Wharfedale diamond 220 disapointing

[Deleted member 108165]

In another thread I think Matthew said try MA BX2's with the Marantz. MA's divide opinion on here but I had them connected to my previous PM/CD6004 and I liked them, (but it still didn't stop me changing them after 6 months when i got bitten by the upgraditis bug). Dali's are also rated highly with the Marantz.

Personally I've found that price matching the individual pieces of kit can bring good results. In your case that would be: £300 amp, £300 CDP, = £300 spend on speakers. Used speakers may also be an option for you.

Forget about cables for the moment as they are not going to make any major changes to the way your sytem sounds. I maintain that speakers are the main area where changes make a large noticeable difference.

 

[ID.]

I agree with mathewpiano and others who suggest you live with your system for a while and get to know it. Then, once you have a better idea of exactly what you want to achieve, save up for s significant upgrade and be sure to audition thoroughly.

As for mediocre, knowing the little i do of davedotco, he was judging budget speakers as a while against his experiences of a wide range of very good (and very expensive) speakers. Sure, budget speakers may be good for the price, but they will always have many compromises so you would basically be trading one compromise for another. I know, nobody likes being told that their entry level kit that they lovingly chose and enjoy is mediocre, and I sometimes see the same kind of people expressing an opinion that betrays a lack of experience of better kit or lack of imagination that anything could improve on their much loved budget kit, but really, compared to what's out there it could be classed as mediocre, or at least the easier to digest, good, for the price. Which is, by the way, how WHF reviews - based on how good it is against competitors in the same price bracket.

You are comparing the speakers against even worse speakers so of course you won't think they are mediocre.

Oh, and enough about the constant cable comments as if some budget cables have lifted your kit to a whole new level.

As you well know, most budget kit is really not very good. It may be hyped for commercial reasons but it is all part of the 'race to the bottom' that is so self evident in hi-fi, particularly in the british market.

Here the focus is on brand names and 'reputation', most of the manufacturing cost of budget gear is fancy casework, 'bling' if you like, and the retail pricing is mostly marketing costs. Like cheap wine, the actual cost of the things that really matter are just pennies.

Sure I might use more expensive products as a reference but when you look at what can be done for a few hundred pounds if you 'think outside the box' it shows what a waste of money most budget equipment actually is, performance wise anyway.

Personally I don't think it's as bad as you make out and living room friendly kit is worth a premium for most.

With my experience now, if I were starting again back where I was 5 or so years ago I'd probably have gone in a completely different direction and started with active monitors.

 

[gasolin]

In another thread I think Matthew said try MA BX2's with the Marantz. MA's divide opinion on here but I had them connected to my previous PM/CD6004 and I liked them, (but it still didn't stop me changing them after 6 months when i got bitten by the upgraditis bug). Dali's are also rated highly with the Marantz.

Personally I've found that price matching the individual pieces of kit can bring good results. In your case that would be: £300 amp, £300 CDP, = £300 spend on speakers. Used speakers may also be an option for you.

Forget about cables for the moment as they are not going to make any major changes to the way your sytem sounds. I maintain that speakers are the main area where changes make a large noticeable difference.

I remember in the days where ma bx2's where one of the best budget speakers, that someone found the combination of marantz PM6005 and ma bx2's to be very bright, which i do not at all want, having to turn down the treble with the eq/tone control on the amp i especillay don't like, since it indicates a sound fare from neutral and alots of listening fattigue, i very often connect bright sounding speakers with alot of fattigue sound, that's why i haven't as a first upgrade to my bostons, have bought dali zensor 3 that whathifi in the marantz PM6005 review say is a good combination (found the thread/topic)

Why can't i search for threads/topics on whathifi, i had to use google to do that?

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/monitor-audio-bronze-bx2-sound-too-brightt

 

[davedotco]

I agree with mathewpiano and others who suggest you live with your system for a while and get to know it. Then, once you have a better idea of exactly what you want to achieve, save up for s significant upgrade and be sure to audition thoroughly.

As for mediocre, knowing the little i do of davedotco, he was judging budget speakers as a while against his experiences of a wide range of very good (and very expensive) speakers. Sure, budget speakers may be good for the price, but they will always have many compromises so you would basically be trading one compromise for another. I know, nobody likes being told that their entry level kit that they lovingly chose and enjoy is mediocre, and I sometimes see the same kind of people expressing an opinion that betrays a lack of experience of better kit or lack of imagination that anything could improve on their much loved budget kit, but really, compared to what's out there it could be classed as mediocre, or at least the easier to digest, good, for the price. Which is, by the way, how WHF reviews - based on how good it is against competitors in the same price bracket.

You are comparing the speakers against even worse speakers so of course you won't think they are mediocre.

Oh, and enough about the constant cable comments as if some budget cables have lifted your kit to a whole new level.

As you well know, most budget kit is really not very good. It may be hyped for commercial reasons but it is all part of the 'race to the bottom' that is so self evident in hi-fi, particularly in the british market.

Here the focus is on brand names and 'reputation', most of the manufacturing cost of budget gear is fancy casework, 'bling' if you like, and the retail pricing is mostly marketing costs. Like cheap wine, the actual cost of the things that really matter are just pennies.

Sure I might use more expensive products as a reference but when you look at what can be done for a few hundred pounds if you 'think outside the box' it shows what a waste of money most budget equipment actually is, performance wise anyway.

Personally I don't think it's as bad as you make out and living room friendly kit is worth a premium for most.

With my experience now, if I were starting again back where I was 5 or so years ago I'd probably have gone in a completely different direction and started with active monitors.

As in no obvious distortion maybe, and there are a few decent examples of budget kit if you avoid the obvious hype (mathewpiano can advise here) but in the main it's music centre standard.

I appreciate that buyers need to make the first step and that often funds are limited but the emphasis on 'branding' and 'best buys' leads a lot of first time buyers astray, if you hear some of the rubbish I get played from time to time, you would probably agree.

Mostly of course this really doesn't matter so long as the buyer is happy but a lot clearly are not and as this is supposedly a hi-fi forum I shall continue to call it as I see (hear?) it.

 

[matthewpiano]

There is a lot of hype about some budget hi-fi, and some of it does indeed fall short as I know from experience.

 

[gasolin]

should make a tread/topic about budget hifi that actually sounds good and not just are budget amp,cd,speaker.... of the year and asume it's good, budget hifi shouldn't always sound bright and bassy http://www.planetofsoundonline.com/pages/why-is-my-system-hurting-my-ears

 

[davedotco]

Most budget hi-fi is compromised by price, particularly amplifiers. There are some brilliant bargains to be had, the budget Denon PMAs are ridiculously good for little more than a good night out, but they are the exception in my experience and they do have their limitations. For me, really good budget amps start at about £600.

Add a pair of speaker, cables and stands and you are looking at about £1k minimum for amp and speakers, entry level for what I consider to be 'proper' budget hi-fi.

It also explains why I consider active speakers to be so much better value once the price drops significantly below the £1k level, they are not going to suit every system, but anyone using, say, just a computer or an iThing should really be looking in this direction.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I remember in the days where ma bx2's where one of the best budget speakers, that someone found the combination of marantz PM6005 and ma bx2's to be very bright, which i do not at all want, having to turn down the treble with the eq/tone control on the amp i especillay don't like, since it indicates a sound fare from neutral and alots of listening fattigue, i very often connect bright sounding speakers with alot of fattigue sound, that's why i haven't as a first upgrade to my bostons, have bought dali zensor 3 that whathifi in the marantz PM6005 review say is a good combination (found the thread/topic)

Why can't i search for threads/topics on whathifi, i had to use google to do that?

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/monitor-audio-bronze-bx2-sound-too-brightt

As I said Monitor Audio splits opinion, always has, always will. So you have tried: MA, Dali and Wharfedale and none work for you, so move on. However, you sir, are spending far too much time reading reviews about speakers and then on that basis purchasing ones that get good reviews. All you will get on forums and reviews are other peoples views, not your views. Try to get out to some dealers and audition some instead, when you find one you like see if the dealer will allow you to trial them at home. This is the only way that you will get eventual satisfaction. Ditch the exotic interconnects and cables and spend the money on speakers instead!

 

[ID.]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

 

[lpv]

Gasolin, you now have a well balanced budget system. I would suggest spending some time really getting to know it, enjoying your music. Only then will you really be in the right place to work out your next move.

One thing to bear in mind is that no system can make every recording sound great. Unless you want to put the sound quality before the music (not what I would do, but some do take this approach), you sometimes have to accept that you will have to make do with less than pristine sound on certain recordings.

Hi Matthew.. Alloha !!!

Fine tuning your signature?

Cannot wait to see your Top 5 Signature Changes of 2015 ))

( I'm sure you have notes of all the changes with dates, pictures, drawnings, measurements, distance measurements: wall to speaker - speaker to speaker - amp to second amp ( depends on the mood) - cd player to turntable - listening chair to speakers - listening chair to walls - walls to listening position - walls to walls - cables to walls - cables to listening chair - power cables to signal cables - signal cables to listening chair position - power cables to cartridge... ) I'm sure you have all these covered.. but if not, drop me a line.

Love you man.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Gasolin, you now have a well balanced budget system.  I would suggest spending some time really getting to know it, enjoying your music.  Only then will you really be in the right place to work out your next move.?

One thing to bear in mind is that no system can make every recording sound great.  Unless you want to put the sound quality before the music (not what I would do, but some do take this approach), you sometimes have to accept that you will have to make do with less than pristine sound on certain recordings.

Hi Matthew.. Alloha !!!

Fine tuning your signature?

Cannot wait to see your Top 5 Signature Changes of 2015 ))

( I'm sure you have notes of all the changes with dates, pictures, drawnings, measurements, distance measurements: wall to speaker - speaker to speaker - amp to second amp ( depends on the mood) - cd player to turntable - listening chair to speakers - listening chair to walls - walls to listening position - walls to walls - cables to walls - cables to listening chair - power cables to signal cables - signal cables to listening chair position - power cables to cartridge... ) I'm sure you have all these covered.. but if not, drop me a line.

Love you man. 

Where the hell have you been? Lol

 

[davedotco]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

ID, you really need to come out of the closet.

Then again, your A7Xs would probably frighten the usual suspects half to death.

All that power, presence and clarity, and for what, less than £800.....*good*

 

[lpv]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

ID, you really need to come out of the closet.

Then again, your A7Xs would probably frighten the usual suspects half to death.

All that power, presence and clarity, and for what, less than £800.....*good*

that's true.. actives represents fantastic quality to value and most of them sounds great.. but also lots of them suffer from some sort of hiss - louder or not so loud but it's there.. at least from the ones I've tried and paid attention to hiss/ hum... how about yours ID?

 

[davedotco]

Are not universally brilliant, belive it or not there are some genuinely cr@p models out there. But there is some stunning value to be had, particularly from some of the less well known brands.

We all have our favourites, the Presonus Eris 5 is available for around £200, for anyone looking for a simple option for a computer or hand held device thay take a lot of beating. With an inexpensive dac/preamp you have a system with tremendous capability at still very modest cost.

My own desktop setup uses a pair of 'Studiospares' SN4, tiny (4 inch bass) active monitors, current price £118, that perform out of all proportion to their cost. For a more coventional setup the bigger 6a model will fill all but the biggest rooms.

 

[davedotco]

For domestic use the Artist6 is a good looking compact floorstander, not as powerful as the A7x, particularly in the bass.

Costwise, a pair of Artist6 with a BK XL200 series sub (if needed) is under £900, no more than a pair of A7xs on decent stands.

 

[ID.]

For domestic use the Artist6 is a good looking compact floorstander, not as powerful as the A7x, particularly in the bass.

Costwise, a pair of Artist6 with a BK XL200 series sub (if needed) is under £900, no more than a pair of A7xs on decent stands.

this is the direction I would've gone if these were distributed here in Japan.

 

[ID.]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

ID, you really need to come out of the closet.

Then again, your A7Xs would probably frighten the usual suspects half to death.

All that power, presence and clarity, and for what, less than £800.....*good*

that's true.. actives represents fantastic quality to value and most of them sounds great.. but also lots of them suffer from some sort of hiss - louder or not so loud but it's there.. at least from the ones I've tried and paid attention to hiss/ hum... how about yours ID?

no noticeable hiss, but I usually have run them off a pretty competent preamp/DAC. I think the fact that I have the gain (trim) down pretty low helps. I had a pair of Fostex PM0.4n that it was more noticeable on, but not noticeable with a bit of distance like in my living room. My Genelecs and Adams are much better in this respect. they have less hiss than my old setup with an Arcam Alpha9, but maybe not quite as minimal as I had with passive speakers on an Esoteric RZ-1.

I actually want to put my Adams in a bigger room to let them show off more of their potential. Currently they are doing office duties on stands on the far side of my desk with the bass turned right down. Such detail, so clarity, much effortless expression with great balance. Imagining to die for. Controlled powerful bass. Easy to adjust to the room. Ugly as sin.

 

[gasolin]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

ID, you really need to come out of the closet.

Then again, your A7Xs would probably frighten the usual suspects half to death.

All that power, presence and clarity, and for what, less than £800.....*good*

If you love bass get the a8x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ZXT_XZs04

Not fan of subwoofers since i think you need a crossover for the main speakers and the subwoofer to sound perfect (the way my hifi system is placed a subwoofer is not the best)

But for surround i want 1 or 2 as i have, they go all the way up to 150 hz and my sony amp adjust them a bit to loud,mabye because they also play som lower midrange,but for a hifi system i am not a fan unless you have a 2.1 system where the subwoofer macthes the main speakers perfect (sound,levels and crossover)

 

[davedotco]

My kit was worth over that amount converted into pounds (DB1i sold for 1000 a pair new at the time I bought them), but I still prefer what active monitors bring me. That's also because I like the sound and working from home means I listen at my computer a lot.

Then again, I try not to push an active monitor agenda because it can provoke some funny reactions from people. Much less inflammatory to just troll cable threads.

ID, you really need to come out of the closet.

Then again, your A7Xs would probably frighten the usual suspects half to death.

All that power, presence and clarity, and for what, less than £800.....*good*

If you love bass get the a8x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ZXT_XZs04

Not fan of subwoofers since i think you need a crossover for the main speakers and the subwoofer to sound perfect (the way my hifi system is placed a subwoofer is not the best)

But for surround i want 1 or 2 as i have, they go all the way up to 150 hz and my sony amp adjust them a bit to loud,mabye because they also play som lower midrange,but for a hifi system i am not a fan unless you have a 2.1 system where the subwoofer macthes the main speakers perfect (sound,levels and crossover)

You are of course quite right to be sceptical of subwoofers in music playing systems, most are complete rubbish.

They can work quite beautifully, but mostly don't, almost always due to inept setup and a desire 'to hear them do something'. Running a sub up to 150hz is a complete nonsense for music but people do something like that all the time.

Integrating a good sub is not difficult, but it is not childs play either, the trick is getting a good sub and a main pair of speakers that have a controlled bass, then it is not so difficult.

As for a hi-pass filter on the main speakers, you can argue either way on that, both options can be made to work well. Active speakers tend to have better controlled bass so integrate better with subs than most passive designs.

And, yes, I have heard the A8x, way too much speaker for untreated rooms, great part animal though..*dance4*