Vinyl-only system

[shropshire lad]

Do we know if Relocated has heard the speakers you mention ? If he has then I would have thought he would have suggested them if he thought they were worth recommending ( I have no opinion as I haven't heard them ), and if he hasn't , then is it realistic to expect him to recommend a product he is not familiar with ?

He has suggested a product he is familiar with and thinks would be worth considering . As always , it is up to the OP to sift through the replies and make his own mind . Please don't start another active/passive , AVI/against the whole World argument as it has become seriously tedious . Thank you .

There is no active passive argument, you are mistaken, you should read the posts a little more closely. However, I suspect you are right, I suspect quite a few of the AVI owners have heard few if any other active speakers, yet there are quite a few available now.

I know there isn't such an argument at the moment , but you know full well that these sorts of discussions can quickly develop into an unnecessary bun fight and never resolve themself satisfactorily . So I was just hoping that this useful thread doesn't go the same way .

You are also right , that there appears to be an ever increasing availability of domestic active speakers on the market , some of them are even visually acceptable , and if there are members of this forum who have experience of any of them , then I'm sure they will put forward their suggestions . All we have had so far is the suggestion of one member who has experience of one brand of active speaker and your alternative suggestions . Of course , Relocated's big mistake was not putting the postscript at the end of his suggestion that " other brands of active speakers are available " , if you can find them .

 

[davedotco]

Hello again.

There are some good dealers in Ireland, but you may not get what you are looking for in one store and may need to come North.

I am very familiar with two of the best dealers (Kronos and Lyric) here and am aware of the third, so if I can be of any help, just shout:

- http://www.cloneystore.com/

- http://www.lyrichifi.com/

- http://www.kronosav.com/

- http://www.ardhowenhifi.com/

Rega, Arcam, Linn, Naim and Kef can all be heard at Lyric Hifi, so a phone call to Michael would set up a demo....it could well be worth the round trip

Kronos also have a good selection of the lesser known, but very musical kit (Musical Fidelity, Electrocompaniet, Peachtree, Spendor, Focal etc)

Ardhowen do brands like Sugden, Project and Croft

Good Luck with it all

Cno

That's great, thanks for the info CNO. I'm gonna give Cloney a shout and see what I can do regarding organising a trip up to Lyric. As I'm a beginner to purchasing Hi-Fi, is it common to find everything you're looking for with one dealer or is it normally piecing it together from different outfits depending on the brands they stock (and obviously price)? I like the idea of going to one place for all my needs, but that probably isn't realistic if you want to get the best possible. Cheers man.

Anybody else have any recommendations or suggestions to assist me on any kit that they'd stand by for a vinyl system?

I am going to offer two separate pieces of advice.

Firstly I am tempted 'to come over all 80's' and suggest that you spend at least half your budget on the turntable, arm and cartridge, they are mechanical devices and good mechanical engineering still costs real money. Also at this end of the market I would insist on a british phono stage, preferably built into a good integrated amplifier, a Creek maybe?

Alternatively, as a first time buyer, I would suggest that you contact each of the dealers on the list and ask them to set up the best vinyl playback system that they can supply at or very close too your price point. Give them as much info regarding room size and musical taste as you can but do not mention any specific product. leave the choice to them. That way you can audition both the equipment and the dealer at the same time, if you want to keep a vinyl playing system at it's best, you will need dealer support, be nice to know that whoever you are buying from can provide it.

 

[lindsayt]

Nicky, there's nothing to stop you from buying from ebay from anywhere in the world and then shipping it to your home address. Even after paying shipping costs plus import duty for any non-eu countries there's still an excellent chance you'd get a better sounding system for your money than you would from buying new.

 

[BigH]

If you want to save some money on the amp. you can get the Arcam A18 for about half the A19 price. As you have Richers over there I would make a trip to them as they should stock Arcam and Acoustic Energy not sure about Rega.

 

[jerry klinger]

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a cheap enough Thorens, because it seems like it could be worth the risk.

I'll probably have a mint TD160 coming available shortly .

 

[Nicky-Distance]

Nicky, there's nothing to stop you from buying from ebay from anywhere in the world and then shipping it to your home address. Even after paying shipping costs plus import duty for any non-eu countries there's still an excellent chance you'd get a better sounding system for your money than you would from buying new.

Lindsayt, I really wish that was true. The record shop I work in tried to buy Dansettes from eBay.co.uk, clean 'em up and then sell them on as there was quite the demand for them a couple years ago. After doing that for a couple months, nearly 1/3 of them were not working or broken on arrival. Shipping costs from Ireland are very expensive. I just checked there with An Post, and to send a 10KG box registered (which is required by Paypal to get a refund) it costs €47, this is a cost that is not refundable by ebay or Paypal either. Unfortunately cheap services like Myhermes don't really exist here that I'm aware of. A friend of mine buys and sells old video game consoles and he gets most of his collections from Gumtree.co.uk and ebay.co.uk. I have been present when he gets a delivery and usually there's at least one or two Nintendo's that are always cracked/or broken and he can't really do anything about it because to get a refund he'd have to send it back, which would cost more to send back than what it was worth.

I love 2nd hand stuff, and as I work in a store that really only sells 2nd hand stuff I know the value that can be found for a fraction of the price. What I said above is actually more of a frustration rant than an attempt to refute what you're saying.

@davedotco That sounds like great advice, thanks. There's a guy who comes into the record shop that I really respect and he often says that the arm/cartridge/stylus is the most important part and says that if the first contact point with the signal isn't the best possible, then what is the point of having the best possible things (amps, cables, speakers) to interpret a not-so-great signal. He compares it to having a TOTL HD TV but with bad aerial reception.

Also, I think that is a good way to approach dealers & shops for the first time. Cheers.

 

[relocated]

Fair enough, but it would be good if you could point out the other options - the wireless Dynaudios, for example, or the other active speaker options.

In this instance, the Dyns might be more suitable, since you could then locate the turntable where you wanted with the controller next to it, no need for messy cables everywhere.

Do we know if Relocated has heard the speakers you mention ? If he has then I would have thought he would have suggested them if he thought they were worth recommending ( I have no opinion as I haven't heard them ), and if he hasn't , then is it realistic to expect him to recommend a product he is not familiar with ?

He has suggested a product he is familiar with and thinks would be worth considering . As always , it is up to the OP to sift through the replies and make his own mind . Please don't start another active/passive , AVI/against the whole World argument as it has become seriously tedious . Thank you .

Thank you Shropshire Lad. Mr Lemon and I have had enough discussions that he should absolutely know why I say what I do.

I do not go around wasting retailers time by auditioning things I am never going to buy; so that I can tell people what I thought about something I heard in unfamiliar surroundings for a few minutes or more. What is the point of that? Info on everything available new and second-hand is available on the web.

What I do tell people is, as you Shropshire have pointed out, what I can recommend based on ownership and love of a particular product. As well as the relevance of my opinion based on 40 years of being fervently interested in hifi and having spent far too much money on it in the past.

To the OP, I would recommend that you still look at a decent Direct Drive turntable as an alternative to belt drive. When I was keen on vinyl [a long time ago] I owned a Technics SL10 parallel tracking D/D turntable and it was never bettered by any belt drive that I heard or had owned.

 

[Biffta]

Good luck with your system. I don't want to start a vinyl v. digital debate, but I'm amused by the fact that in my early 'hi-fi' days, vinyl was the only choice (discounting cassette tape!) and much time, money and effort was spent setting up tracking weight, bias, compensation, not to forget the need for cleaning and prevention of static with pops & clicks audible whatever steps were taken. Of course if the type of music being played makes any pops and clicks inaudible (ie; loud!) then that's not a great issue. I used to use a reference record (HI-Fi Sound if I recall) and remember going through each track adjusting my arm and cartridge for the best sound.

I remember though when the CD came along and all of a sudden such problems disappeared together with quick and easy track selection by remote control and I was thrilled, relieved and liberated. I could play it in my car and on my portable CD player as well!

What goes around comes around eh?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Thank you Shropshire Lad. Mr Lemon and I have had enough discussions that he should absolutely know why I say what I do.

I do not go around wasting retailers time by auditioning things I am never going to buy; so that I can tell people what I thought about something I heard in unfamiliar surroundings for a few minutes or more. What is the point of that? Info on everything available new and second-hand is available on the web.

What I do tell people is, as you Shropshire have pointed out, what I can recommend based on ownership and love of a particular product. As well as the relevance of my opinion based on 40 years of being fervently interested in hifi and having spent far too much money on it in the past.

To the OP, I would recommend that you still look at a decent Direct Drive turntable as an alternative to belt drive. When I was keen on vinyl [a long time ago] I owned a Technics SL10 parallel tracking D/D turntable and it was never bettered by any belt drive that I heard or had owned.

So that would be a "No", then?

Bazinga !

 

[davedotco]

Good luck with your system. I don't want to start a vinyl v. digital debate, but I'm amused by the fact that in my early 'hi-fi' days, vinyl was the only choice (discounting cassette tape!) and much time, money and effort was spent setting up tracking weight, bias, compensation, not to forget the need for cleaning and prevention of static with pops & clicks audible whatever steps were taken. Of course if the type of music being played makes any pops and clicks inaudible (ie; loud!) then that's not a great issue. I used to use a reference record (HI-Fi Sound if I recall) and remember going through each track adjusting my arm and cartridge for the best sound.

I remember though when the CD came along and all of a sudden such problems disappeared together with quick and easy track selection by remote control and I was thrilled, relieved and liberated. I could play it in my car and on my portable CD player as well!

What goes around comes around eh?

if you want consistently good sound for vinyl records in everyday use then the above is all true. It is my experience that many vinyl 'enthusiasts' are into some sort of retro or nostalgia trip and although I do not put you into that category i would be wary of advice from this direction.

A record 'player' (turntable, arm, cartridge) is a mechanical device and as I said above, good engineering is important and expensive. I know it is no longer fashionable but spending most of the budget on the player is probably a good idea in this case.

Obviously your local dealer should be your first stop but few appear really interested in record players these days, if you have issues with their compedence then I would point you at products like Rega (RP6) and Clearaudio (Concept or Concept MC) which come complete and virtually ready to use. See if you can find a (UK?) dealer who is helpful on the phone and get one mail ordered.

 

[Richard Allen]

Hello.

A vinyl only system???. Nice!!!.

May I make 1 humble suggestion please?

When you come to choose your speakers I think a closed box design will be better for you due to the possibility of acoustic feedback which MAY cause excessive cone wobble with reflex ones.

If you can stretch to the budget maybe ATC SCM11s or even 19s. Good LF response and a nice tight sound due to their design. Would be interesting to see what Chebby and Drummerman think on this point.

 

[davedotco]

Which reminds me of a point I meant to make but didn't.

Low frequency feedback can ruin a system's performance, it is easy enough to check by observing the movement of the bass cones. There are a number of ways to limit the impact that this has, including a suitable turntable support.

Also as Richard points out this will be much more apparent (and distructive) with ported speaker designs and the use of a closed back type may well help. Personally I am an advocate of limiting the sub bass response of the amplifier with a well judged hi-pass filter, the old rumble switch in fact. Talk to the manufacturer of the phono stage or amplifier.

 

[Al ears]

Nice suggestion by Richard. I'd also suggest his EB2's (as he obviously cannot recommend them himself) as another closed-box design.

As far as floor-standers go it will take a lot more money to beat a pair of Epos Epic 5's.

 

[DIB]

My last two turntables have been bought secondhand, but off other hi-fi forums ( HiFiWigwam and AOS respectively) and were both expertly packed by the sellers, and arrived in immaculate condition. I think if you went down that route, buying from real enthusiasts who value their equipment and treat them and you with respect, then that is a far safer bet than Ebay IMO.

.

 

[CnoEvil]

Obviously your local dealer should be your first stop but few appear really interested in record players these days, if you have issues with their compedence then I would point you at products like Rega (RP6) and Clearaudio (Concept or Concept MC) which come complete and virtually ready to use. See if you can find a (UK?) dealer who is helpful on the phone and get one mail ordered.

@ Nicky

FWIW. I have been dealing with Lyric since the early 80s, where I bought Rega Planar 2 / Rega Planar 3 / Linn Sondek, over a period of 12 years......all supplied and set up by them. Michael (original owner) is still there, so (ime) you would be in safe and knowledgeable hands

David from Kronos is much the same (started in 1991), but I've only been dealing with him for 5 years or so.....also highly recommended.

Ardhowen are relative new comers, who I met at the NI Audio show, and got a good vibe, but have never delt with them

Moores have a reputation as being very straight forward and also been around for a good while (since 1967!).......I've only spoken to him on the phone.

Clooney are probably the best dealer in ROI.

EDIT. Lyric, Kronos and Ardhowen were featured at the NI Audio Show, which was covered here over 3 pages (in case you are interested): http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/12/11/2010/the-northern-ireland-audio-show-2010-part-one/

 

[davedotco]

Obviously your local dealer should be your first stop but few appear really interested in record players these days, if you have issues with their compedence then I would point you at products like Rega (RP6) and Clearaudio (Concept or Concept MC) which come complete and virtually ready to use. See if you can find a (UK?) dealer who is helpful on the phone and get one mail ordered.

@ Nicky

FWIW. I have been dealing with Lyric since the early 80s, where I bought Rega Planar 2 / Rega Planar 3 / Linn Sondek, over a period of 12 years......all supplied and set up by them. Michael (original owner) is still there, so (ime) you would be in safe and knowledgeable hands

David from Kronos is much the same (started in 1991), but I've only been dealing with him for 5 years or so.....also highly recommended.

Ardhowen are relative new comers, who I met at the NI Audio show, and got a good vibe from them, but have never delt with them

Moores have a reputation as being very straight forward and also been around for a good while (since 1967!).......I've only spoken to him on the phone.

Clooney are probably the best dealer in ROI.

EDIT. Lyric, Kronos and Ardhowen were featured at the NI Audio Show, which was covered here over 3 pages (in case you are interested): http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/12/11/2010/the-northern-ireland-audio-show-2010-part-one/

That's good to know Cno, i have had some dealings with Lyric and Chronos in times past, good to see they are keeping up the good work.

Not really the case in my neck of the woods, mainstream dealers are of little use for serious vinyl users and the more specialist dealers have restricted product ranges at, what is for them, the budget end of the spectrum. Rega dealers are usually a decent bet, but again their range of competing product is often quite narrow.

If a good dealer is available, that would always be my first choice but I have been put off by some poor dealer experiences in recent times when I have asked about items and setups that are a little off the mainstream.

 

[Nicky-Distance]

I started the process by blindly buying a Rega RP6 w/ Exact cartridge in green. Now it's time for me to put some serious thought into amp & speakers. I saw someone else who posted about how great the RP6 w/ a Brio R and Rega Speakers is, but my budget is now a little higher and I am wondering what I should do next with limited amount of dealers (that are also quite far away).

Right now I'm looking at Naim Nait, KI Pearl Lite, Roksan Kandy, Brio R, and possibly considering waiting until I can try out the Rega Elicit R when it comes out. I'm also leaning towards the Kef R500's.

Has anyone had any experience with any of those amps and speaker combination?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I started the process by blindly buying a Rega RP6 w/ Exact cartridge in green. Now it's time for me to put some serious thought into amp & speakers. I saw someone else who posted about how great the RP6 w/ a Brio R and Rega Speakers is, but my budget is now a little higher and I am wondering what I should do next with limited amount of dealers (that are also quite far away).

Right now I'm looking at Naim Nait, KI Pearl Lite, Roksan Kandy, Brio R, and possibly considering waiting until I can try out the Rega Elicit R when it comes out. I'm also leaning towards the Kef R500's.

Has anyone had any experience with any of those amps and speaker combination?

Congrets on the green RP6 !!!

Now i think you're moving in the right direction! :cheer:

I didn't like Nain 5i i found it to cold, analitic... :?

The Elicit R is on the verge of being presented, I think some time in June( it was told by my Rega dealer, he was at Rega factory last week)! It is a dual Brio R (100w at 8ohm), all the sound signature was kept, but with some improvements. He showed me lots of photos from the Elicit R production. 8)

And you can throw into the mix some Dynaudio speakers or KEF R range, and why not demo the RS5...

Have FUN ! :cheers:

Best REGArds

 

[CnoEvil]

You have a great TT, but my advice is still to come North for a listening session......it's the safest way.

Where did you buy the Rega?

 

[Nicky-Distance]

I actually ordered it through Lyric Hifi and was planning to go up this Tuesday but I may hold off until the elicit r is released. Lyric has KEF speakers and amp wise I think they have the Naim Nait, Linn Majik I, A19 and maybe the Brio r.

I'm kind of finding it difficult that there doesn't seem to be any places that would have everything I would like to try under 1 roof or even a string of shops within distance. Obviously online stores have everything, but I'd really like to get a system that works well together as opposed to relying on reviews.

I guess that's the reason why I've taken to this forum for advice.

 

[CnoEvil]

Good, I thought it would probabily have been Lyric.

If you don't hear something that hits the spot, Kronos have a good selection of amps (Musical Fidelity, Roksan, Electrocompaniet, Peachtree etc...speak to David / Gary)