Upgrade From Denon AVR x2000 with music in mind

[Rootsboy]

I currently run a Denon AVR X2000 5.1 system with Kef LS's front L/R, Kef R200c center, Mordaunt short 302's as surrounds and a BK XXLS400 Sub.

I listen to internet radio, spotify, lossless files from my macbook, vinyl of a Technics sl2010 with Nagaoka MP11 stylus, using a Cyrus3 as a preamp, also cd from a Marantz cd63se. i can see most of my future music listening being via lossless or streaming.

I am more then happy with the movie set up, and i am kind happy for the moment with the music side, but i think the Kefs need more.

So looking a future upgrade options:

1. If possible, add power amp to zone2 pre out for front R/L, but i have no idea what amp i should be looking for right now, this could also be used or any future receiver upgrade i may make.

2. Buy a Marantz SR 6009/7009 (from what i have read, these look like good contenders for improving the music side of things, but would if feel like enough of a differance from the Denon AVR X2000?)

3. Really push the boat out and go for a Anthem MRX310/510 (if i did this i think i would need run internet radio and spotify via my laptop, until i could afford some kind of new Dac which would have these options.)

Thanks in advance for any opinions to my delema.

 

[Leeps]

I can certainly vouch for Anthem as far as stereo music is concerned. I was really impressed by the tight bass and very foot-tappy timing of the Anthem (albeit the MRX710) at the Bristol show.

There are quite a few SR7009 owners here, so no doubt they'll chip in at some point.

Although these aren't cheap receivers, they tend to get discounted a little quicker than their stereo only counterparts that usually work on a slower replacement schedule.

It would make an unusual and interesting review by WHF if they could ever manage to borrow the Marantz SR7009, the Anthem MRX510 and maybe the Arcam AVR-450 (another receiver usually noted for its musicality) and purely test their merits for stereo sources.

i can't be the only one who wants access to multi-channel but primarily uses their system for 2-channel but also endeavour to keep the box count down.

 

[CnoEvil]

Personally, I like the mix of Arcam/Kef, so that would be my recommendation

 

[jerryapril]

Yep, my next upgrade will be Denon X7200W with a pair of MA Gold GX300 both discounted. All the features and amazing sound no stereo setup come even close at that price.

Now hear what bb is gonna say when he spots this.

 

[Rootsboy]

one of my big problems is not being able to demo equipment now i live in Spain, i may get a chance some time this year if i head to the U.K. but unsure as yet. so for this reason i really do rely on forums like this for knowlageable infomation.

i currently listen to a wide mix of music from rock,soul,blues,reggie,dub, electronic and techno both old and modern. updating my equipment has really got me exited about listing to music using my main hifi rather then in the car, via iPod or in front of my computer with monitor's.

I have been enjoying the extra depth the bk sub has been working, for music i am currently running the system using audyssey but without the dynamic eq and excluding the front L/R, so i guess the audyssey eq is just controlling the sub.

I mainly listen at levels from about 50 to 60 on the dial, if i say listen to some massive attack all sounds nice at these levels, but if I play something from queens of the stone age, everything can get a little lost when things get crazy.

I did try the old Cyrus3 with the Kef's and it did sound cleaner and with more punch and control then the Denon.

But the Denon has got me more involved with the modern way of listing to music, and i do like the internet radio, and spotify for me living where i do, makes me feel like spending all day in the listening post of a record shop.

Its a great tool for getting to know what you like before going ahead and buying the cd or hi-res file.

 

[Leeps]

The only caveat about the Anthem given your comment about 'net radio and Spotify is that it's pretty much devoid of any streaming features. But these aren't difficult to add in themselves.

Spotify Connect can be had from an £80 Amazon Fire (in the UK anyway) using an optical cable to let your AVR do the DA conversion.

Or you could use a full-blown streamer like the Sonos Connect, Bluesound Node or Pioneer N50.

The Anthem is purely a very good multichannel amp with most effort directed at high quality components and excellent room eq software. But if you need to add extra for other components to meet your needs in terms of sources, it's worth bearing that in mind with the budget. I don't see this as too much of a negative because streaming is changing so rapidly anyway. It's almost better to allocate a smaller budget for components that might become outdated more quickly.

 

[abacus]

Also try any of the Pioneer Home Cinema Amplifiers that have been tuned by Air Studios (A professional music recording studio).

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Rootsboy]

The only caveat about the Anthem given your comment about 'net radio and Spotify is that it's pretty much devoid of any streaming features. But these aren't difficult to add in themselves.

Spotify Connect can be had from an £80 Amazon Fire (in the UK anyway) using an optical cable to let your AVR do the DA conversion.

Or you could use a full-blown streamer like the Sonos Connect, Bluesound Node or Pioneer N50.

The Anthem is purely a very good multichannel amp with most effort directed at high quality components and excellent room eq software. But if you need to add extra for other components to meet your needs in terms of sources, it's worth bearing that in mind with the budget. I don't see this as too much of a negative because streaming is changing so rapidly anyway. It's almost better to allocate a smaller budget for components that might become outdated more quickly.

I am starting to think along these line's. i cant really see me ipping into the whole Atmos thing, i may just think about going to 7.1 as i have some spare speakers and space behind that will allow for good 7.1 placement and i am sure i will be happy for a good few more years with that. and i would rather buy a good Receiver/Amp with the idea of keeping it for a good many years, so the idea of a well built unit with good components and i nice sound is what is doing it for me.

And yes streaming and internet radio can easily be implemented externally which would be considered the better way of doing it by some. either by the options motioned above or just via my laptop routed through a Native Instruments Audio 8 which i could use as a DAC for now.

As mentioned it would be nice to see comments and reviews of the new leaders in the musical pack, Anthem, Arcam and Marantz.

I have not read many great things about pioneer, but i could be wrong and just not done enough digging there. i have a feeling that Arcam, even though considered very good with the Kef's my not quite be right for me, i do like clarity and punch, and it may be a bit to laid back for me.

The Anthem does seem to be pointing in the right direction, but would love to know how the Marantz SR6009/7009 fairs up to both the Anthem MRX310/510 and possibly others.

Also i would love to hear from anyone that has added a external two channel amp to any lesser receiver, like my Denon AVR X2000 and the results.

Any other opnions greatley appreciated.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have a feeling that Arcam, even though considered very good with the Kef's my not quite be right for me, I do like clarity and punch, and it may be a bit to laid back for me.

I suppose it depends on whether music or films are the priorty.

Arcam have always put the quality (investment/design) of delivering 2 channel at the heart of their AVRs. This was often at the expense of the "frills" you get with some other brands.

I heard one of the top Anthem AV combinations (Statement D2v/P5) from 3 or 4 years ago, and imo it was not as musical as the Arcam (AV999/P777), but bettered it for film.

Though saying all that, I would probably go with the Anthem, if Arcam was off the table.

 

[Leeps]

Also try any of the Pioneer Home Cinema Amplifiers that have been tuned by Air Studios (A professional music recording studio).

Hope this helps

Bill

As a Pioneer AVR owner myself, I can certainly see their appeal. Their multi-channel sound is truly awesome (music & movies). They're fast, sharp and dynamic. Although Pioneers have many stereo detractors, I find them pretty good to my taste with many genres of music.

But there are misgivings over Pioneer AVR's. The app control, while brilliant to use has not been supported by Pioneer beyond iOS7, so my 3-year old AVR has lost much of its control and tweakability which leads me to its other main negative...the truly dire remote.

Having lost app control, I'm entirely dependent on the remote. It's cheap and nasty, the volume buttons don't work (so I'm using my Pioneer Bluray player remote to do that) and its very unintuitive to use. And the top of the line SC-LX88 uses the same crummy wand.

My Pioneer AVR was originally £800. I bought an ex-demo for £500 and I'm not best pleased that after just 3 years many of its functions have been lost. I'd be positively hopping mad had I bought a £2k top model. My AVR's sound remains excellent for the money, but given my experiences above I'd think twice before buying another Pioneer.

 

[bigboss]

Bear in mind that Anthem MRX310 is 5.1 only, so not suitable for you as you're after a 7.1 system. So MRX510 is the minimum you need if Anthem.

I had decided to buy the Anthem MRX510 until Dolby Atmos came along. I've now got Marantz SR7009. I am not disappointed one bit. Simply superb with music as well as movies. It's difficult to compare Anthem and Marantz as I listened to them in different demo rooms with different speakers. All I can say is that the Marantz is no slouch in front of Anthem. It's cheaper with more features as well.

 

[bigboss]

Yep, my next upgrade will be Denon X7200W with a pair of MA Gold GX300 both discounted. All the features and amazing sound no stereo setup come even close at that price.

Now hear what bb is gonna say when he spots this.

I haven't demoed the 7200. Are the extra features over the 5200 / Marantz SR7009 of use to you? Have you compared the AV receivers? Will be interesting to know your thoughts.

 

[abacus]

The only caveat about the Anthem given your comment about 'net radio and Spotify is that it's pretty much devoid of any streaming features. But these aren't difficult to add in themselves.

Spotify Connect can be had from an £80 Amazon Fire (in the UK anyway) using an optical cable to let your AVR do the DA conversion.

Or you could use a full-blown streamer like the Sonos Connect, Bluesound Node or Pioneer N50.

The Anthem is purely a very good multichannel amp with most effort directed at high quality components and excellent room eq software. But if you need to add extra for other components to meet your needs in terms of sources, it's worth bearing that in mind with the budget. I don't see this as too much of a negative because streaming is changing so rapidly anyway. It's almost better to allocate a smaller budget for components that might become outdated more quickly.

I am starting to think along these line's. i cant really see me ipping into the whole Atmos thing, i may just think about going to 7.1 as i have some spare speakers and space behind that will allow for good 7.1 placement and i am sure i will be happy for a good few more years with that. and i would rather buy a good Receiver/Amp with the idea of keeping it for a good many years, so the idea of a well built unit with good components and i nice sound is what is doing it for me.

And yes streaming and internet radio can easily be implemented externally which would be considered the better way of doing it by some. either by the options motioned above or just via my laptop routed through a Native Instruments Audio 8 which i could use as a DAC for now.

As mentioned it would be nice to see comments and reviews of the new leaders in the musical pack, Anthem, Arcam and Marantz.

I have not read many great things about pioneer, but i could be wrong and just not done enough digging there. i have a feeling that Arcam, even though considered very good with the Kef's my not quite be right for me, i do like clarity and punch, and it may be a bit to laid back for me.

The Anthem does seem to be pointing in the right direction, but would love to know how the Marantz SR6009/7009 fairs up to both the Anthem MRX310/510 and possibly others.

Also i would love to hear from anyone that has added a external two channel amp to any lesser receiver, like my Denon AVR X2000 and the results.

Any other opnions greatley appreciated.

The Pioneer upmarket AV Receivers have won more awards then most, and even if they don't always win group tests, they are always in the Top 3, so I am surprised you have found most of the reviews you have seen to be negative.

One word of warning (Particularly if it has been tuned by Air Studios) it presents sound (Music and Movies) as orignal (Warts & All) so if a recording has been made bad, it will sound bad (Some other manufactures AV Receivers smooth out the bad bits) however there are settings available to compensate for this. (I personally have always found Denon to be smooth and lifeless and not presenting the sound as is, so perhaps the Pioneer may not suit you)

Arcam where always great with music, but poor with AV (The AVR600 was a real cracker with music) however after listening to the new models, then I have afraid they have gone backwards, being poor with both Music and AV. (To my ears anyway)

If adding an additional amplifier it is best to stay with the same manufacture, as the characteristics will be similar. (Unlike professional products Hi Fi manufactures tend to engineer a particular type of sound into their equipment rather than acting a piece of straight wire with gain)

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[abacus]

Also try any of the Pioneer Home Cinema Amplifiers that have been tuned by Air Studios (A professional music recording studio).

Hope this helps

Bill

As a Pioneer AVR owner myself, I can certainly see their appeal. Their multi-channel sound is truly awesome (music & movies). They're fast, sharp and dynamic. Although Pioneers have many stereo detractors, I find them pretty good to my taste with many genres of music.

But there are misgivings over Pioneer AVR's. The app control, while brilliant to use has not been supported by Pioneer beyond iOS7, so my 3-year old AVR has lost much of its control and tweakability which leads me to its other main negative...the truly dire remote.

Having lost app control, I'm entirely dependent on the remote. It's cheap and nasty, the volume buttons don't work (so I'm using my Pioneer Bluray player remote to do that) and its very unintuitive to use. And the top of the line SC-LX88 uses the same crummy wand.

My Pioneer AVR was originally £800. I bought an ex-demo for £500 and I'm not best pleased that after just 3 years many of its functions have been lost. I'd be positively hopping mad had I bought a £2k top model. My AVR's sound remains excellent for the money, but given my experiences above I'd think twice before buying another Pioneer.

I have an Android phone and tablet using the Pioneer icontrol AV5 app with my SX-LX87 AV Unit, and the only thing it can't control are the initial settings and MACC, so I am surprised that you are having problems controlling your system just because it is Apple. (Are you sure you are using the very latest App for your phone)

Due to the amount of features, hardware remotes will always be complex and confusing without access to a screen, but that's just a downside of having so many features on the unit.

Bill

 

[michael hoy]

I have an Android phone and tablet using the Pioneer icontrol AV5 app with my SX-LX87 AV Unit, and the only thing it can't control are the initial settings and MACC, so I am surprised that you are having problems controlling your system just because it is Apple. (Are you sure you are using the very latest App for your phone)

Due to the amount of features, hardware remotes will always be complex and confusing without access to a screen, but that's just a downside of having so many features on the unit.

Bill

I have a SC-LX85 and use the AVControl 5 app on both Android and Apple with no problems.

I also have not found any issues with the two remotes that came with it.

I have had Denon and Yamaha receivers in the past and the last two have been Pioneer.

Set up correctly the Pioneer is excellent for Movies and very good for music, I use Monitor Audio Apex speakers so use direct and not pure direct for stereo listening due to needing the sub.

I have also recently added an Antimode for the bass management and this has made a huge difference.

I would definately recommend you demo a Pioneer but, and it is a big but, make sure the dealer has set it up correctly.

 

[Rootsboy]

Bear in mind that Anthem MRX310 is 5.1 only, so not suitable for you as you're after a 7.1 system. So MRX510 is the minimum you need if Anthem.

I had decided to buy the Anthem MRX510 until Dolby Atmos came along. I've now got Marantz SR7009. I am not disappointed one bit. Simply superb with music as well as movies. It's difficult to compare Anthem and Marantz as I listened to them in different demo rooms with different speakers. All I can say is that the Marantz is no slouch in front of Anthem. It's cheaper with more features as well.

This is a interesting quote, as the current cost of a Marantz SR7009 is just under a grand with all the bells and whistles, and the Anthem is considerable more expensive, i could even think about adding 2 channel amp to the Marantz in the future is i was not satisfied.

The thing that is really interesting me with the Anthem, is the room correction software. i currently like what Audyssey has done with integrating the sub on with the Kef's, its at that point where you only know that its on, when you turn it off, but it does bring that extension i want. i can only imaging that the Anthem software is going to improve upon this no end, but also the higher level Audyssey XT32 on the Marantz will also be a step up.

Abacus i must admit my path has only led me to look into the Receivers that i mentioned in the original question, i had not really thought about Pioneers up until now, i think i had quickly checked out a review or two which mentioned that they did not do to well on the music side. but now it looks like i should do some more digging.

Maybe their sound would be ok for me, i have been quite happy at times to listen to music via my laptop running though a pair of Adam AX5 near field monitors which are very revealing.

As for controlling, i have opted for a harmony programable remote, which helps with all these multiple boxes.

 

[Esra]

I would go with Pioneer LX 57/58 especially with Kef R-Series they have great synergy.Very clean sounding AVR and entertaining sound.No brightness problems as it is easily adjustable to any speaker via x-curve in app and doesn´t compromise sound.

 

[bigboss]

Personally, I found the Pioneer to be devoid of a soul with music (as they call it: "clinical") but very exciting with movies. Demo your options as there are many happy customers as well.

 

[Rootsboy]

I would go with Pioneer LX 57/58 especially with Kef R-Series they have great synergy.Very clean sounding AVR and entertaining sound.No brightness problems as it is easily adjustable to any speaker via x-curve in app and doesn´t compromise sound.

I notice that the LX58 is using class D amps, i am sure i i read somewhere that the pioneer class d integrated amps work quite well with the Kef LS50's so i may put this now on my short list.

I think i am going to visit some friends and family in the U.K. this summer, so i think i will try and arrange some demos then.

 

[JohnKK]

I think that the most upgrade for music you will have if you add stereo amp to your setup, everything else will be slightly better for music and slightly better for movies, with pioneer amp even much better for movies and that is not what you want to achieve.

With stereo amps goes also conviniance problems -additional box and if you need standalone DAC -two boxes. But it is a matter of how far would you like to go with improving music duties...

 

[Rootsboy]

I think that the most upgrade for music you will have if you add stereo amp to your setup, everything else will be slightly better for music and slightly better for movies, with pioneer amp even much better for movies and that is not what you want to achieve.

With stereo amps goes also conviniance problems -additional box and if you need standalone DAC -two boxes. But it is a matter of how far would you like to go with improving music duties...

Yes that was my other idea, was thinking of adding something like a Marantz MM7025 or similar via the Zone2 Pre out On the Denon AVR X2000 to just drive the front L/R. then if i do upgrade the receiver in the future i will already have a 2channel amp i can use with it.

I am still not sure if i can use the Zone 2 Pre out like this though on this receiver, i will need to work out if it is possible.

 

[Laurens_B]

I don't think it is possible to play HDMI sources on Zone 2, you should look that up in the manual of the X2000.

 

[Rootsboy]

Ok i have been away giving the new reciver upgrade some thought, i was mainly giving it some time to see what was going to happen with DTS-X and the new HDMI2.2

Anyway i still feel that the qaulity of the music is what i am after right now, and i can not see myself moving to have more then a 5.1 system over the next few years, and i am happy with my new zone2 in the kitchen. i am eaither thinking of buying a Marantz SR7008 which i can get at a really good price of 650 pounds or a Anthem MRX510 at around 1300 pound via Italy.

The Anthem would be double the price, but i guess better for the music side, but with the Marantz being at suce a good price, maybe it is a option to just get this, have a nice reciver for the next 3 or so years, until all the 4k, DTS-X things sort themselfs out, then sell it and get what ever the new Anthem maybe sometime in the future?

maybe by then the Anthem can do room correction for zone 2, my kitchen really does not have the best acoustics