Hi,
Not sure if the correct word is tube or valve. Anyway.
I want a new amplifier. (who doesn't? :rofl: ) I would like to hear advice from tube experts (and the ones who had a tube amp in the past) on tube amplifiers in general.
I have looked at some tube amps, Jolida comes to mind, but also Unison Research and more expensive brands. Hybrid integrated amps have a blend of tube in the pre-section and solid state as power output (100Wpc for example), while all-tube amps often have either El34 power output tubes or KT88 output tubes. Both all-tube amps in this example are 50Wpc. I am not sure which one I will enjoy most.
Let me first tell you what I DO like, and what not.
-I currently use a 100Wpc solid state integrated amplifier, (the Scylla 80 S, old one but got recapped) which can produce deep and well controlled bass, has a wide soundstage, is fast and detailed. But emotion and texture is missing, there is no "color" to instruments so to speak, it mostly has cold tonality to everything, I hate that! I have Wharfedale 10.1 speakers. I play with a Linn turntable with a Benz element, which is a rich and fullbodied element, and has good bass retrieval. The reason I play with a turntable, is that I find it has more natural and smooth timing, and it has excellent depth and sense of space. You can hear where each instrument is coming from (love that) even during complex passages. Instruments and voices sound more alive with color and seem touchable with vinyl aswell, compared to digital. But the point is, with my current amplifier it still sounds cold and without much texture or color.
I heard Sonus Faber standmounts (warm speakers, bit polite but very controlled and with lots of airy space) combined with Naim pre+power amp 70W (dynamic amps with ok tonality) while using my turntable as the source, and the tonality was much better, bit warmer, but also voices and instruments had a "you are there" feeling with texture, and I love that feeling. But the Naim amplifier was a bit over-enthousiastic with the bass in my opinion, while the Sonus Faber speakers supposedly don't even have a strong bass. I know the amp shouldn't be to polite and not to analytical, otherwise it gets boring fast, but the bass was a bit to strong a few times in my opinion. This is my reference setup so to speak, which I don't own myself.
Okay, now my list of things I seek for in an amplifier:
Since you can't have everything in an amplifier, especially tube amps I also state in what areas I would be willing to compromise.
-No harsch treble at all times! It should be smooth, not rough and nail-scratching. I would be willing to even compromise with a slight roll off/rounding off the treble.
-No super enthousiastic bass please, it's nice if the bass can go deep and be punchy if that's on the recording, but the bass shouldn't be overly enthousiastic or forward. It should atleast display the texture of bass instruments and have the right tonality. For compromising reasons it would be okay if the bass would lack a bit of punch, I can always add more bass punch with a subwoofer right?
-The soundstage should be wide and deep, in an accurate way. I should be able to hear where individual instruments are placed, even in complex passages. The layers of the music should be unfolded, so to speak. It shouldn't get messy in complex passages, but keep things organized.
-I love emotion and texture, the "color" in instruments and voices. Rich and full with texture and tonality, not to polite, but certainly not to over-enthousiastic in dynamics. I guess these are honest dynamics?
-I would be willing to sacrifice detail for smooth natural timing or the points above. I don't need to hear every tiny little detail, the "color" is much more important as is the fluid natural timing.
-I prefer a relaxed warmth to an analytical fast cold tonality.
Now the artists that I listen to regularly. Looking at the above list of requirements, you would expect that I like acoustic music only right, considering the cliche's with tubes? Well that is not the case, although I do have some acoustic artists I like from time to time, mostly for background music.
- Artists I listen to often: Complex layered "progressive" rock, like Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson. If not familiar with them, think Pink Floyd 😉 Also some other music like Portishead and jazzy dance music, with sweet voices and a mix of electronic beats and acoustic instruments (yes it's recorded quite ok, not everything are electronic samples in this case, so it should have some tonality and texture aswell). But I can sacrifice on the thumpy electronic beats, can always add a subwoofer later if it bothers me. Some of these progressive rockartists have dynamic transients in volume, going from subtle to high volume very quickly. I like this transient to sound natural if possible, instead of a 180 degree turn in volume. (Well sometimes that is the purpose I guess 😛) So smooth natural timing, natural transients in volume.
I think I mentioned everything, now onto tubes. Like I said, hybrid integrated amps have a blend of tube in the pre-section and solid state as power output (100Wpc for example), while all-tube amps often have either El34 power output tubes or KT88 output tubes. Both all-tube amps in this example are 50Wpc. After some research, it seems like EL34 tubes have a harschness in the treble, but the voices and instruments seem to have alot of color and texture. Possibly misses to much bass, but maybe I could cope with that? Subwoofer is always an option.
KT88 tubes should be more consistent in the frequency extremes, having more extended bass and better treble (less harsch?). Should provide a bit more punch at the expense of color, but might be more consistent and sound smoother, especially with treble. Have read somewhere however that KT88 tubes are highly unreliable and can be replaced by Sovtek 6550 tubes which are more reliable but provide the same sound. So that would be the difference between the two tubes. The hybrid amp seems to be the most dynamic and powerful one of the three, and has a good soundstage, but my guess is at the expensive of colour, although you can swap the tubes in the pre with either Jan Philips (warmer, more seductive, might give me the color I want?) or Philips 12AX7 pre-tubes, which give warmth as well and detail.
Finally the maintenance/reliability factor:
Amp will need to be on ~3 hours a day, quiet to moderate volume levels, rarely very loud. It should be reliable in this. How often would I need to change the tubes, and how can I make sure that I can change them in a safe manner. Some amplifiers have auto-bias, guess I need that. And how do I know it is time to change a tube?
So basically I can go for the hybrid amp with tubes in the pre-, and 100Wpc in the power output. Or a 50Wpc tube amp with different types of tubes, possibly supported by a seperate subwoofer.
I am looking forward to hear some suggestions about which amplifier would suit me best, and why!
Not sure if the correct word is tube or valve. Anyway.
I want a new amplifier. (who doesn't? :rofl: ) I would like to hear advice from tube experts (and the ones who had a tube amp in the past) on tube amplifiers in general.
I have looked at some tube amps, Jolida comes to mind, but also Unison Research and more expensive brands. Hybrid integrated amps have a blend of tube in the pre-section and solid state as power output (100Wpc for example), while all-tube amps often have either El34 power output tubes or KT88 output tubes. Both all-tube amps in this example are 50Wpc. I am not sure which one I will enjoy most.
Let me first tell you what I DO like, and what not.
-I currently use a 100Wpc solid state integrated amplifier, (the Scylla 80 S, old one but got recapped) which can produce deep and well controlled bass, has a wide soundstage, is fast and detailed. But emotion and texture is missing, there is no "color" to instruments so to speak, it mostly has cold tonality to everything, I hate that! I have Wharfedale 10.1 speakers. I play with a Linn turntable with a Benz element, which is a rich and fullbodied element, and has good bass retrieval. The reason I play with a turntable, is that I find it has more natural and smooth timing, and it has excellent depth and sense of space. You can hear where each instrument is coming from (love that) even during complex passages. Instruments and voices sound more alive with color and seem touchable with vinyl aswell, compared to digital. But the point is, with my current amplifier it still sounds cold and without much texture or color.
I heard Sonus Faber standmounts (warm speakers, bit polite but very controlled and with lots of airy space) combined with Naim pre+power amp 70W (dynamic amps with ok tonality) while using my turntable as the source, and the tonality was much better, bit warmer, but also voices and instruments had a "you are there" feeling with texture, and I love that feeling. But the Naim amplifier was a bit over-enthousiastic with the bass in my opinion, while the Sonus Faber speakers supposedly don't even have a strong bass. I know the amp shouldn't be to polite and not to analytical, otherwise it gets boring fast, but the bass was a bit to strong a few times in my opinion. This is my reference setup so to speak, which I don't own myself.
Okay, now my list of things I seek for in an amplifier:
Since you can't have everything in an amplifier, especially tube amps I also state in what areas I would be willing to compromise.
-No harsch treble at all times! It should be smooth, not rough and nail-scratching. I would be willing to even compromise with a slight roll off/rounding off the treble.
-No super enthousiastic bass please, it's nice if the bass can go deep and be punchy if that's on the recording, but the bass shouldn't be overly enthousiastic or forward. It should atleast display the texture of bass instruments and have the right tonality. For compromising reasons it would be okay if the bass would lack a bit of punch, I can always add more bass punch with a subwoofer right?
-The soundstage should be wide and deep, in an accurate way. I should be able to hear where individual instruments are placed, even in complex passages. The layers of the music should be unfolded, so to speak. It shouldn't get messy in complex passages, but keep things organized.
-I love emotion and texture, the "color" in instruments and voices. Rich and full with texture and tonality, not to polite, but certainly not to over-enthousiastic in dynamics. I guess these are honest dynamics?
-I would be willing to sacrifice detail for smooth natural timing or the points above. I don't need to hear every tiny little detail, the "color" is much more important as is the fluid natural timing.
-I prefer a relaxed warmth to an analytical fast cold tonality.
Now the artists that I listen to regularly. Looking at the above list of requirements, you would expect that I like acoustic music only right, considering the cliche's with tubes? Well that is not the case, although I do have some acoustic artists I like from time to time, mostly for background music.
- Artists I listen to often: Complex layered "progressive" rock, like Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson. If not familiar with them, think Pink Floyd 😉 Also some other music like Portishead and jazzy dance music, with sweet voices and a mix of electronic beats and acoustic instruments (yes it's recorded quite ok, not everything are electronic samples in this case, so it should have some tonality and texture aswell). But I can sacrifice on the thumpy electronic beats, can always add a subwoofer later if it bothers me. Some of these progressive rockartists have dynamic transients in volume, going from subtle to high volume very quickly. I like this transient to sound natural if possible, instead of a 180 degree turn in volume. (Well sometimes that is the purpose I guess 😛) So smooth natural timing, natural transients in volume.
I think I mentioned everything, now onto tubes. Like I said, hybrid integrated amps have a blend of tube in the pre-section and solid state as power output (100Wpc for example), while all-tube amps often have either El34 power output tubes or KT88 output tubes. Both all-tube amps in this example are 50Wpc. After some research, it seems like EL34 tubes have a harschness in the treble, but the voices and instruments seem to have alot of color and texture. Possibly misses to much bass, but maybe I could cope with that? Subwoofer is always an option.
KT88 tubes should be more consistent in the frequency extremes, having more extended bass and better treble (less harsch?). Should provide a bit more punch at the expense of color, but might be more consistent and sound smoother, especially with treble. Have read somewhere however that KT88 tubes are highly unreliable and can be replaced by Sovtek 6550 tubes which are more reliable but provide the same sound. So that would be the difference between the two tubes. The hybrid amp seems to be the most dynamic and powerful one of the three, and has a good soundstage, but my guess is at the expensive of colour, although you can swap the tubes in the pre with either Jan Philips (warmer, more seductive, might give me the color I want?) or Philips 12AX7 pre-tubes, which give warmth as well and detail.
Finally the maintenance/reliability factor:
Amp will need to be on ~3 hours a day, quiet to moderate volume levels, rarely very loud. It should be reliable in this. How often would I need to change the tubes, and how can I make sure that I can change them in a safe manner. Some amplifiers have auto-bias, guess I need that. And how do I know it is time to change a tube?
So basically I can go for the hybrid amp with tubes in the pre-, and 100Wpc in the power output. Or a 50Wpc tube amp with different types of tubes, possibly supported by a seperate subwoofer.
I am looking forward to hear some suggestions about which amplifier would suit me best, and why!
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