USB audio can never sound as good as CD

[lindsayt]

I went to the Linn Exakt demo and workshop at Scalford yesterday. I also visited sunbeamgls's room - where he was exhibiting his Exakted system.

My impressions were that Exakting your system will make more of an improvement than changing the digital source - for most people reading this - but less of a difference than changing your speakers - for most people reading this.

This means that I'd be confident that a USB computer based digital source with Exakt would sound better than a traditional CD player based system (without Exakt).

Cease and desist sir. They use ethernet cable. No USB used at all (see back of unit).

No. I'm talking about the Exakt software that Linn are going to give away for free to enthusiasts - as announced and demonstrated at the Scalford show. This is something new from Linn. You don't need to own any Linn hardware at all to use the Exakt software. There will be people using the Exakt software with a PC / laptop and USB multi-channel Dacs. EG this DAC for 4 way speakers: https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8

Come on Vladimir - get with the times. Stop thinking about Exakt in terms of legacy Linn hardware solutions. (Just joking here Vladimir I realise that most people won't be aware of what Linn's Scalford annoncement means yet. I think that this is a nice step forward from them).

 

[Vladimir]

I went to the Linn Exakt demo and workshop at Scalford yesterday. I also visited sunbeamgls's room - where he was exhibiting his Exakted system.

My impressions were that Exakting your system will make more of an improvement than changing the digital source - for most people reading this - but less of a difference than changing your speakers - for most people reading this.

This means that I'd be confident that a USB computer based digital source with Exakt would sound better than a traditional CD player based system (without Exakt).

Cease and desist sir. They use ethernet cable. No USB used at all (see back of unit).

No. I'm talking about the Exakt software that Linn are going to give away for free to enthusiasts - as announced and demonstrated at the Scalford show. This is something new from Linn. You don't need to own any Linn hardware at all to use the Exakt software. There will be people using the Exakt software with a PC / laptop and USB multi-channel Dacs. EG this DAC for 4 way speakers: https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8

Come on Vladimir - get with the times. Stop thinking about Exakt in terms of legacy Linn hardware solutions. (Just joking here Vladimir I realise that most people won't be aware of what Linn's Scalford annoncement means yet. I think that this is a nice step forward from them).

So essentially this is software for driver phase alignment in active setups. Kinda neat. You can test it since you have separate amplification and active setup.

Speaking of keeping up with tech, I like Linn's nerdy electronics and musical artist patronage of today more than the flat earth glory days of 70s-80s audio. When I look at their latest gear I don't see slight of hand 'special caps' etc. but actual engineering done.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I have been able to get about a 25% sound quality improvement from my system just from changing the version and optimising windows. Total cost to me was £145 and a lot of hours of work. I apprciate the suggestions from the other chap but its well beyond all that mate.

Windows generically is not good for serious audio. Lucky smarter people than me have done a lot of the optimisation work. I just then had to take to as extreme a level as possible.

That's why the music industry mostly uses Macs.

 

[ellisdj]

I have been able to get about a 25% sound quality improvement from my system just from changing the version and optimising windows. Total cost to me was £145 and a lot of hours of work. I apprciate the suggestions from the other chap but its well beyond all that mate.

Windows generically is not good for serious audio. Lucky smarter people than me have done a lot of the optimisation work. I just then had to take to as extreme a level as possible.

That's why the music industry mostly uses Macs.

Maybe - I bet that would also be the same though - the os hindering actual performance thats possible.

 

[andyjm]

As a computer hardware developer I can categorically say, that the statement "USB audio can never sound as good as CD" is incorrect.

CD Audio source is 2 Channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM. This means that the hardware in your CD player does not even need to cope with data rates exceeding 150KBps (1xCD speed).

I hope your hardware design is better than your maths.

16bits x 44.1Khz x 2 = 1.411Mbs (approx 1.5Mbs)

That would be 1,500Kbs not 150Kbs.

Those wretched decimal places are nothing but trouble.

CD at 1X is 153,600 bytes per second, or about 150KBp/s. Not to mention you forgot to do the conversions from bits to bytes and the to KB and MB.

With your maths this would workout as follows:

16bits x 44100 = 705600. => Convert to Bytes [705600/8 = 88200] => Convert to KB [88200/1024 = 86.132KB] => Multiply by the number of channels [86.132*2 = 172.26KBp/s]

***Correction... 16bits at 44.1Khz for both channels not per channel. So stereo sound on a CD is 86.132KBp/s (I might be wrong on this though)

Which I think we can all agree is a lot smaller than 1.5MB

Don't make start Quoting RFCs at you. I can't be bothered enough to go and find the Red Book, so lets not quible about the 22.26KBp/s. Just trust me on this. CD-ROM single speed is specified to read at about 150KBp/s

Ahh. I missed the B not b in your original note. You may well be right about yellowbook CD rom, but not for redbook CDs. The maths is as follows (spelling out units to be clear)

16 bits per sample x 44.1 thousand samples per second x 2 channels = 1.411 million bits per second

This isn't the whole story, the audio data on the CD is interleved with framing and error correction data. It is tough to be specific as the information is patchy on the web, but I have seen analysis that a 558 bit data frame only yields 192 bits of audio data. That would imply that the data is being read off the disc at:

1.411 x 558 / 192 = approximately 4.1 million bits per second

 

[tonky]

I have been able to get about a 25% sound quality improvement from my system just from changing the version and optimising windows. Total cost to me was £145 and a lot of hours of work. I apprciate the suggestions from the other chap but its well beyond all that mate.

Windows generically is not good for serious audio. Lucky smarter people than me have done a lot of the optimisation work. I just then had to take to as extreme a level as possible.

Hi - Ellisdj - I know you have said what you have done (25% improvement - amazing!) - But could you be a bit/lot more specific about what exactly you did to get this improvement (for not an unreasonable amount of money). - Or point me to a site which reveals it etc

cheers Tonky

 

[ellisdj]

Hi Tonky - I get a lot of flack on here for writing about the subject too much, so I dont bother much anymore

If you go on the jplay forum there is a lot of info from people that are always active trying to get better sound. Learnt it all from there

I have recently moved to Windows Server 2016 as an OS.

I am too much a pc lamo to be able to run WS2016 in core mode which has a lot of Windows non audio specific stuff already off. What I have been doing is getting WS2016 GUI mode down to a more core like state with optimisations.

Using Server 2016 also allowed me to use Audiophile Optimiser Software which is a very good tool and the sound signature options are great for fine tuning.

I also use Fidelizer and Process Lasso for their own specific optimisations to Windows CPU and Process. Then I have customised Computer Audio Design Windows scripts these were orignally for Windows 8 to work for WS2016 to get more performance.

This is only good if you use the computer purely as an audio transport - if you want a multi purpose computer then most of this wont be for you.

However I have got some gremlins I need to get to the bottom of, playback glitches - possibly caused by IRQ priority - I will check that so I appreciate the heads up on that - thanks

 

[Vladimir]

Hi Tonky - I get a lot of flack on here for writing about the subject too much, so I dont bother much anymore

If you go on the jplay forum there is a lot of info from people that are always active trying to get better sound. Learnt it all from there

I have recently moved to Windows Server 2016 as an OS.

I am too much a pc lamo to be able to run WS2016 in core mode which has a lot of Windows non audio specific stuff already off. What I have been doing is getting WS2016 GUI mode down to a more core like state with optimisations.

Using Server 2016 also allowed me to use Audiophile Optimiser Software which is a very good tool and the sound signature options are great for fine tuning.

I also use Fidelizer and Process Lasso for their own specific optimisations to Windows CPU and Process. Then I have customised Computer Audio Design Windows scripts these were orignally for Windows 8 to work for WS2016 to get more performance.

This is only good if you use the computer purely as an audio transport - if you want a multi purpose computer then most of this wont be for you.

However I have got some gremlins I need to get to the bottom of, playback glitches - possibly caused by IRQ priority - I will check that so I appreciate the heads up on that - thanks

You're simply wasting your time mate. Sade sounds good on ANYTHING. *kiss2*