TX-NR709 - Poor stereo sound quality

[bonjov]

Hi all,

My current system consists of a Panasonic DMP-BDT110 bluray player, Pioneer DA-565A SACD player, Panasonic 50" P50GT30B TV , Pioneer DVR 545HX dvd recorder , sky HD box, xtreamer media player, mission m74 and m71 speakers and of course the Onkyo TX-NR709 av amp.

Firstly the sound quality from any source in digital surround is excellent and Im quite happy with it.

But the stereo setting and direct setting on the amp from any source including usb is terrible.

Ive tried different analogue, coaxial, hdmi and optical cables, different settings on the amp, updating the firmware, factory resetting and nothing works.

Is this "normal" for this ampifier?

My old Yamaha DSP-AX630SE AV AMP was outstanding in comparison.

Any help or suggestions would be appriciated

Regards,

Mick

 

[The_Lhc]

Could you elaborate on "terrible" a bit? It's not giving people much to go on.

 

[bonjov]

Sorry - tinny, flat not much depth, distant etc

 

[JJ]

Your Onkyo is an av receiver. It's primary job is home cinema.

You need a 2 channel stereo amplifier. Simple.

No AV receiver will ever match a dedicated stereo amp.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The 09 range were vastly improved for music over older Onkyo models - it could be a setting issue. Are the front left and right speakers set to large or small?

 

[bonjov]

Thanks for the replies

There is no small or large setting - only normal or bi-amp.

As regards to buying a dedicated stereo amp - if I was truly anal about it -maybes

but this amplifier should play decent stereo with ease.

Like I said my old yamaha amp played stereo no problem.

 

[ear]

I'd change the speakers first.

 

[Frank Harvey]

There is no small or large setting - only normal or bi-amp.

There will be settings for small or large for all of the speakers. If you haven't found the section of the menu that changes basics like this, then I'm all the more convinced your problem is a set up issue.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

Mick,

I don't know if TX-NR709 is same or better spec than the TX-NR609 which I have owned for almost 18 months. I bought it because I thought it could play 192Khz sampled audio. On playing back CD and comparing the SQ against a vintage Pioneer 2ch amplifier, I found the TX-NR609 to sound quite wooly. After a lot of playing around with the speaker & input setting, I have found the SQ to be very good.

I have ripped most of my CDs to FLAC and some Hi-res downloaded tracks on my laptop and playing them all through the receiver DLNA, I am very satisfied. I gave up playing via USB as it never measured up to the SQ.

It does not play 192Khz audio but does well up to 96khz audio.

I hope this helps.

William

 

[Andrew Everard]

bonjov,

Had an email from Onkyo, which is concerned about the problems you've been having. Are you happy for me to pass on your email address to the company so it can investigate further?

 

[Native_bon]

I dnt think the problem you are having has got anything to do with AV AMP for music compared to a two channel amp for music. Your amp may just not be good at doin 2 channel music.. Some AV AMPs are very good at two channel music. DO 2 channel amps sound better with music?... Yes.. But i Use AV Amp for music cause i dnt think the difference in sound quality is really much to worry about.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I have the US model TX-NR707 bought last Chrimbo for the knock-down price of just 500 bucks. Stereo sound isn't brilliant but I think in my case that may be as much to do with the Klipsch Reference 42 speakers (only 4-inch cones) as much as the receiver.

That having been said, I echo everyone else's comments that sourround sound receivers are built first and foremost for surround sound AV with stereo playback as a legacy offering as much as anything else. In the past I've usually hooked up the line out outlets from the receivers to the Aux channel inputs on my stereo amplifier and used my stereo to drive the front speakers, even when watching DVDs and Blurays. It makes using the set-up a little bit more tricky - the kids can do it but the wife can't - but at least that way I don't have to have two pairs of front speakers and I get decent stereo and surround sound.

 

[jonathanRD]

I have the TX-NR609 hooked up to MA BX2's - these sit next to my Mission/Rega HiFi in the same room - so it it easy to compare directly. Whilst my HiFi sounds a lot better, clearer, good soundstage, more engaging, I would not describe the sound from the 609 as terrible. It's an 'enveloping' sound in surround-sound mode, and a little clearer and focused using the Pure Audio mode.

I mainly use the 609 in music terms for listening to Internet radio and some streaming - in both cases the sound is fine and certainly not terrible - as others have suggested - maybe a set up issue? I've not really done much with the set up as it sounded fine almost straight out of the box.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

bonjov,

I would like to add a bit more to what I said in my previous post.

Probably you have already done this, but if not, you could try this very basic first time setup.

1. Menu>Speakersetup>Speaker Configuration>Suwoofer NO, Cnntre NONE, Surround NONE. This leaves Front Full Band. This should give you good 2ch stereo. I cannot differentiate any SQ between a CD track played on Cambridge Audio 650BD or the same track ripped to FLAC played via the Receiver DLNA.

My fronts are IMF TLS80 MkII Transmission Line speakers and lows go down to 20 Hz and highs beyond audibility and are quite revealing.

William

 

[MajorFubar]

I'd change the speakers first.

Would be interesting to know why you feel they're the weak link when he's clearly happy with their sound when they're being driven by what he feels his his older-but-better Yamaha amp.

 

[bonjov]

FYI

As a test I replaced the Onkyo with the old Yamaha amp and Voilà, Stereo. Aslo 6 channel sound at the press of a button (for my sacds).

Note no fancy setting up or scrolloing through sub menus - straight out of the box.

All amps should sound at least 90% without any fiddling about.

So for replacing the speakers - no comment

As for passing my email onto Onkyo - yes please (thanks Andrew)

As for its a setting issue - probably right - Ill have another go, but Im sure I tried wtaylorbasil's suggestion.

As for large/small speaker settings please download the manual and find this setting :^)

I also appreciate that stereo amps would sound better than AV amps but the Yamaha amp simply sounds miles better than the Onkyo playing stereo.

Also the PL II music setting (3.1) on the Onkyo is a vast improvemnent over the stereo setting. But it aint stereo ie 2 speakers

PS I havent gave up on the onkyo yet BTW

 

[Andrew Everard]

As for passing my email onto Onkyo - yes please (thanks Andrew)

Done

 

[wtaylorbasil]

Hi Andrew,

Would you please pass on my email to Onkyo as you have for bonjov as you would have greater credibility to ask the question.

I have TX-NR609 and it does not play 192Khz/24 bit eithe fed via USB input or DLNA.

Is it not capable of playing that resolution or is there another reason.

I hope bonjov will share the info with us.

Regards

William

 

[Andrew Everard]

Would you please pass on my email to Onkyo as you have for bonjov...

Done, but from the manual the answer is that the 609 'only' supports files at up to 96kHz. See page 77.

EDIT It will however play two-channel and multichannel LPCM 192kHz/24-bit signals (up to 7.1 channels) when they're delivered via HDMI.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

Thank you Andrew

William

 

[Oldboy]

bonjov,

To select between large speakers (full band) and small speakers (with crossover) on your Onkyo 709 do this:

In the menu go to 2. Speaker Setup then select 2. Speaker Configuration from the sub menu, here you will see from top to bottom Subwoofer, Front, Center, Surround. Select Front and scroll left until the Hz setting goes to Full Band. You have now selected the option for Full band to just the front speakers but it is advisable to only use this for floorstander speakers that can cope with the full range.

By all means give it a go and see if it helps your stereo sound issue though, oh and by the way I own the 609 and the menus are identical so I know this is how you select between large and small speakers. When on the Speaker Configuration menu the text at the bottom shows the following "For tower speakers, set to Full-Band. For small speaker, set crossover depend on size of the speaker"

Hope that clears that up.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

>>Select Front and scroll left until the Hz setting goes to Full Band.<<

On my post #13, I failed to specifically mention to set the Front speakers to Full band as I always keep my floor standing speakers at Full band. Good point.

 

[Oldboy]

>>Select Front and scroll left until the Hz setting goes to Full Band.<<

On my post #13, I failed to specifically mention to set the Front speakers to Full band as I always keep my floor standing speakers at Full band. Good point.

I did read your post and indeed the whole thread but thought it was worthwhile setting it out in laymans terms as the OP seemed to be struggling to find the option to change to full band speaker settings.

Agreed RE keeping floorstanders at full band, my Dali Zensor 5 fronts definately sound better when set up this way and with surround sound it really helps create a wide and spacious surround field, I only use stereo for tv viewing now as I have a stereo amp and CD player integrated into my setup for music with a Beresford TC-7220 MKII switcher to switch between amps and speakers.

I certainly wouldn't describe the stereo sound from my 609 as terrible and even from memory when I was forced to use the amp for music it was never awful but obviously bettered by even a modest stereo amp like my Marantz PM6004.

 

[nedalex2405]

Hi Bonjov, couldn't bear any more, so here it is:

1. Make sure your connections are secure, not hanging lose on the AVR and speakers

2. Oldboy is right and David wrong. For large/full band, Settings > 2. Speaker Configuration, change to full band

3. For stereo listening, disable Audessey equaliser. Change to manual equaliser (you'll have to customise this. Get a template from iTunes or any other good sources)

4. Disable Dynamic Volume and Dynamic Equaliser (Settings > 4. )

5. Disable THX settings (Settings > 6. )

6. Disable BGC (Settings > 6. )

7. Disengage analogue subwoofer (Settings > 3. Audio ... > )

I use the TX-NR1007, so I believe the setting menu is almost the same. The manual equaliser makes a lot of difference. Let me know how it goes.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

oldboy,

I like the good attitude of the Forum members-always trying to help the best way possible, without preaching.

I too have a Beresford TC-7220 on my setup to switch between TX-NR609 Receiver and Pioneer SA9100- 2ch amplifier. Unfortunately the two are separated about 10 feet from one another as one stereo rack would have been too high-wife did not like it as it is the sitting room. I do not know to insert pics here so I have given the link to another Forum where you can see my hook-up and understand what I mean. So my left side is my Digital setup and Analogue setup on the right. I can dream of a dedicated "Listening" room!!

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=6679083#post6679083

Regards