Valve Vs Solid State amps

[Vladimir]

Why is Voxative High End? Wooden cones and plugs? Alnico magnets? *stop*

Why not radial magnets, super pistonic metal cones, berylium tweeters, zero standing waves rounded cabinets, tapered tube loaded catenary drivers...

A single Lowther driver performs better than Dynaudio Confidence C4, and at double the price? *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[ebentjerodt]

Why is Voxative High End? Wooden cones and plugs? Alnico magnets? *stop*

Why not radial magnets, super pistonic metal cones, berylium tweeters, zero standing waves rounded cabinets, tapered tube loaded catenary drivers...

A single Lowther driver performs better than Dynaudio Confidence C4, and at double the price? *scratch_one-s_head*

Is not me the one that say that. Actulay they say they preform better than anything.

http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=8838

 

[Vladimir]

Just out of interest, lets repeat the calculation for B&W CM1's. They're 84 db efficient.

So... we'd need 3583 watts through them to achieve the same sound levels. Do you think they could take that much power?

You are talking rock concert front row live volume levels here. 95 db average with peaks of 110dbs! That's deafeningly loud. Poor neighbours too.

How about aiming for an average listening level of 86 dbs at a distance of 5 metres from the speakers (for far field listening in a room appropriately sized for full range speakers) with our 15 db headroom for peaks at 101 dbs at the listening position? With my 103 db efficient speakers in a stereo pair my 8 watt SET will deliver that fine.

To achieve these 101 db peaks at 5 metres, we'd need 628 watts through the B&W CM1's. Do you think they could handle 628 watts? Even if the CM1's could miraculously handle this power, they'd still sound and feel less loud and authoratitive than the SET and full range high efficiency speakers because of the amount of bass below the 100 hz the CM1's filter out.

Actually they measure 81dB. Ha! Try again. *pardon*

P.S. Average SPL for a rock concert is 110dB - 120dB, not 95dB. Unless you strictly got to Elton John concerts.

 

[Vladimir]

Why is Voxative High End? Wooden cones and plugs? Alnico magnets? *stop*

Why not radial magnets, super pistonic metal cones, berylium tweeters, zero standing waves rounded cabinets, tapered tube loaded catenary drivers...

A single Lowther driver performs better than Dynaudio Confidence C4, and at double the price? *scratch_one-s_head*

Is not me the one that say that. Actulay they say they preform better than anything.

http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&...

Ah... that solves it then. *boredom*

 

[lindsayt]

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-efficiency.htm

Just out of interest, anyone claiming greater than 112 dbs efficiency at 1 metre (8 ohms load) is either a liar or mistaken or has discovered the secret to perpetual motion and free energy. Or is using some field coil type added energy jiggery pokery.

A 112 db efficient speaker is converting 100% of the electrical power fed into it into sound.

A 103 db efficient speaker is converting 12.5% of the energy to sound and the rest to heat.

An 84 db efficient speaker is converting 0.16% into sound and 99.84% of the power into heat.

 

[lindsayt]

Actually they measure 81dB. Ha! Try again. *pardon*

P.S. Average SPL for a rock concert is 110dB - 120dB, not 95dB. Unless you strictly got to Elton John concerts.

I was going by the 84 db efficiency figures given by B&W on their website: http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Speakers/Home_Audio/CM_Series/CM1-S2.html

Have you measured the SPL's at any rock concerts recently?

In the UK they're not as loud as they used to be, thanks to better health and safety awareness and tighter restrictions on noise leakage outside the venue than 30 years ago.

When was the last time you heard any hi-fi system playing at 95 dbs average with 110 db peaks at the listening position?

Do you know how loud even 80 dbs average with 95 db peaks sounds and feels when you have full range speakers?

 

[Vladimir]

Actually they measure 81dB. Ha! Try again. *pardon*

P.S. Average SPL for a rock concert is 110dB - 120dB, not 95dB. Unless you strictly got to Elton John concerts.

I was going by the 84 db efficiency figures given by B&W on their website: http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Speakers/Home_Audio/CM_Series/CM1-S2.html

Have you measured the SPL's at any rock concerts recently?

In the UK they're not as loud as they used to be, thanks to better health and safety awareness and tighter restrictions on noise leakage outside the venue than 30 years ago.

When was the last time you heard any hi-fi system playing at 95 dbs average with 110 db peaks at the listening position?

Do you know how loud even 80 dbs average with 95 db peaks sounds and feels when you have full range speakers?

I have hearing damage from concerts and DJing at clubs and private parties. I also always had very SPL powerfull systems at home. Now I listen at background levels on 81dB milk cartons. Maybe some day I'll also settle on wooden lowthers and 3W valve amps.

 

[Rethep]

Let's say I know absolutely nothing about audio. Can someone please explain to me the need for a valve amp today in 2014 without using the following words: quality, better, silkier, smoother, richer, punchier, leaner, musical, sweeter, nicer, brighter, darker, PRaT. Please replace those with: higher, lower, more, less, so I can understand as a layman. Thanks.

Vladimir, why do you think people use these words to describe their valve-sound ? Yes, you got it!

Go listen for yourself to hear what it is that connects some people to their tubes!

You don't even need a SET-amp! See my review of my tube-amp in the thread of the 'Peitho 303' speaker!

 

[Jota180]

Let's say I know absolutely nothing about audio. Can someone please explain to me the need for a valve amp today in 2014 without using the following words: quality, better, silkier, smoother, richer, punchier, leaner, musical, sweeter, nicer, brighter, darker, PRaT. Please replace those with: higher, lower, more, less, so I can understand as a layman. Thanks.

Vladimir, why do you think people use these words to describe their valve-sound ? Yes, you got it!

Go listen for yourself to hear what it is that connects some people to their tubes!

You don't even need a SET-amp! See my review of my tube-amp in the thread of the 'Peitho 303' speaker!

Marketing hype. The hifi industry is full of it.

What happens when we compare the signal that goes into any amplifier with the signal it outputs. That should give an indication of the job it's doing. After all, it's job is to amplify a signal, not turn it into something else that it isn't.

 

[Vladimir]

What would be a new system based arround a 8W SET amp with normal listening levels in a normal room, with a reasonably fullrange sound, for affordable beginner money?

 

[lindsayt]

Vladimir, full range and high efficiency equals large to huge speakers with higher manufacturing costs than small, low efficiency speakers.

You can't have it all in speakers. You'll have to compromise on price or newness and you'll have to compromise on speaker size vs bass extension.

For SET amplification, if you could do a DIY build that would be a great way to go. If not you're looking at a compromise of price and newness and pedigree. It also depends how few watts you can get away with. First class 2 watt SET's generally cost less than first class 8 watters which cost less than first class 16 watters.

 

[Overdose]

Vladimir, full range and high efficiency equals large to huge speakers with higher manufacturing costs than small, low efficiency speakers.

You can't have it all in speakers. You'll have to compromise on price or newness and you'll have to compromise on speaker size vs bass extension.

For SET amplification, if you could do a DIY build that would be a great way to go. If not you're looking at a compromise of price and newness and pedigree. It also depends how few watts you can get away with. First class 2 watt SET's generally cost less than first class 8 watters which cost less than first class 16 watters.

If the first choice is for very large high efficiency speakers, then the amplification choices are almost endless.

If the first choice is for a low powered SET amp, then the choices for suitable speakers are much less.

What a cutie!

 

[Rethep]

Since i use valve-amps (2005), i don't want to go back. Listening music has become an adventure almoast all the time. Of course sometimes some rythmic tight bass is missing. But the other side is a very lifelike sound with gorgeous vocals and space and dynamics in midfreq (where the core of the music is happening). No listening fatigue and with a modern amp, no dull sound.

There are 2 other technical differences when comparing ss and valves.

1. The valve-amp uses less ampstages (mostly only 2) which gives less phaseproblems and very direct sound.

2 The direct sound is also because of lesser feedback used in the valve-amp.

My speakers which were never known for use with valves have never sounded any better then now. I tried many ss-amps on them.

You could also use one single stereo-power valve-amp. Look e.g. at the Cayin's, or Prima Luna's. I would not go for the (too expensive) Quads. If you don't buy a SET amp the heat should be o.k.. Some 40 W, like mine is a lot of power!