TrevC
Well-known member
andyjm said:
I filled my boots with different wattage Philips CFLs at 10p each from Morrisons. Years later only one has failed. Not bad really. :O)
I filled my boots with different wattage Philips CFLs at 10p each from Morrisons. Years later only one has failed. Not bad really. :O)
Jota180 said:
Why on earth would I bother doing that? I have passed on my experience, not theory, of using a Voltage Regulator that has; saved us money on electricity [10% or more], not compromised the performance of anything [save for a very early energy saving bulb] and will hopefully keep equipment and appliances working for longer.
TrevC
Well-known member
Covenanter
Well-known member
Facts:
Power consumption is proportional to voltage there if you reduce voltage you reduce power consumption and therefore bills. It's a linear relationship and therefore 10% voltage reduction = 10% power reduction.
However, things that use a resistive load to produce, for example, heat will now take longer to work effectively. Power across a resisitive load = V x V / R so the output is reduced by the square of the voltage reduction. So a reduction from 240V to 220V on an electric fire would produce about 16% less heat, which is a lot. So you will have to run them for longer which will increase bills.
Conclusions:
Devices where the "surplus" voltage is wasted, i.e. goes simply to heat the equipment, will run more cheaply and just as well with one of these regulators. They may also last longer, although that is not completely clear.
Devices which produce heat from the electricty will produce less energy and therefore will take longer to do their jobs. It is conceivable that, for example, a cold fill washing machine or dishwasher might not get up to temperature in the time allowed in the cycle and may wash less efficiently. Electric kettles, heaters, ovens, immersion heaters, etc. will definitely take longer to work.
These devices can be useful in the right environment. It will depend on the mix of electric equipment that you have in your home. If you heat using electricty (as I do) it won't save you any money in that area and indeed might make your heating inefficient or even inadequate. If on the other hand you don't use much electricity for heat, no electric heating, hot fill washing machine or dishwasher, then you will save money.
Whether it is worth the cost of the installation will depend on how much electricty you use and what type of electric equipment you have.
Chris
Power consumption is proportional to voltage there if you reduce voltage you reduce power consumption and therefore bills. It's a linear relationship and therefore 10% voltage reduction = 10% power reduction.
However, things that use a resistive load to produce, for example, heat will now take longer to work effectively. Power across a resisitive load = V x V / R so the output is reduced by the square of the voltage reduction. So a reduction from 240V to 220V on an electric fire would produce about 16% less heat, which is a lot. So you will have to run them for longer which will increase bills.
Conclusions:
Devices where the "surplus" voltage is wasted, i.e. goes simply to heat the equipment, will run more cheaply and just as well with one of these regulators. They may also last longer, although that is not completely clear.
Devices which produce heat from the electricty will produce less energy and therefore will take longer to do their jobs. It is conceivable that, for example, a cold fill washing machine or dishwasher might not get up to temperature in the time allowed in the cycle and may wash less efficiently. Electric kettles, heaters, ovens, immersion heaters, etc. will definitely take longer to work.
These devices can be useful in the right environment. It will depend on the mix of electric equipment that you have in your home. If you heat using electricty (as I do) it won't save you any money in that area and indeed might make your heating inefficient or even inadequate. If on the other hand you don't use much electricity for heat, no electric heating, hot fill washing machine or dishwasher, then you will save money.
Whether it is worth the cost of the installation will depend on how much electricty you use and what type of electric equipment you have.
Chris
Covenanter said:
Good post.
Although I would like to add that if you have an overvoltage at 250V+ coming in (as I do) then an optimizer reducing that voltage by 10% will not cause your kettle to boil more slowly than the manufacturer intended, and your electric fire will also perform to the manufacturer's spec.
"Currently" (no pun intended) my 3KW kettle is pumping out 3.39KW (253V x 13.4A) which is nice in terms of a quick boil but well above manufacturer's spec. due to the over voltage.
@relocated (and others). I dislike arguments. Happy for those wishing to regulate/reduce voltages. But. When simple physics/calculation/common sense is.contradicted,.then these posts become frustrating.
Heating & cooking etc out of the equation and claimed 10% electricity savings??? My major electricity use is through a tumble dryer, kettle, washing machine etc - those devices which would generate more heat in a given time (against a lower voltage) and therefore would not save anything. And do I measure my electric??? My bills go up and I dont count/compare units because sometimes the weather from one year to another changes. There is no sensible way I could compare consecutive electeicity bills and deduce I had saved 10%.
Several engineers have explained that most equipment will not run detrementally with higher voltage. A few may have a reduced life. There are far too many variables to claim significant cost/lifetime savings but with all the facts before us some may wish to invest. Thats fine.
But for goodness sake dont make exagerated claims which make the whole subject smell of snake oil. The OP was careful to simply quote some facts. Lets interpret these facts with a little intelligence.
Heating & cooking etc out of the equation and claimed 10% electricity savings??? My major electricity use is through a tumble dryer, kettle, washing machine etc - those devices which would generate more heat in a given time (against a lower voltage) and therefore would not save anything. And do I measure my electric??? My bills go up and I dont count/compare units because sometimes the weather from one year to another changes. There is no sensible way I could compare consecutive electeicity bills and deduce I had saved 10%.
Several engineers have explained that most equipment will not run detrementally with higher voltage. A few may have a reduced life. There are far too many variables to claim significant cost/lifetime savings but with all the facts before us some may wish to invest. Thats fine.
But for goodness sake dont make exagerated claims which make the whole subject smell of snake oil. The OP was careful to simply quote some facts. Lets interpret these facts with a little intelligence.
RobinKidderminster said:
Firstly I have not, did not, post for the purpose of argument. I posted about my real life EXPERIENCE. If I tell you that our electricity bills have seen a certain saving then that is EXACTLY the case and I'll thank you NOT to question my honesty.
Our use of electricity is very easy to monitor and therefore very easy to work out savings. In the last year we have installed an instant 'boiling' kitchen tap so no longer use a kettle. This has also saved money on electric consumption, the % I know not and care not because it is so convenient.
So have your arguments you technically proficient fellows, just don't go questioning my honesty.
Sorry relocated. I (honesrly) did not question your honesty. My only point was that you claimed to save more than 10% electric-city by using a voltage regulator. My question was how can you measure such a saving when the weather and other life style changes will have a significant effect. Has your instant boil device effected your bill more than the regulator? I would (like another) like to know which equipment was 'regulated' leading to an overall saving of 10% elecrricity. You must admit that Government & power companies would look very carefully at devices giving this kind of savings when (I suspect) their current initiatives of energy monitors etc is highly unlikely to give this kind of saving. Cheers
PS - Googling a few 'green' sites whilst not conclusive, concensis seems to be that these devices are unlikely to give significant savings - this being 'whole house' systems offering regulated supply voltages.
PS - Googling a few 'green' sites whilst not conclusive, concensis seems to be that these devices are unlikely to give significant savings - this being 'whole house' systems offering regulated supply voltages.
Robin,
You continue to question my honesty. If you cannot see this then you shouldn't have face to face conversations with people otherwise someone, sometime will give you more than a harsh word.
I'm not interested in justifying myself, because I have the satisfaction of knowing what savings have happened. Especially given that the Regulator was not purchased for electricity savings. My priorities were the control of excess voltage as presented at every check we had made [and even worse surges that our area suffers from], then the possibility of reduced burn out of appliances and lastly the possibility of electric saving.
DO NOT bother to address me further in this thread because I shall not look in on it again.
You continue to question my honesty. If you cannot see this then you shouldn't have face to face conversations with people otherwise someone, sometime will give you more than a harsh word.
I'm not interested in justifying myself, because I have the satisfaction of knowing what savings have happened. Especially given that the Regulator was not purchased for electricity savings. My priorities were the control of excess voltage as presented at every check we had made [and even worse surges that our area suffers from], then the possibility of reduced burn out of appliances and lastly the possibility of electric saving.
DO NOT bother to address me further in this thread because I shall not look in on it again.
TrevC
Well-known member
relocated said:
Most electricity consumption is by appliances that produce heat. Your voltage regulator will save no energy when used by such appliances, however If you use a lot of refrigeration then there may be savings to be made there. I would set it to 230 volts, because there is an optimum voltage for induction motors and that will probably be 230 volts for an EU appliance unless it is very old.
Nobody's questioning your honesty.
bigboss
Moderator
Warned against face to face conversations! Blimey. I am happy to conclude my thoughts on this one and I regret that a fellow forumite has been upset by comments. I suggest googling and make up your own mind ignoring rude and offensive comments that I make.
Cheers to all.
Cheers to all.
Anderson said:
Ah, Mr. Anderson, I see you are as predictable in this world as you are in the other.
steve_1979
Well-known member
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