Valve Vs Solid State amps

[WishTree]

To add some context, when I did my first degree, which was in Electronics, in 1968-71 we did courses in valve technology and circuit design and transistor technology and circuit design and everybody on the course was building their own amps (and all kinds of other gadgets). And guess what! Some people thought valve amps sounded better and some thought transistor amps sounded better. So the debate has been running for over 40 years and from what I read it is no closer to being resolved now than it was then.

This is awesome! This thread also made me curious about the Mc Intosh 275 and as it happens that there is a lot of development / improvement in Valve side of things as well.

Do you think this is true? And would you consider that modern 275 is a step up over the vintage version?

Given your experience, it would be nice to know if there is a breaking step up in modern day valve amps vs the vintage amps.

 

[Covenanter]

I thought maybe valve amps were expensive because valves themselves were costly as they aren't used in anything like the volumes they used to be. However looking on the net it seems that valves are not particularly costly albeit I guess those used in high end audio kit may be. (It was quite nostalgic as I saw valves that were being used in the 1960s still available. I guess valve design stopped dead around 1970!)

I wonder if valve amps are what economists call "Giffin goods", ie things that become more attractive the more expensive they are. I had a secretary once who lusted after a dress she had seen in a Bond Street shop window that had an astronomical price tag. Then one day the shop put it in their sale at a reduced price and she said to me "It doesn't seem so attractive any more".

Chris

 

[Roby]

I had a secretary once who lusted after a dress she had seen in a Bond Street shop window that had an astronomical price tag. Then one day the shop put it in their sale at a reduced price and she said to me "It doesn't seem so attractive any more".

Chris

MMMMM women.... :rofl:

(sorry )

 

[CnoEvil]

:? mmm all this make me want organise a demo AMS Primo/35 or 50p....as the primo is a tube pré....

I know my dealer said it lost a little of his magic compared to the AMS....

But now reading this tread an a other French one where they actually talk a lot about this combo (an it is a tube/ss combo).

Made me really curious.....

Curiosity killed the cat (but in a nice way)!

You need good speakers, then a source and then......

 

[Roby]

:? mmm all this make me want organise a demo AMS Primo/35 or 50p....as the primo is a tube pré....

I know my dealer said it lost a little of his magic compared to the AMS....

But now reading this tread an a other French one where they actually talk a lot about this combo (an it is a tube/ss combo).

Made me really curious.....

Curiosity killed the cat (but in a nice way)! You need good speakers, then a source and then......

Curiusity doesn't hurt my wallet temptation does ....an be shure I'm more than happy with my new toy... but I expected it to be a fun experience ;-)

Beside it's financialy out of my leak for now even if I would like it verry much....because it's exactly like you say my priority lies elswer for now Speakers an source

 

[plastic penguin]

Go on, Roby, you know you want to... :bounce:

More seriously though, I think your amp would benefit from a better CDP (unless I'm missing something. That's a distinct possibility)

Anyway, I assume you amp comes upto scratch?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there, wouldn't the valve v transistor thing come down to imput source anything other than pure analogue would be a bit of a waste, if it's a cd player or mac book, it's still 1's and 0's so most of the benifit would be lost.

Ive considered a valve amp before as I love my fender guitar amp but always dismissed the benifit as I'm not a vinyl guy and tend towards a digital source.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi there, wouldn't the valve v transistor thing come down to imput source anything other than pure analogue would be a bit of a waste, if it's a cd player or mac book, it's still 1's and 0's so most of the benifit would be lost.

Ive considered a valve amp before as I love my fender guitar amp but always dismissed the benifit as I'm not a vinyl guy and tend towards a digital source.

Yes and no really. Based on my (very) limited knowledge of valve amps and my not considerably more with SS, what type of source can be influenced from brand to brand regardless of whether they are class A, valve or transistor.

Even though I have a very poor SS amp, and my previous amp was poorer there is some suggestion, based on my warped tenets, that Arcam is better with vinyl reproduction (slightly) than Leema.

Think there could be some mileage in your theory.

 

[Covenanter]

Hi there, wouldn't the valve v transistor thing come down to imput source anything other than pure analogue would be a bit of a waste, if it's a cd player or mac book, it's still 1's and 0's so most of the benifit would be lost.

Ive considered a valve amp before as I love my fender guitar amp but always dismissed the benifit as I'm not a vinyl guy and tend towards a digital source.

Not really, no. All amplifiers, valve or transistor, work with analogue signals so if you start with a digital source you pass the signal though a Digital to Analogue Converter (DAC) before amplification. If you have an analogue source you don't need to do that. So as far as amplifiers are concerned it's what they do with the analogue signal they are presented with that matters.

Of course there is a whole debate about whether analogue or digital sources are better and that's been running for decades too.

Chris

 

[Roby]

Go on, Roby, you know you want to... :bounce:

More seriously though, I think your amp would benefit from a better CDP (unless I'm missing something. That's a distinct possibility)

Anyway, I assume you amp comes upto scratch?

Oh yes I think my amp is amazing I think altrough I'm still in running in process.

an yes I'm allready thinking about my next upgrade....provably speakers first. An than cdp first I thought M6cd would be a fine not to expensive choice (i still do) but than I made the mistake looking arround an reading this made me interest to demo the AMScd & the Electro compagniet as Mascapur speak so highly about it.....

I'm a temptation victim

 

[Macspur]

Go on, Roby, you know you want to... :bounce:

More seriously though, I think your amp would benefit from a better CDP (unless I'm missing something. That's a distinct possibility)

Anyway, I assume you amp comes upto scratch?

Oh yes I think my amp is amazing I think altrough I'm still in running in process.

an yes I'm allready thinking about my next upgrade....provably speakers first. An than cdp first I thought M6cd would be a fine not to expensive choice (i still do) but than I made the mistake looking arround an reading this made me interest to demo the AMScd & the Electro compagniet as Mascapur speak so highly about it.....

I'm a temptation victim

Roby,

There would be an obvious synagy with the AMS CDP, but you won't be disappointed with the EMC1UP when the time comes... plus it's quite a bit cheaper than an AMS.

Cheers

Mac

 

[Electro]

Go on, Roby, you know you want to... :bounce:

More seriously though, I think your amp would benefit from a better CDP (unless I'm missing something. That's a distinct possibility)

Anyway, I assume you amp comes upto scratch?

Oh yes I think my amp is amazing I think altrough I'm still in running in process.

an yes I'm allready thinking about my next upgrade....provably speakers first. An than cdp first I thought M6cd would be a fine not to expensive choice (i still do) but than I made the mistake looking arround an reading this made me interest to demo the AMScd & the Electro compagniet as Mascapur speak so highly about it.....

I'm a temptation victim

Roby,

There would be an obvious synagy with the AMS CDP, but you won't be disappointed with the EMC1UP when the time comes... plus it's quite a bit cheaper than an AMS.

Cheers

Mac

I agree the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP is a one of the very best Cd players at any price , it just makes music sound real and exiting in a way that most players only dream of .

It's frequency response is almost ruler flat from 2HZ to 21.3 KHZ so no tailored responses to make it sound a certain way and the dynamics available are the best I have heard from any digital source including hi res .

I think a lot of it's superb performance can be attributed to it's fully discrete class A analogue output stage where a lot of time and effort has been spent getting it right rather than just chucking a couple cheap op amps in the box after D/A conversion like a lot of manufacturers do .

So like Mac I highly recommend you have a listen to one when you make your choice

Here is a review to whet your appetite .

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue51/Electrocompaniet.htm

 

[Macspur]

Go on, Roby, you know you want to... :bounce:

More seriously though, I think your amp would benefit from a better CDP (unless I'm missing something. That's a distinct possibility)

Anyway, I assume you amp comes upto scratch?

Oh yes I think my amp is amazing I think altrough I'm still in running in process.

an yes I'm allready thinking about my next upgrade....provably speakers first. An than cdp first I thought M6cd would be a fine not to expensive choice (i still do) but than I made the mistake looking arround an reading this made me interest to demo the AMScd & the Electro compagniet as Mascapur speak so highly about it.....

I'm a temptation victim

Roby,

There would be an obvious synagy with the AMS CDP, but you won't be disappointed with the EMC1UP when the time comes... plus it's quite a bit cheaper than an AMS.

Cheers

Mac

I agree the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP is a one of the very best Cd players at any price , it just makes music sound real and exiting in a way that most players only dream of .

It's frequency response is almost ruler flat from 2HZ to 21.3 KHZ so no tailored responses to make it sound a certain way and the dynamics available are the best I have heard from any digital source including hi res .

I think a lot of it's superb performance can be attributed to it's fully discrete class A analogue output stage where a lot of time and effort has been spent getting it right rather than just chucking a couple cheap op amps in the box after D/A conversion like a lot of manufacturers do .

So like Mac I highly recommend you have a listen to one when you make your choice

Here is a review to whet your appetite .

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue51/Electrocompaniet.htm

Couldn't put it better myself.

 

[ebentjerodt]

Hi Guys!

long time wihtout posting. I moved also into valve amps. I moved from ATC 50 active to SF Cremona M wiht a KR Audio AV 880 and then to my current Nirvana a Sanei 2A3/45 SET (Japanese hand made amp) with custom made speakers with Accuton mid/bass drivers and ATC tweeter.

I agree thta a good class A (Accuphase or Pass Labs) will be a good compromise. but if you want the real heaven IMHO SET is the way to go and probably one wiht 45 valves (emission labs, CX 345, Rahyeton box plate and if you are lucky and rich a 1930 perryman mesh)

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi Guys!

long time wihtout posting. I moved also into valve amps. I moved from ATC 50 active to SF Cremona M wiht a KR Audio AV 880 and then to my current Nirvana a Sanei 2A3/45 SET (Japanese hand made amp) with custom made speakers with Accuton mid/bass drivers and ATC tweeter.

I agree thta a good class A (Accuphase or Pass Labs) will be a good compromise. but if you want the real heaven IMHO SET is the way to go and probably one wiht 45 valves (emission labs, CX 345, Rahyeton box plate and if you are lucky and rich a 1930 perryman mesh)

Holy mains flex, where did you find this old dinosaur?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Guys!

long time wihtout posting. I moved also into valve amps. I moved from ATC 50 active to SF Cremona M wiht a KR Audio AV 880 and then to my current Nirvana a Sanei 2A3/45 SET (Japanese hand made amp) with custom made speakers with Accuton mid/bass drivers and ATC tweeter.

I agree thta a good class A (Accuphase or Pass Labs) will be a good compromise. but if you want the real heaven IMHO SET is the way to go and probably one wiht 45 valves (emission labs, CX 345, Rahyeton box plate and if you are lucky and rich a 1930 perryman mesh)

Good to hear back from you.....and that's a very interesting system you've ended up with.

Congratulations

*drinks*

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Congrats! The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

do you have a pic...?*blush*

 

[ebentjerodt]

jajajaja Hi PP!

from a guy in Japan tha sold old Japanes SET amps and other vintaje stuff. It is an amasig Bug!!! All top end components from Tango including intersatge. And as preamp/DAC a nice Audio Aero Capitole MKII ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

Is that so, punk....

 

[ebentjerodt]

Thank you Cno!!! It has been a very intersting Journey. SET amps are very special and not easy to match with rest of the sistem components. the speakers options is also very limited, but if you get this donde the magic is dificult to deny, it simple sound so natural, pure and relax withut mention the tridimensionality of the sound. it is for sure not perfect, as it has alot of weakness (bass, power, etc) but I am happy to do the compromise for waht I get in returne in other aspects.

 

[davedotco]

Congrats! The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

do you have a pic...?*blush*

Absolutely the opposite in fact......*stop*

My personal perspective is that most modern budget and 'mid-fi' all pretty much sounds the same, in capability if not presentation.

One way to get past this and get closer to the music is of course to use active louspeakers, another is to use low(ish) power valve amplifiers with simple, efficient loudspeakers with high quality drive units.

Wierd, eh.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Congrats! The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

do you have a pic...?*blush*

Absolutely the opposite in fact......*stop*

My personal perspective is that most modern budget and 'mid-fi' all pretty much sounds the same, in capability if not presentation.

One way to get past this and get closer to the music is of course to use active louspeakers, another is to use low(ish) power valve amplifiers with simple, efficient loudspeakers with high quality drive units.

Wierd, eh.

Don't get me rong Dave... My post was jist to play a little bit, just that.*biggrin*

we all like our toys, let it be actives, valves, transistors, digital, analogue... What ever!*biggrin*

*drinks*

 

[plastic penguin]

Congrats! The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

do you have a pic...?*blush*

Wierd, eh.

Never knew you were fluent in Norsk, Dave. That's a turn-up for the old plus fours.

 

[davedotco]

Congrats! The boys from the actives will not be happy with this move...*secret*

do you have a pic...?*blush*

Wierd, eh.

Never knew you were fluent in Norsk, Dave. That's a turn-up for the old plus fours.

Neither did I......*unknw*

I think the merlot had me 'speaking in tongues'.

No wonder Mrs DDC takes absolutely no notice of what I say......*kiss2*

 

[Vladimir]

Push pull annihilates any SET for performance and sound quality. A high efficiency speaker + valve amp system is for those that don't care for accuracy and performance, that just want something sounding and looking different, special, unique. And only with female jazz vocals and plucking guitars, mind you. Forget fullrange sound at high SPL and dynamic transients with classical or electronic music altogether.

Oh, a contraversy! *shok*

Carry on.