Vinyl carbon dustbrush

[stereoman]

Hello,

after buying a record cleaning brush I noticed that after sweeping / scooping the dust from the record it leaves many very light scratches across the record. It is made of very fine anti static carbon fibres. Is this normal ?

 

[Al ears]

Hello,

after buying a record cleaning brush I noticed that after sweeping / scooping the dust from the record it leaves many very light scratches across the record. It is made of very fine anti static carbon fibres. Is this normal ?

Not to my knowledge. Are you sure it is scratching and they are not dust streaks?

Carbon fibre should not be stiff or hard enough to scratch vinyl. Who makes that brush?

 

[stereoman]

Hello,

after buying a record cleaning brush I noticed that after sweeping / scooping the dust from the record it leaves many very light scratches across the record. It is made of very fine anti static carbon fibres. Is this normal ?

Not to my knowledge. Are you sure it is scratching and they are not dust streaks?

Carbon fibre should not be stiff or hard enough to scratch vinyl. Who makes that brush?

Hi Al ears, it's "Inakustik" made in Germany. Looks good. I just googled and read that indeed these ( I mean all carbon brushes ) brushes pose a problem. They leave traces / marks or light scratches ESPECIALLY ON NEW RECORDS ! So everyone please be aware of this. Actually I tested this on a very good record from 1985 and now it is cleaner but I think it pops more than before. I did press very lightly in a rotational move on another EP and it left many light fine marks, but sounds ok on this one. Also I did everything correctly. I'm not sure if I should use this anymore. Good I haven't tried it on my brand new records. Has anyone noticed this as well ?

 

[Al ears]

Hello,

after buying a record cleaning brush I noticed that after sweeping / scooping the dust from the record it leaves many very light scratches across the record. It is made of very fine anti static carbon fibres. Is this normal ?

Not to my knowledge. Are you sure it is scratching and they are not dust streaks?

Carbon fibre should not be stiff or hard enough to scratch vinyl. Who makes that brush?

Hi Al ears, it's "Inakustik" made in Germany. Looks good. I just googled and read that indeed these ( I mean all carbon brushes ) brushes pose a problem. They leave traces / marks or light scratches ESPECIALLY ON NEW RECORDS ! So everyone please be aware of this. Actually I tested this on a very good record from 1985 and now it is cleaner but I think it pops more than before. I did press very lightly in a rotational move on another EP and it left many light fine marks, but sounds ok on this one. Also I did everything correctly. I'm not sure if I should use this anymore. Good I haven't tried it on my brand new records. Has anyone noticed this as well ?

No. My cheap Ortofon one leaves no marks when used properly.

Considering how hard vinyl is, you play it with a diamond after all, I find it interesting you can actually scratch it with carbon fibres.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I'm guessing this might be a case of looking at the discs more carefully after cleaning than before, and noticing for the first time hairlines that were there before. Perhaps the light now catches the hairlines more as there's no dust to catch the light and obscure them. I know I look and listen more carefully, without meaning to, after I've cleaned a disc, and so I sometimes noticed thing both aurally and visually that I hadn't noticed before.

A carbon-fibre brush properly used should definitely not be able to scratch a vinyl surface.

 

[Al ears]

I'm guessing this might be a case of looking at the discs more carefully after cleaning than before, and noticing for the first time hairlines that were there before. Perhaps the light now catches the hairlines more as there's no dust to catch the light and obscure them. I know I look and listen more carefully, without meaning to, after I've cleaned a disc, and so I sometimes noticed thing both aurally and visually that I hadn't noticed before.

A carbon-fibre brush properly used should definitely not be able to scratch a vinyl surface.

+1

 

[stereoman]

I've just read that Carbon brush should not be used immediately after opening on the record without prior sweeping its fibers a couple of times. That's why it can leave hairlines after the first use. I tested a brand new shiny record and it left many hairlines. I'm 100% sure the record surface was pristine. But also the record seems to sound only a bit better. Not much difference. After few uses it does not leave almost any hairlines but I think the crackling is a bit stronger and happens more often. Maybe just my experience. Still do not know what to think about it. I definitely will not use it on the brand new records for now until I find out what's going on. It seems to be a good thing for old records though. But I think the new records should not be cleaned at all with anything - only in exceptional cases for old ones.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I tested a brand new shiny record and it left many hairlines. I'm 100% sure the record surface was pristine. But also the record seems to sound only a bit better.

I wonder whether it could be the pressing release agent residue left on the surfact of the disc that it getting disturbed by the brush fibres and leaving what appear to be hairline scratches?

It would be worth cleaning that disc, to see if the scratches disappear. It might be that the 'hairlines' are not in the vinyl at all, but in the residue on its surface.

 

[Al ears]

I tested a brand new shiny record and it left many hairlines. I'm 100% sure the record surface was pristine. But also the record seems to sound only a bit better.

I wonder whether it could be the pressing release agent residue left on the surfact of the disc that it getting disturbed by the brush fibres and leaving what appear to be hairline scratches?

It would be worth cleaning that disc, to see if the scratches disappear. It might be that the 'hairlines' are not in the vinyl at all, but in the residue on its surface.

I was thinking the same thing. Carbon fibre brushes only remove dust and sort of remove static. Little reason to use then on a new LP.

 

[thescarletpronster]

You're obviously buying different records to me, Al, because a lot of new records I buy are covered in static and, therefore, in dust! ;-)

 

[stereoman]

Guys I really start to to think that (any) record cleaning is not necessary and does more harm than good. A simple air puff to the surface will dust it off and the left dust will not spoil the sound. Actually I cleaned my 3 records in a proper way, two old records and one new - now I get more pops and clicks ( which are much louder and happen often even on a brand new one ). Really, the best thing is not touch the records at all. I think It is not necessary. ( I might be wrong of course ) Also it might be a bit of a myth that new records contain dust particles etc. They - brand new untouched records - sound really good to me from the first use without any cleaning.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I can only say that cleaning has improved my records no end – including brand-new records. Many brand-new records have either pressing-release agent washed over them or excessive static. Both of this hinder sound quality, and a proper clean will get rid of both. Occasional new records haven't needed it – particularly those pressed by Optimal Media, who are currently head and shoulders above any other pressing plant – but most benefit. I've tried them back-to-back – out of the shrink-wrap, on the turntable, wipe with the carbon-fibre brush, play them, clean them, then play them again – and in most case the improvement is immediately noticeable.

 

[Al ears]

You're obviously buying different records to me, Al, because a lot of new records I buy are covered in static and, therefore, in dust! ;-)

Probably the same only I wet-clean mine firstly.

Admittedly there is a line of thought that says the best way to clean them is simply to play them.... ;-)

 

[MajorFubar]

Admittedly there is a line of thought that says the best way to clean them is simply to play them.... ;-)

Yeah and all that does is clog the stylus tip with shite (technical term) which is often hard work remove completely. I'm definitely pro-cleaning, though there is an art to it, and if you do it wrongly you end up with noisier records that you started with. I never did try ol' ThompsonUXB's siggestion of using a Magic Eraser sponge...

 

[Al ears]

Admittedly there is a line of thought that says the best way to clean them is simply to play them.... ;-)

Yeah and all that does is clog the stylus tip with shite (technical term) which is often hard work remove completely. I'm definitely pro-cleaning, though there is an art to it, and if you do it wrongly you end up with noisier records that you started with. I never did try ol' ThompsonUXB's siggestion of using a Magic Eraser sponge...

Funnily enough nor did I.

 

[stereoman]

Mixed feelings. So indeed the mistakes I made are - the proper use of carbon brush. Never ever should a brand new carbon brush be used on a record straight out of the box. After opening the brush needs to be swept ( with its handle or used on anything smooth ) a few times before use. This will blunt a bit the edges and prevent immediate microabrasions. Then it needs to be swept across a record in a rotary movement and only at the end it should be slid away from the surface - I - for example - do it manually, holding a record vertically - pushing brush on a rotating record on a TT slows down and might strain the motor. Indeed , one needs to make a several rotational ( alongside grooves ) sweeps on each side. Seems to work much better. BUT if it really improves anything - hard to say.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've never really been convinced by brushes. My view is that dust brushes might lift some of the crap out of the groove, but it won't get everything out - everything else just gets shifted to one place (wherever you stopped).

 

[chebby]

A Keith Monks cleaning is the only decent cleaning system I have ever experienced. http://www.vinylrecords.co.uk (he must have got in well early with that URL)

A bit expensive (although I was local, so no postage) but well worth it. Many friends, family, colleagues etc. commented on ... "how come your LPs are never noisy like 'normal' ones?"

It was that level of care and expense (vinyl is incredibly 'needy' if it's to sound right) that drove me - finally - to digital around 2009.

As for carbon fibre brushes just barely make contact with the surface of the record don't press down at all. I used an Ortofon branded one.

If you don't leave the album out after playing it, and keep the lid down (and clean) between plays, then there shouldn't be a dust problem in the first place. Shake out any felt platter mats (Rega et al.) sometimes. Brush the stylus tip gently now and then.

 

[Al ears]

A Keith Monks cleaning is the only decent cleaning system I have ever experienced. http://www.vinylrecords.co.uk (he must have got in well early with that URL)

A bit expensive (although I was local, so no postage) but well worth it. Many friends, family, colleagues etc. commented on ... "how come your LPs are never noisy like 'normal' ones?"

It was that level of care and expense (vinyl is incredibly 'needy' if it's to sound right) that drove me - finally - to digital around 2009.

As for carbon fibre brushes just barely make contact with the surface of the record don't press down at all. I used an Ortofon branded one.

If you don't leave the album out after playing it, and keep the lid down (and clean) between plays, then there shouldn't be a dust problem in the first place. Shake out any felt platter mats (Rega et al.) sometimes. Brush the stylus tip gently now and then.

Sound words. I also use an Ortofon brush cut more often than not simply wipe record with a microfibre cloth .

Those Keith Monks machines are great but unfortunately I have to drive 18 miles to nearest shop that has one so only done on the muckier second-hand LPs at the moment.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Then it needs to be swept across a record in a rotary movement and only at the end it should be slid away from the surface

I think the best way to do it is to hold it with one edge of the brush over the edge of the label and the brush extending however far it reaches towards the outside edge of the disc, and hold it still for a few rotations, then gradually sweeping it forwards and towards the outside edge of the disc until you have moved the brush entirely off the disc. I'd allow a total of about 15 seconds for this.

pushing brush on a rotating record on a TT slows down and might strain the motor.

Don't, whatever you do, apply any downward force. You want to hold the brush so that the tips of the bristles are just resting inside the grooves. You're allowing the bristles to lift off any pieces of dust (which weigh next to nothing), not to 'dig out' encrusted dirt from the grooves. If your record has anything more than simple dry dust lying on the surface – e.g. grit, encrusted dirt or grease – you need to wet-clean it, not to try to force the dirt out by pressing the brush into the grooves.

You don't want any downward force at all with the brush. If the disc is slowing down, and especially if the turntable platter itself is slowing down, something is wrong! (If you have a very slippy mat and the disc is slipping on the mat, that might not suggest something wrong with your brushing technique; you might just want a more grippy mat.) You want to be brushing as lightly as you possibly can. Let the turning disc do the work, not your arm.

 

[Al ears]

Then it needs to be swept across a record in a rotary movement and only at the end it should be slid away from the surface

I think the best way to do it is to hold it with one edge of the brush over the edge of the label and the brush extending however far it reaches towards the outside edge of the disc, and hold it still for a few rotations, then gradually sweeping it forwards and towards the outside edge of the disc until you have moved the brush entirely off the disc. I'd allow a total of about 15 seconds for this.

pushing brush on a rotating record on a TT slows down and might strain the motor.

Don't, whatever you do, apply any downward force. You want to hold the brush so that the tips of the bristles are just resting inside the grooves. You're allowing the bristles to lift off any pieces of dust (which weigh next to nothing), not to 'dig out' encrusted dirt from the grooves. If your record has anything more than simple dry dust lying on the surface – e.g. grit, encrusted dirt or grease – you need to wet-clean it, not to try to force the dirt out by pressing the brush into the grooves.

You don't want any downward force at all with the brush. If the disc is slowing down, and especially if the turntable platter itself is slowing down, something is wrong! (If you have a very slippy mat and the disc is slipping on the mat, that might not suggest something wrong with your brushing technique; you might just want a more grippy mat.) You want to be brushing as lightly as you possibly can. Let the turning disc do the work, not your arm.

+1

Except for some reason I go from the outside edge to the label. My platter speed does not slow but this may depend somewhat on the torque of your motor.

 

[nopiano]

I've never really been convinced by brushes. My view is that dust brushes might lift some of the crap out of the groove, but it won't get everything out - everything else just gets shifted to one place (wherever you stopped).

I agree, David, and less is more unless you go to serious wet cleaners. The handheld carbon fibre brushes sometimes used to shed hairs into the groove, which then made a mighty click! Surface dust isn't in the playing groove necessarily, and if static is a problem then a few pot plants or a dish of water near the turntable helps.

Before we even had carbon fibre, the original Perspex dust bug was great, but with better gear the sound of the bristles could be heard in the groove.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Except for some reason I go from the outside edge to the label.

Ooh, interesting. I might try that as it would solve the 'dust flipping round the rim of the record and sticking to the underside' issue, although that's less of a problem with static-free washed discs.

 

[chebby]

What ever happened to Zerostat guns?

Yay!

Still with us.

Pricey though. It was always more effective when treating perspex lids. (They were more popular back in the days of nylon flares, nylon sheets, nylon curtains, polyester carpets and plastic 'platform' shoes. 1970s homes were like living in a Van De Graaff generator with static sparking off every metal object you touched!)

 

[Al ears]

What ever happened to Zerostat guns?

Yay!

Still with us.

Pricey though. It was always more effective when treating perspex lids. (They were more popular back in the days of nylon flares, nylon sheets, nylon curtains, polyester carpets and plastic 'platform' shoes. 1970s homes were like living in a Van De Graaff generator with static sparking off every metal object you touched!)

I remember those days, don't forget nylon shirts... great fun when using a turntable in a nice dry room....

Had one of the original Zerostats back then, and needed it. ;-)