow, these are my findings, which I've written down.

Freeview (via standard TV interconnects direct to the amp) and listening to 'Absolute Radio': Good clarity; sibilance; mechanical sounding; good bass definition and detail.

Marantz tuner, connected by standard Marantz interconnects and listening to the same radio station: Natural soundstage; convincing overall presentation; detail levels no better but does sound attached to the rest of frequency...

Although the difference ISN'T 'night and day', it is very noticable. The picture doesn't improved significantly if I switch the Freeview to the BBC stations, although the SQ is upped slightly.

Going back to my initial (and only experience of DACs) impressions at Gerrard's: Yes I was taken when he connected up the CD73. There was quite a big difference, but now, with the benefit of hindsight (I was only at Gerrard's for about 90 mins) and over a long haul, I'm concerned that if a DAC doesn't live up to my expectation it may grate on me.

I'm hoping someone can convince me that my hypothesis on DACs is a load of old 'Pony' and that it can give me the sound I'm looking for, and it won't reflect all my experiences between FM tuner and Freeview.

Yours hopefully, pp

 

[Crocodile]

I'm hoping someone can convince me that my hypothesis on DACs is a load of old 'Pony' and that it can give me the sound I'm looking for, and it won't reflect all my experiences between FM tuner and Freeview.

Yours hopefully, pp

Not really an accurate comparison because the Freeview is still highly compressed. Not as much so as DAB in many cases but compressed all the same. I also doubt that the DAC in your TV/Freeview box has any audiophile asperations. It's nothing to do with digital per se. All you've done is the equivilent of comparing a decent turntable with a supermarket DVD player playing a low bitrate MP3. 😉

Feed a DAC with losslessly compressed files & there's no reason that it can't sound identical to the original. And the key here is lossless which DAB & Freeview certainly aren't.

Just as the DACs built into CDPs sound different, so will standalone DACs. You just have to choose the one you like the sound of in exactly the same way as you'd choose a CDP. In fact you could easily try this yourself by simply buying one of the highly regarded budget DACs (Beresford or Cambridge) used & try it out with your PCs USB. You may need to make sure that the USB output is bit-perfect by installing ASIO drivers on the PC but other can probably advise on that as I don't do it. You then simply resell for virtually what you paid.

As the Meerkat says -Simples!

Edit

In fact to keep things even more simple, you can ignore the PC for now & just connect your CDP to the DAC. The Beresford Caiman has a variable output so you can even match the levels to your CDP & AB test/compare with a simple press of the amp's remote.

 

[chebby]

PP, reading between the lines, I think your last post looks like your graceful exit from the whole issue of DACs/computer based audio/streaming etc.

If so, it's probably a good thing.

You are only going to agonise for months over all the various ways in which you can enjoy non-CD digital audio and put a thousand obstacles in the way of actually trying it.

Yes, I know you said you have a space issue. Maybe you can get a nearby relative or friend to store your least used discs and LPs.

Better than gnawing off a limb in anxiety over all this computer based audio/streaming stuff. I don't think you'll ever really let yourself like it.

 

[plastic penguin]

Understand what your saying, but I certainly won't let this technology beat me. I've just emailed the bro-in-law and asked him how he receives music files, cause he never buys CDs. Like JD he works as IT boffin (works for Sky TV an IT manager), but the only snag is his wife is due to give birth on the 26th of this month. I'll give him a few weeks to settle with the little'un.

The only reason why I haven't asked him before is because he isn't that into music. In fact, over the years, can't remember playing any music through his surround sound system.

Won't pester you guys on this subject anymore.

Thanks for all your help

pp