USB cable to DAC confusion over sound quality.

[spiny norman]

you're at the mercy of all the con-merchants selling you such lies, including sorry to say, What HiFi themselves.

I think describing the magazine's reviewers as 'con-merchants' and saying they are lying is probably somewhat harsh. Delusional and unwilling or unable to ask why they are hearing differences that science suggests shouldn't be there, that I'll give you!

I mean, you'd think if they heard differences they'd ask why, and attempt to convey the results of that investigation to their readers, not least because you'd hope that, as hi-fi enthusiasts, they'd be intrigued why they were hearing what they were.

Or is there a whole series of idealistic assumptions in what I have just written?

 

[ellisdj]

It can always be improved on so nothing wrong with serial tweakers - noone has it perfect.

From what I have seen and heard most of us are not even remotely close

 

[Green Bow]

What makes it worse is the many different sockets. I have a supposed quality USB for mini-B. Now the new Chord Mojo DAC uses USB with micro-B.

The two options I looked at are: the Supra USB 2.0, and the QED Reference USB.

Can you imagine how annoying it would be if you bought another USB cable and heard no upgrade? I know there is this distance selling regulation that allows us to try and return. I might give it a try. However if I get one with sealed packaging and I have to destroy that to open it. Amazon might not be happy. Even though technically you are allowed to audition stuff. Ebay would likely be even trickier to negotiate.

 

[ID.]

Every good scam is based on the buyers ignorance on the technology used. You can feed them literally any pseudo-science BS you made up while washing your car. Fun example here. It especially works with people suffering from Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

Ah, life. Another day in the savannah.

You can give whatever "theoretical" arguments you want, I know what I heard and there's no doubt there was a difference. The difference was so significant I'm sure I could pick it blind. Not that I'd actually bother verifying that with a blind test. Who's got time for that?

 

[Vladimir]

You can give whatever "theoretical" arguments you want, I know what I heard and there's no doubt there was a difference. The difference was so significant I'm sure I could pick it blind. Not that I'd actually bother verifying that with a blind test. Who's got time for that?

My exact words for years, but eventually the stubborn noggin came through.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I read somewhere that if you have a blue painting in the room with your hifi then it makes the hifi sound better! I also read that if you take photo of yourself and put it in freezer..and then listen to your hifi? It sounds better? I suggest take photo of usb..put camera in freezer..open fridge! Take out beer...drink beer...listen to the rain...ps..listening to hifi with glasses on? Remove them..sounds better? Less effective with headphones...hope this helps..

 

[cheeseboy]

I honestly don't know with the USB cables and if some a re better. No idea. I did say and keep saying, I did not hear a change when I bought a supposed adio-quality USB cable.

sounds like you've already tried. Best advice, don't worry about the usb cable (ironically, there isn't really anything as a hifi/audio usb cable, as usb only transmits data, and does so to a set standard, so it doesn't know what it's sending down it. The only people to use the term hifi/audio usb cable are unsuprisingly those that want to sell you expensive ones!) and just get on and listen to the music. Maybe take the money you were thinking about spending on the cable and just get more music.

 

[MajorFubar]

you're at the mercy of all the con-merchants selling you such lies, including sorry to say, What HiFi themselves.

I think describing the magazine's reviewers as 'con-merchants' and saying they are lying is probably somewhat harsh. Delusional and unwilling or unable to ask why they are hearing differences that science suggests shouldn't be there, that I'll give you!

I mean, you'd think if they heard differences they'd ask why, and attempt to convey the results of that investigation to their readers, not least because you'd hope that, as hi-fi enthusiasts, they'd be intrigued why they were hearing what they were.

Or is there a whole series of idealistic assumptions in what I have just written?

I thought long and hard before including them, but I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way, so with deep regret I've got to include them among the people who are knowlingly deceiving us.

 

[keeper of the quays]

you're at the mercy of all the con-merchants selling you such lies, including sorry to say, What HiFi themselves.

I think describing the magazine's reviewers as 'con-merchants' and saying they are lying is probably somewhat harsh. Delusional and unwilling or unable to ask why they are hearing differences that science suggests shouldn't be there, that I'll give you!

I mean, you'd think if they heard differences they'd ask why, and attempt to convey the results of that investigation to their readers, not least because you'd hope that, as hi-fi enthusiasts, they'd be intrigued why they were hearing what they were.

Or is there a whole series of idealistic assumptions in what I have just written?

I thought long and hard before including them, but I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way, so with deep regret I've got to include them among the people who are knowlingly deceiving us.

does this include co ax cables too? Or just usb cables?

 

[spiny norman]

I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way

http://www.whathifi.com/news/great-cable-debate-crossed-wires

 

[keeper of the quays]

I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way

http://www.whathifi.com/news/great-cable-debate-crossed-wires

I couldn't agree more Wth this blog..sound advice...listen then decide..as hifi kits gets more pricey..cables should do the same..i Was lucky enough to be given a pair of top of range LFD interconnects..it costs more than my amp and pre amp combined when new! Lol..so maybe my kit doesn't justify this..i wouldn't part with it...

 

[cheeseboy]

I couldn't agree more Wth this blog..sound advice...listen then decide..as hifi kits gets more pricey..cables should do the same..i Was lucky enough to be given a pair of top of range LFD interconnects..it costs more than my amp and pre amp combined when new! Lol..so maybe my kit doesn't justify this..i wouldn't part with it...

I disagree, that blog just reeks of lazyness and ignorance imho.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I couldn't agree more Wth this blog..sound advice...listen then decide..as hifi kits gets more pricey..cables should do the same..i Was lucky enough to be given a pair of top of range LFD interconnects..it costs more than my amp and pre amp combined when new! Lol..so maybe my kit doesn't justify this..i wouldn't part with it...

I disagree, that blog just reeks of lazyness and ignorance imho.

hehehe.fair enough...

 

[Vladimir]

does this include co ax cables too? Or just usb cables?

The carrier is irrelevant. If the signal is digital you won't get quieter violins from a cheap cable. As mentioned, you get typical digital problems (dropouts, noise)

Coax has its standards and tolerances you must meet (75 ohms). You can't use any old cable for this application.

 

[spiny norman]

That is below the belt!

I was thinking of posting the link earlier but thought poor Max had been punished enough for it by now.

The intention wasn't to punish anyone, but rather to illuminate the WHF thinking on the subject.

 

[chebby]

I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way

http://www.whathifi.com/news/great-cable-debate-crossed-wires

That is below the belt!

I was thinking of posting the link earlier but thought poor Andy had been punished enough for it by now.

I've bought a couple of 'boutique' cables lately (optical and mains) but I bought both for aesthetic/ergonomic/connectivity/feel-good/neatness reasons and would not make any technical claims for them improving sound quality. That would be daft because I know from my education (and career) that - for instance - two different optical cables, both undamaged, that meet the relevant industry standards, will behave exactly the same.

As for ethernet and USB cables, i've always bought Belkin from Argos. The last 5m ethernet cable cost me £9.99 about 5 years ago and it's still being used daily without trouble.

 

[chebby]

That is below the belt!

I was thinking of posting the link earlier but thought poor Andy had been punished enough for it by now.

The intention wasn't to punish anyone, but rather to illuminate the WHF thinking on the subject.

When the article was originally published there were an unprecedented 90+ (mostly negative) posts. They have all gone now, deleted along with all the other responses to all articles/blogs/reviews etc. at the time of the great website 'upgrade'.

Andy probably thought he was safe from it's resurrection what with there being no working site search facility

 

[MajorFubar]

I cannot believe people paid to do this for a living are so technically ignorant about the subject that they don't know deep down changing digital cables cannot influence the sound in an 'analogue' way

http://www.whathifi.com/news/great-cable-debate-crossed-wires

I've skim-read it, so apologies to WHF if I missed something, but isn't that mostly about analogue cables?

 

[MajorFubar]

To all the people who are open minded enough to think it through instead of believing all the marketing-bumph they read, think what the knock-on effect would be if these differences are real. Where do you stop? If you use a computer, are you absolutely sure you're using the best audiophile SATA cable between your hard drive and your motherboard? Actually what about those hard drives...do different drives sound different, do SSD drives inherrently sound better or worse than traditional hard-drives? Do USB sticks sound better? What about the CPU and the data-buses that shuttle all this data around...how can we be sure they don't make the sound brighter, bassier, affect the sound-stage depth, and so on?

You may think that's ridiculous talk, and I'd agree with you, so why's it so different when we're discussing what cable to shove in the USB socket.

 

[Vladimir]

You really need to catch up on JPlay and their miracle work. Covers all in your list.

 

[spiny norman]

When the article was originally published there were an unprecedented 90+ (mostly negative) posts. They have all gone now, deleted along with all the other responses to all articles/blogs/reviews etc. at the time of the great website 'upgrade'.

Andy probably thought he was safe from it's resurrection what with there being no working site search facility

I see: I was wondering who Max was, but I see you have edited your post now.

 

[chebby]

I see: I was wondering who Max was, but I see you have edited your post now.

Yes I initially thought the article was by Max Langridge then realised it was by Andy Madden.

 

[spiny norman]

Yes I initially thought the article was by Max Langridge then realised it was by Andy Madden.

Must admit I never really notice the names on the articles: perhaps I'm too used to the anonymity of the WHF review.

 

[ellisdj]

To all the people who are open minded enough to think it through instead of believing all the marketing-bumph they read, think what the knock-on effect would be if these differences are real. Where do you stop? If you use a computer, are you absolutely sure you're using the best audiophile SATA cable between your hard drive and your motherboard? Actually what about those hard drives...do different drives sound different, do SSD drives inherrently sound better or worse than traditional hard-drives? Do USB sticks sound better? What about the CPU and the data-buses that shuttle all this data around...how can we be sure they don't make the sound brighter, bassier, affect the sound-stage depth, and so on?

You may think that's ridiculous talk, and I'd agree with you, so why's it so different when we're discussing what cable to shove in the USB socket.

This is not silly at all its quite an interesting post because it's a yes to all of them

 

[Green Bow]

To all the people who are open minded enough to think it through instead of believing all the marketing-bumph they read, think what the knock-on effect would be if these differences are real. Where do you stop? If you use a computer, are you absolutely sure you're using the best audiophile SATA cable between your hard drive and your motherboard? Actually what about those hard drives...do different drives sound different, do SSD drives inherrently sound better or worse than traditional hard-drives? Do USB sticks sound better? What about the CPU and the data-buses that shuttle all this data around...how can we be sure they don't make the sound brighter, bassier, affect the sound-stage depth, and so on?

You may think that's ridiculous talk, and I'd agree with you, so why's it so different when we're discussing what cable to shove in the USB socket.

This is a good point.

I guess the thinking behind successful audio USB cables must be about eliminating the last point where data could be corrupted. I am not advocating audio quality USB cables I should say again. I am just thinking out loud.

I just don't understand why Pro-reviewers are seeing an upgrade with these cables, yet so many users see none.

I think I might have to get a shielded USB cable though. One like the QED Reference USB, because my Chord Mojo seems to need one. I get random clicks during playback. (Believe me the Mojo is a nightmare of issues.) Some other Mojo users found that quality shielded cables cured clicks when playing files of 192KHz. My clicks are with 44.1KHz FLAC. If I buy one of these cables though, I will absolutely report my finding here. If there is no audio upgrade I will say so, and vice-versa.